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Author Topic: [confirmed] SCAMMER: user Leon  (Read 12891 times)
haploid23
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July 24, 2011, 07:34:53 AM
 #141

‘Icy-’ on bitcoin forums and twoplustwo.com forums
‘Chris8Lunch’ @yahoo.com @hotmail.com emails
‘Chris8lunch’ banned from talkgold.com forums for scamming
‘Chris Phillips’

Profiles:
http://www.talkgold.com/forum/member.php?u=16874
http://www.myspace.com/icybluehell
http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?action=profile;u=20533
http://www.whitepages.com/name/Christopher-M-Phillips/Rome-GA/4i986f1

Evidence:
SS from ‘icy-’
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/4310/proofck.png

http://florida.arrests.org/Arrests/Christopher_Phillips_5464490/
looks like hes scamming to feed his drug habit

i don't know how you manage to find all this info on him, but thank you. i'll try to use this to maybe call his local authorities. so far there has been 9 people that said they have been scammed by this guy. if you also have been scammed by him and do not wish it to be public, then please PM me instead.

any of you got your money back yet? who paid through dwolla? i requested his dwolla account to be locked, but dwolla declined that request until another person filed a dispute against him on dwolla. i'm not sure who that person was, but his account is now suspended, so if you paid through dwolla, please file a dispute. i think even if you paid with BTC, try to file a dispute through dwolla anyways because he converted that BTC to dollars and moved it into dwolla. if he scammed you by BTC, you MIGHT be able to get your money back, but in dollars instead of BTC, so try to file a dispute anyways.

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Viceroy
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July 24, 2011, 05:02:29 PM
 #142

If you look at the imageshack screenshot it appears he also plays warcraft, fwiw.

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July 24, 2011, 06:40:02 PM
 #143

It never fails. Whenever I am bored, I come here and start reading. Always great entertainment. We can even see his mugshot. Keep up the good work guys.

so why was it that we didn't have rating system?
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July 26, 2011, 03:15:21 PM
 #144

First I want to say that I respect your escrow service and I believe in fair competition in this field cause we only want to protect bitcoins users from fraudulent people cause we believe in bitcoin. (in fact I'm sure for my case, and I do believe that it's your case too)

No, actually in my experience, donation escrow is perfect. With arbitration type escrow, the buyer can choose to screw the seller and claim the item is no good, and get money back. Also, for digital goods, there's no way for seller to prove he has delivered the item. Also fraudulent sellers can just ship empty box to the buyer with tracking number to fool arbitration.

It always depend on how escrow service manage the arbitration process. Here's the rules my escrow force to do once there's a dispute before going to arbitration process:

Step 4: Buyer Rejects the Merchandise
When the Buyer clicks on the dispute button the Buyer confirm that he didn't accept the merchandise, Buyer must inform the Seller that the Buyer has rejected the merchandise.

The Buyer has 7 days to ship the merchandise to the Seller's after they reject the merchandise or he automatically loose the dispute and bitcoins goes to the Seller address listed at BTCrow.com. The Buyer is responsible for paying the return shipping/insurance costs.

After the Buyer has shipped the merchandise, they must sign in to BTCrow.com and enter the shipping company and tracking information into the resolution center. Buyer must inform the Seller indicating that the merchandise has been shipped.

Upon delivery of the shipment, the Seller must accept or reject the returned merchandise within 5 days or he will loose the dispute and bitcoins, minus escrow fee, goes to the Buyer's address listed at BTCrow.com.

The Seller Accepts the Returned Merchandise
If the Seller accept the merchandise, or fails to accept or reject during the 5 days upon delivery, the Seller will have accepted the returned merchandise and bitcoins, minus escrow fee, goes to the Buyer's address listed at BTCrow.com.

The Seller Rejects the Returned Merchandise
If the Seller rejects the merchandise, the Seller must inform the Buyer via the Resolution Center indicating the decision to reject the returned merchandise. The transaction will be considered to be in mediation by BTCrow.com.

BTCrow.com will hold the funds in escrow until the dispute is resolved. BTCrow.com does not assist in dispute resolution. The Buyer and Seller are to come to a mutual agreement of terms within 30 days or start the arbitration process within 60 days.



In this case the buyer need to send back the package to the seller and the seller must confirm the package. If he reject the package, they must come to a mutual agreement. If after 30 days party didn't conclude an agreement then BTCrow start the arbitration process. In those case we only rely on proof and nothing else.

You still think the seller can ship an empty box or the inverse ? yeah you're right but that's why once buyer and seller first initiate a transaction the buyer must ask the seller to do a signature base package, so in this case if the buyer receive the package he have to verify the box and sign if he accept, or do not sign and the package will return to the seller. In that case it is very easy for the arbitration process (if people come to use it) to know exactly what's happen to he package.


The next thing will be integration of reshipping service: Buyer make escrow > Seller ship package to escrow > Escrow verify package > Escrow reship package to Buyer > Buyer receive package > Buyer release the funds.

So in this case will cost a lot more to the buyer but it will be strongly suggested for huge transactions.

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July 26, 2011, 08:21:49 PM
 #145

I agree with everything Inaba has said. As a buyer I would not trust a donation escrow, as I am out bitcoins whether transaction goes through or not. Way to much risk there. Heatware should be implemented in every transaction. There is always going to be risk in any transaction, yes an escrow can try to fully account for all angles but I imagine the fee will be hefty. The whole benefit of bitcoins is the no transaction fee, no disputations, the anonymity of it all. Escrow service for bitcoin trading is a good idea but I would run from donation type escrow services(I need to be assured that if the deal goes south, I can get my bitcoins back). Till then, I will only deal with someone with some reputable Heat(Linked my limited heat).
Do NOT use donation escrow services.  These are the stupidest idea I've ever seen implemented in an escrow service. 

Escrow is meant to protect both parties.  An escrow service that protects only one party is effectively not really an escrow service, and an "escrow" service that sends the money to a "donation" in the event of a default is just asking for all sorts of trouble.  I would never, ever, ever agree to a donation escrow as a buyer.  Donation escrows are only harmful to the process, they do not provide any benefit.  There is no risk to the scammer by using donation escrow or not using it - either way they won't get the money, but if they do use it, at the very least they can use it to fuck you so you don't get your money back in the event of a default.  On top of that, they can also be used as a harassment tool even if someone isn't a scammer in the sense of them trying to take your money.

An escrow service requires an arbitration process.  Any escrow service without an arbitration process is nothing more than "Hey Bob, will you hold my wad of cash for a few days?"  And you don't know Bob.  And Bob might give your money to the Red Cross if the seller tells him to.

As far as feedback/ratings go, there's already a site, it's called HEATWARE.  I use it on here as well as other forums.  It should be the standard for here, just like it is at so many other For Sale forums around the world.



Donation style escrow is more like paying 80 cents for insurance at the post office than a full service escrow.

It's nothing like 80 cents for insurance at the post office.  It's not even kind of like it.  It's not even vaguely related to it.  See the rest of my post below:

kokojie & kgo:

I am finding it really difficult to believe you two are so deluded or naive to think that people won't do stuff to fuck with other people just for the hell of it (or for the lulz as the case may be).  Just because you've annoyed me in this post, I am going to create a fake account and sell you something through a donation escrow when you least expect it.

Quote
No, actually in my experience, donation escrow is perfect. With arbitration type escrow, the buyer can choose to screw the seller and claim the item is no good, and get money back. Also, for digital goods, there's no way for seller to prove he has delivered the item. Also fraudulent sellers can just ship empty box to the buyer with tracking number to fool arbitration (I have seen this fraud on ebay/paypal many times, but ebay has a reputation system to keep this low).

Your experience must be exceptionally limited then.  There is nothing good about a donation escrow.  It's a bastardization of the escrow process that screws all parties.  I also have serious questions as to whether or not a given escrow service would even send the money to the donation service listed, but that's another discussion entirely.  There is nothing a donation escrow service offers that is of value to anyone except the escrow operator.  In a defaulted situation, if the money doesn't go back to the seller, the whole transaction is pointless;  The seller is out their goods and the buyer is out their money.  Yes, the buyer might get the dubious "satisfaction" of knowing that the seller does not get any money, but this fallacy comes at the cost of allowing literally anyone to screw with any seller at any time with no reprecussions at all.  Again, if you are of the belief that people won't do that just for the hell of it and especially to exact some sort of revenge on someone, you are deluding yourselves.

Quote
Basically, if there's arbitration, there will be incentive for both buyer and seller to get creative and screw over the other guy. With donation escrow, there is no such thing. Seller has zero incentive to screw over the buyer as if the buyer is unhappy, seller does not get any money. Buyer also has zero incentive to screw over the seller, as buyer not getting money back either way, and he'd be really stupid to intentionally piss off someone that knows his name and address.

And this braindead donation escrow eliminates this how?  It doesn't, it just provides yet MORE opportunity to get creative to screw over someone with zero reprecussions.  Not only does it not solve a problem, it creates another one in the process.  The buyer could have every reason to screw over the seller - there is not "zero" reason.

Quote
There's no risk to a scammer without a donation escrow anyway, since pretty much by definition they have nothing to lose.  What the escrow service does is remove the incentive to scam somebody, not remove the non-existant risk to the scammer.  The scammer has no reason to invest time setting up a con because the net return is a negative.  They use a resource, their time, and if there's no possible way to profit, they've lost out.  Hence they'll move on to the next potential victim, or try to pester you into not using escrow for some BS reason, and give up when you refuse to budge.

I agree, there is no risk to the scammer without an escrow service.  There is also no risk to the scammer WITH a donation escrow service.  The donation escrow service adds NOTHING to the process and adds one additional avenue of harassment.  That was my original point - it doesn't add anything except more problems.  A monetary return is not always the incentive or goal of a scammer/harassment/forthelulz person.

Quote
No.  The person who gives the cash to Bob determines if it goes to the Red Cross.  The more comparable scenario is giving money to Bob, and saying, "If you don't here from me in a few days, burn that money, flush it down the toilet, but whatever you do, don't give it to that jackass."  The seller can not force a charity release and somehow steal my money.

Now you are contradicting yourself.  Either a donation escrow service enforces the "if in default, it goes to charity" or it does not.  If it does not, it doesn't fulfill it's design parameters.  If it does, then the buyer can easily force it by reporting it in default.  Your scenario is nothing like an escrow donation service.  Escrow donation is literally "Hey Bob, hold my money.  If you hear ANYTHING but 'Give him this money', throw it away and burn it."  So then Jim can say "Hey Bob, fuck off." and poof there goes your money.  That's the fallacy and ridiculousness of escrow donation.  Donation can be forced (by either party, but more importantly by the person buying) putting the control of the transaction in the buyer's hands when it should be in neither hands - that is the point of escrow.

Quote
The number of people who would just do that to be an a-hole are far less than the number of scammers out there.

Also, if the deal falls apart for legitimate reasons, and both people are on the same side, you can recover your bitcoins safely.  This is covered in my FAQ.

Far more than you are apparently aware of.  

As far as your second sentence in that quote, then you are arbitrating at that point and your arguments for a donation escrow fall completely apart (which they were already in shreds to begin with).  If the deal can be reversed due to certain conditions, then that is a form of arbitration.  Crude and rudimentary, but none the less that's what it is.

Quote
I don't understand how a donation based escrow could be used as a harassment tool.  The only thing I could think is that someone can keep on bugging you to release the coins.  But they could do the same thing without the escrow service, by bugging you to send coins.  Could you elaborate?

Really?  You can't imagine this scenario off the top of your head:

You've annoyed me somehow or I just pick you at random to fuck with.  I setup a fake account and offer to sell something I know you'll be interested in at an attractive price.  I deny all other offers privately and offer to sell to you for 25 BTC but I demand that you use an escrow service... but to show I'm magnanimous I offer to let you use the donation based escrow.  I tell you "Hey, to prove I'm not a scammer you can set it to donation so I won't get anything if I screw you." You think "Hey, that's cool, here  Mr. Donation Escrow, is my hard earned 25 BTC."

Now you're out 25 BTC and I dislike you because you've annoyed me.  I have to do nothing further.  I just cost you 25 BTC and have to do nothing but create a fake account and offer a product at an attractive price.

Now expand this scenario with someone how wants to fuck with a group of people... instead of taking just your offer, I can take several offers and screw 3 or 4 or more people out of their money, thereby undermining confidence in BTC.  All because there's a donation based escrow.

Quote
For a scammer to spend the time to write up the sale, risk being caught, and also might have to spend some time develop a seemingly reputable account, and then after all that get ZERO profit, the scammer has to be a extremely stupid scammer that likes to waste time.

Quote
In my opinion, it's not at all likely.  Most people don't have an incentive to screw you over in this situation.  Yes, there might be a crazy person or a sicko who gets some thrill by doing so, or some wacko who convinces himself somehow you cheated him and wants to get revenge, but the likelihood of dealing with one of these people is much, much lower than the likelihood of dealing with a scammer.  At least in my opinion.

I have two words for you:  4chan - /b/

And that's just one example.

I was, of course, lying at the top of the post about creating a fake account to sell you something.  Or was I?  You will never know and now you'll question every transaction you make through a donation escrow because it MIGHT be me just fucking with you because you've annoyed me.  You'll eventually be lulled into a false sense of security when nothing happens in the next month or two, but then BAM.  Or maybe it'll happen on your next transaction.  Am I serious?



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July 26, 2011, 08:41:56 PM
 #146

I agree with everything Inaba has said. As a buyer I would not trust a donation escrow, as I am out bitcoins whether transaction goes through or not. Way to much risk there. Heatware should be implemented in every transaction. There is always going to be risk in any transaction, yes an escrow can try to fully account for all angles but I imagine the fee will be hefty. The whole benefit of bitcoins is the no transaction fee, no disputations, the anonymity of it all. Escrow service for bitcoin trading is a good idea but I would run from donation type escrow services(I need to be assured that if the deal goes south, I can get my bitcoins back). Till then, I will only deal with someone with some reputable Heat(Linked my limited heat).

I understand where you're coming from. For bitcoin "feedback system" there's 2 site (that I know, maybe there's other):

http://www.bitcoinsreview.com and http://betterbitcoinbureau.info

At BTCrow.com we also offer arbitration process, read the how-to for more information. As it protect both buyer and seller in a transaction as explained in my previous post.

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July 26, 2011, 09:38:10 PM
 #147

‘Icy-’ on bitcoin forums and twoplustwo.com forums
‘Chris8Lunch’ @yahoo.com @hotmail.com emails
‘Chris8lunch’ banned from talkgold.com forums for scamming
‘Chris Phillips’

Profiles:
http://www.talkgold.com/forum/member.php?u=16874
http://www.myspace.com/icybluehell
http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?action=profile;u=20533
http://www.whitepages.com/name/Christopher-M-Phillips/Rome-GA/4i986f1

Evidence:
SS from ‘icy-’
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/4310/proofck.png

http://florida.arrests.org/Arrests/Christopher_Phillips_5464490/
looks like hes scamming to feed his drug habit

i don't know how you manage to find all this info on him, but thank you. i'll try to use this to maybe call his local authorities. so far there has been 9 people that said they have been scammed by this guy. if you also have been scammed by him and do not wish it to be public, then please PM me instead.

any of you got your money back yet? who paid through dwolla? i requested his dwolla account to be locked, but dwolla declined that request until another person filed a dispute against him on dwolla. i'm not sure who that person was, but his account is now suspended, so if you paid through dwolla, please file a dispute. i think even if you paid with BTC, try to file a dispute through dwolla anyways because he converted that BTC to dollars and moved it into dwolla. if he scammed you by BTC, you MIGHT be able to get your money back, but in dollars instead of BTC, so try to file a dispute anyways.

This guy moves around a lot.  Info I'm getting from searching has him in Rome, GA.  Gimme a few mins and I can probably find a phone # for you.

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July 27, 2011, 02:24:19 PM
 #148

It always depend on how escrow service manage the arbitration process. Here's the rules my escrow force to do once there's a dispute before going to arbitration process:

First, this is a thread about LEON, not your escrow service.
Second, stop trolling for customers in threads you didn't start.
Third, stop posting in unrelated forums to sell your service, you spammer.
Fourth, if I were going to use an escrow service I wouldn't use one owned by a spamming troll.
* Viceroy looks crossly at Btcrow
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July 27, 2011, 02:39:55 PM
 #149

It always depend on how escrow service manage the arbitration process. Here's the rules my escrow force to do once there's a dispute before going to arbitration process:

First, this is a thread about LEON, not your escrow service.
Second, stop trolling for customers in threads you didn't start.
Third, stop posting in unrelated forums to sell your service, you spammer.
Fourth, if I were going to use an escrow service I wouldn't use one owned by a spamming troll.
* Viceroy looks crossly at Btcrow


If you look at post before me you can see that I didn't initiate the escrow conversation and that people actually wanted to have escrow list or wanted to know a solution to not being scammed by others like LEON. I do only post on forums / thread that require people take a look at a protection service for their transactions.

For the point fourth, you should know that if you don,t wanna use our service is up to you but at least choose an escrow service for your bitcoin transactions.

I seriously think that the word troll is over abused here and is too easy to say once you disagree with people.

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July 27, 2011, 02:53:25 PM
 #150

IMHO BTCrow's posts in this thread are perfectly appropriate. I learned a thing or two in them.

Feel like investing in a Miner?:
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=30044.msg377773#msg377773
A soup to nuts newbee system for a secure, portable USB wallet (free instructions):
NoobHowTo: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=27088.msg341387#msg341387
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July 27, 2011, 04:15:50 PM
 #151

IMHO BTCrow's posts in this thread are perfectly appropriate. I learned a thing or two in them.

agreed- trolls will be trolls. good post

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my portfoio: http://windowsofamind.com
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July 27, 2011, 04:20:44 PM
 #152

someone close this damn thread already.

FREE 100 GME if you post your Cryptsy TradeKey on the official GameCoinTalk forums

http://www.gamecointalk.org/index.php?topic=7.msg9#new
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July 27, 2011, 04:31:33 PM
 #153

someone close this damn thread already.

Just delete your posts from it and ignore it.

Feel like investing in a Miner?:
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=30044.msg377773#msg377773
A soup to nuts newbee system for a secure, portable USB wallet (free instructions):
NoobHowTo: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=27088.msg341387#msg341387
Viceroy
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July 27, 2011, 04:50:07 PM
 #154

Leon, not escrow... go stat another thread.
people came here looking for info on Leon.
NOT ESCROW SERVICES.



someone close this damn thread already.

that.


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July 27, 2011, 05:17:27 PM
 #155

Leon, not escrow... go stat another thread.
people came here looking for info on Leon.
NOT ESCROW SERVICES.



someone close this damn thread already.

that.




this

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July 27, 2011, 05:21:12 PM
 #156

Leon, not escrow... go stat another thread.
people came here looking for info on Leon.
NOT ESCROW SERVICES.

page 6 / 7 was full of questions regarding escrow system to AVOID people such as leon, the only thing I told was to clearly say that such services already exists, I gave feedback sites that can be used to establish a trust and yes I gave my escrow service in order to help people avoid to write that kinda thread in future.

I didn't come saying:
hey link link use this escrow, link link, best of all link link SPAM << this is spam which I clearly didn't do.

btw this will be my last reply to your comment cause I feel that you didn't seems to understand what I mean.
In the meantime, have a good day, may the sun shine on you and put a smile on your face Smiley.

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July 28, 2011, 01:25:41 AM
 #157

I sold Haploid 6 ATI's so far, and he seems genuine if not apparently a little too trusting.

I see why he was so enthusiastic about being in the same city as me, with the ability to inspect his purchase.

Let's not forget that local exchange, whether it be in dollar, or in Bitcoin, is always much safer than sending strangers your money for products and services unseen.

Think local, act global.

-Jon

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July 28, 2011, 02:54:12 AM
 #158

I'm with Inaba on this as well.  I'd never use a donation "escrow" service as it just makes no sense to me.   There's definitely call for a proper, reasonable Escrow service around these parts though, so whoever gets a fair one set up should do fairly well.  I'd certainly use it.
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August 11, 2011, 03:38:19 AM
 #159

Well guys looks like leon's gonna get a random transaction of 330$ from his bank as I get this back from my dwolla dispute I hope he gets over drafted that faggot.

Me
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So when can i get my money back?

Dwolla's Response
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Dwolla Support
AUG 10, 2011  |  07:06AM CDT
*****,
You can expect to see the funds in your Dwolla account in the next 24-48 hours.

Best regards!

Everyone Loves Donations: 1PEVhtmnBqiN8rYXLHhtUWAB6q9X63Zm9D
Steam Profile: http://steamcommunity.com/id/Trini8ed
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August 11, 2011, 05:39:46 AM
 #160

I forgot to post. I also got my money back. Feel bad for the guy who sent coins. Thats tough!
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