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Author Topic: bitcoinlivebets.com stealing all my winnings 30 BTC  (Read 14383 times)
sbrzol
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September 23, 2013, 11:57:42 AM
 #1


briefly:  they claim i broke their rules.     
-one of the rule they refer was added after i registered (29.08.2013),(without any customer notification/confirmation)   you can check google web cache to this page : http://bitcoinlivebets.com/index.php?action=agb
-the other rule for multiple accounts ,   i lost both my account password and email address password, so i cant recover it, so i had to create a new account and used only the new one, never made multiple/duplicate bets ,( i cannot access to the lost account) ,  i told this to bicoinlivebets, refer to other bookmakers behavior in such cases (lost account and new account) but 2 days left and i havent got any answer (my only fault is not to contact them when i create this new account, and bitcoinlivebets think it should cost me 30 BTC, 3500$ )

so i decide to share all about this issue to everybody on this forum
and please help me, give me bitcoin/betting links/sites/forums , where to share

and here is the whole story: 

i made 2 withdrawals 12 BTC and 20.89 BTC  four and five days ago.
 After about 30 hours from my first withdrawal i wrote a support ticket , because i did not get my btc.
”more than 1 day left from my withdrawal , it is time to send it to my address (both)”

”Sorry for the delay. We just sent you the Bitcoins.”

but i got 1.2 and 2.089 BTC only, without any other comment, so only 10%
and they added a  false bet to my accounthistory (perhaps to zero my account balance)
Total number of games 20.5 Romeo, Caroline - Szupper, Marlies   o   -147
Stake: 29,601000 BTC (Bet by slip 29,601000 BTC), Possible winnings: 0,000000 BTC

i asked them about this false bet and why i got only 10% of my btc

the answer:

"please note you earned with your first account already 16 BTC with bets which we offered accidently and no other bookmaker offered. You saw, that we paid you immediately this amount instead of voiding these bets (we could do that according to our Terms but we didnt).
However, this time we are not able to pay more than the amounts of 1.2 and 2.089 BTC you apparently requested, paid out yesterday both.

Note that due to our General Terms and Conditions it is not allowed to hold multiple accounts like you did.
It is also not allowed to crawl the pages like you did.
You accepted, but broke the rules."

I contacted them again :

"i think it is my and your interest to solve this issue.
First of all, i never made any duplicated/multiple bets, check it please, I moved another flat and i lost my password for this site and the password for my email address, so it was impossible to recover it and use it.
i had to create another account. (you should consider multiple accounts without multipe bets equal to single account, because the goal to forbid multiple accounts is to forbid multiple bets on the same market, not to get around the stake limit, i never did, you can check it)
okey it is my fault not to contact you at this time and say that i lost my account and could i create another one. sorry for that

if you know all what you say why are you waiting so far? i do not understand

(in ie8 the support answer cannot be opened )

i was the first who give you trust on bitcointalk.org

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:wkd1xD4d4b4J:bitcoinlivebets.com/index.php%3Faction%3Dagb+&cd=1
It is a snapshot of the page as it appeared on 11 Sep 2013 13:28:58 GM
”It is not allowed to use the site with tools which refresh it automatically (for example to crawl the odds).”
so you add this new rule after i registered, and i never get any notification/email that your rules changed, and you never asked your customers to accept the new rules. and after all of you trying to refer this rule.

- you can try to forbid to crawl(Huh) your page but earlier betway.com tried to do similiar think, but removed it later not to losing its gambling license

https://www.bookmakersreview.com/bookmaker-news/betway-removes-terms-targeting-matched-bettors-and-arbers/44248

" Earlier last week, at the end of a review of the sportsbook rules, the Maltese bookmaker decided to remove the infamous rule and released the following official statement we publish in full:
"During early 2009, a paragraph was added to our terms and conditions that specifically disallowed matched betting and arbitrage betting. ""


" However, if the creation of multiple accounts is seen to be an honest mistake (for example you forgot your password and tried to create a new account rather than contacting support for assistance) then we will close the players duplicate account and transfer any balances to their original account at no additional charge."

i admit to make a mistake not to contacting to you when make a new account, but please you do not make a bigger mistake to hold back my BTC.

so my only fault is not to contact you when i lost my accout password (and email) and made a new account, but never placed any multiple/duplicate bet. and you think it should cost me 30 BTC about 3500 $
"

2 days left but no answer,  i asked them 3 hours ago again when will they answer, but still no answer
(in their gambling topic there is an answer from yesterday so they read my answers/tickets)



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1511102764
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sbrzol
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September 23, 2013, 11:58:25 AM
 #2

i will come up with another post about this site if this issue wont be resolved soon

bitcoinlivebets can say at any time that you ”crawl” their site and so break their rules , and hold back all your winnings
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September 23, 2013, 01:28:32 PM
 #3

You should have read the ToS before signing up and depositing coins.
sbrzol
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September 23, 2013, 01:31:33 PM
 #4

You should have read the ToS before signing up and depositing coins.

they should have not refer such rules that they added before they answer my ticket ,after my registration,  that i have never accepted

"It is not allowed to use the site with tools which refresh it automatically (for example to crawl the odds)."


and try to understand this rule , this rule is about multiple persons (Huh?) ,  not multiple accoun

"Membership is free. Accounts may only be created for natural persons and may not be used by multiple persons or for commercial use."
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September 23, 2013, 02:30:16 PM
 #5

I have not read the complaint or even received one from sbrzol yet so this is a simple assumption response. If the player wasn't banned for winning previously or abusing some form of new player promotion, bitcoinlivebets will probably have a hard time convincing me or others that they have a legitimate reason for withholding the players winning bitcoins. When a bet is accepted it should stand unless a bad line was accidentally published or presented as an obvious error. It would appear the company basically "free rolled" him knowing they wasn't going to pay him if his bets happen to win.


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September 23, 2013, 02:39:37 PM
 #6

some gambling and dice games have problem like these they don't want to pay just want to have all in pocket

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September 23, 2013, 03:15:38 PM
 #7

We didn't banish this user after we found the second account or the crawling actions. We just alludet, that we don't allow it in general. So the user could and can bet, deposit and withdrawl all the time.

We paid the exactly requested amount.

https://blockchain.info/de/tx/0954400b3b0a4d90063c2fc14e822a371dd58f5e0425cc2f5d1839187694eb06
https://blockchain.info/de/tx/a83779b04c91a6803b3d86bdd1378eeaee0834c2efe30ccb45a50ffc5aebd21b
By the way, we paid also your 26 BTC you requested with your first account.

I still don't get what is exactly the problem. It seems like that the user is now saying, he didn't add following bet to his account:


I hope it is okay to post your bet slips after you started this thread so I can defend our service a little bit. Of course I can remove it or post your transaction logs if you allow it.

After his lose of this bet slip, he threated us on several support tickets to pay the full amount he lost or he will publish something:
 
Quote
if i dont get my withdrawal i think your site will ...
(thus was it written)

Our site is after a lot of work more worth than I can allow to get a bad reputation by holding back some btc or similar things. We try to continue to offer a reliable service with honest methods. We expect honesty on the user side, too.

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September 23, 2013, 03:28:45 PM
 #8

I hope problem is solved sbrzol. I really like this site, I know they work hard. I hope they will be here forever.
sbrzol
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September 23, 2013, 05:25:30 PM
 #9

We didn't banish this user after we found the second account or the crawling actions. We just alludet, that we don't allow it in general. So the user could and can bet, deposit and withdrawl all the time.

We paid the exactly requested amount.

https://blockchain.info/de/tx/0954400b3b0a4d90063c2fc14e822a371dd58f5e0425cc2f5d1839187694eb06
https://blockchain.info/de/tx/a83779b04c91a6803b3d86bdd1378eeaee0834c2efe30ccb45a50ffc5aebd21b
By the way, we paid also your 26 BTC you requested with your first account.

I still don't get what is exactly the problem. It seems like that the user is now saying, he didn't add following bet to his account:


I hope it is okay to post your bet slips after you started this thread so I can defend our service a little bit. Of course I can remove it or post your transaction logs if you allow it.

After his lose of this bet slip, he threated us on several support tickets to pay the full amount he lost or he will publish something:
 
Quote
if i dont get my withdrawal i think your site will ...
(thus was it written)

Our site is after a lot of work more worth than I can allow to get a bad reputation by holding back some btc or similar things. We try to continue to offer a reliable service with honest methods. We expect honesty on the user side, too.


you paid out only 10% of my withdrawal     i requested 12 BTC and 20.89 BTC  

max bet is only 3 BTC , so it is imposibble to bet 29,601 BTC (with all my account balance amount) , you are lying again , or you have a very big bug in your site engine

i will share you all my account histroy , i made screenshots

"Minimum bet: 0.001 BTC, maximum bet 3 BTC per bet combination"

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September 23, 2013, 05:36:58 PM
 #10

"By the way, we paid also your 26 BTC you requested with your first account."

of course you paid , beacuse if a player wins and withdraw their winnings it is normal that sportsbookmakers pay them out
sbrzol
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September 23, 2013, 05:46:53 PM
 #11

of corse you can look at the timestamps on my false withdrawals (decreased only 10%) and the false bet
after i will share all my account histroy you could count my account balance

bitcoinlivebets says that i withdrawed  1.2  BTC  then placed a bet with  29,601 BTC  (but only 3 BTC is the max) and after it made another withdrawal 2.089 BTC  ,
(betting amount is about (1000%)  10 times more of the withdrawal amout )

and they always charged my withdrawals with some fee , but in this time i could get the whole amont 

i will share you all earlier withdrawals

sbrzol
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September 23, 2013, 05:57:06 PM
 #12

15 minutes ago  on their homepage :

"Minimum bet: 0.001 BTC, maximum bet 3 BTC per bet combination"

now :

" Minimum bet: 0.001 BTC"
BitcoinLiveBets.com
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September 23, 2013, 06:05:28 PM
 #13

15 minutes ago  on their homepage :

"Minimum bet: 0.001 BTC, maximum bet 3 BTC per bet combination"

now :

" Minimum bet: 0.001 BTC"
Sure, after you told us that this information in the english translation is old. Thank you for that. After user requests, we increased our maximum bet amount on 9/17/2013 for most bet types and pre match bets.
If your bet amount was just a literal error why didn't you tell us that just after you made the bet slip before the game started?

I am very sorry you lost your bet.

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September 23, 2013, 06:16:42 PM
 #14

15 minutes ago  on their homepage :

"Minimum bet: 0.001 BTC, maximum bet 3 BTC per bet combination"

now :

" Minimum bet: 0.001 BTC"
Sure, after you told us that this information in the english translation is old. Thank you for that. After user requests, we increased our maximum bet amount on 9/17/2013 for most bet types and pre match bets.
If your bet amount was just a literal error why didn't you tell us that just after you made the bet slip before the game started?

I am very sorry you lost your bet.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=215014.140 

check this topic too

bitcoinlivebets changed its tactic  talking about the false bet (they added to my account) , and not multiple account, and breaking rules
sbrzol
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September 23, 2013, 07:45:12 PM
 #15

here is my 2 regular withdrawals when bitcoinlivebets charged the amount 0.5% :  
(on there site there is nothing about withdrawal fees, of course they will update after my post, but you can check in in google site cache service)

3 BTC --> 2.98511 BTC https://blockchain.info/tx/f15ef48d160b8a37f3a1bcf658146cb44674685dcfc5258c97910f7376e78ad6
about 26,474 BTC (i dont know the correct amount, lost my details) --> 9.93273311 BTC  +  16.40947689 BTC  =  26,34220799 ( i got this in 2 transactions)

https://blockchain.info/tx/73fed1684d8240f943245148951753dd1ec37b21ba21506d68a9a19e8cfe1e54
https://blockchain.info/tx/92080917a31320a17bd8f64d01f7271f54341593aa9e902c53ef8f41e8b0ad83

This is also suspicious   , that my last 2 withdrawals (modified to 10% , 12 -> 1.2, 20.89 -> 2.089 ) not charged with 0.5% fee  , but these are not regular withdrawals ,

the timestamp of these withdrawals are grampled/fake/modifed at least the second one. (there are 32 hours difference beetween them, if we could believe to the timestamps)
i got them only 2 minutes difference (you can check it at the first post of bitcoinlivebets,) ,   53 hours (2 days 5 hours) later from my 1st withdrawal request if we could believe the first timestamp

bitcoinbetlives claim that i first withdrawed only 1.2 BTC  (when my balance was at least 20-25 BTC, i will count it later)  then i bet on an itf noname women tennis match  with 29,601000 BTC (10 times more then the  maxiumum bet amout  i placed ever here, about after 46 bets ) ,  but keep 2,089 BTC on my account , that i withdrawed after lost the fake bet  , so insted of  placed 30 BTC (what they claim now is the max bet), i filled the betting slip  with the 29,601 numbers

 so i risk almost all my account balace to a noname tennis match,  and not to an a match like this one , that i placed earlier
Final Result (in sets - best of 3) Radwanska, Agnieszka - Cabeza Candela, Estrella   2:0   -400
Stake: 3,000000 BTC (Bet by slip 3,000000 BTC), Possible winnings: 3,750000 BTC
sbrzol
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September 23, 2013, 08:37:15 PM
 #16

found this  , the fake bet that bitcoinlivebets added to my account  was a quarter final match

you can count how much money get the winner and the looser

i) ITF Women’s Circuit $10,000 – 32 Draw (2% Fee = $200)
32 Singles 16 Doubles (per team)

Winner $1,568 $637
Finalist $ 980 $343
Semi-finalist $ 490 $196
Quarter-finalist $ 245 $ 98
Round of 16 $ 196 $ 49
Round of 32 $ 98 -
Total $7,644 $2,156

so i was so mad to place 3500 $ to such a match on noname players , that is what bitcoinlivebets try to give you to believe that
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September 23, 2013, 08:48:13 PM
 #17

here is my account history: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=215014.msg3219851#msg3219851
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September 23, 2013, 09:33:48 PM
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here is my transaction list
No.   Point of time   Reference   Amount
14305   19.09.2013, 22:04 Uhr   Auszahlung: 1K42cYkr5wMND8myEhjfMvHxQVWmeq9Vok   -2,089000 BTC
14249   19.09.2013, 19:46 Uhr   Für Wetten gesetzt: Einsatz Wettschein 6618   - 29,601000 BTC
14241   19.09.2013, 19:39 Uhr   Beim Wetten gewonnen: Wettschein 6609 (Unterschein-ID 14105)   + 5,850000 BTC
14134   19.09.2013, 12:08 Uhr   Beim Wetten gewonnen: Wettschein 6597 (Unterschein-ID 14093)   + 3,800000 BTC
13854   19.09.2013, 08:57 Uhr   Für Wetten gesetzt: Einsatz Wettschein 6609   - 3,000000 BTC
13853   19.09.2013, 08:38 Uhr   Beim Wetten gewonnen: Wettschein 6598 (Unterschein-ID 14094)   + 3,750000 BTC
13852   19.09.2013, 08:38 Uhr   Beim Wetten gewonnen: Wettschein 6545 (Unterschein-ID 14041)   + 5,250000 BTC
13823   19.09.2013, 00:07 Uhr   Für Wetten gesetzt: Einsatz Wettschein 6598   - 3,000000 BTC
13822   19.09.2013, 00:03 Uhr   Für Wetten gesetzt: Einsatz Wettschein 6597   - 2,000000 BTC
13745   18.09.2013, 16:46 Uhr   Für Wetten gesetzt: Einsatz Wettschein 6567   - 2,000000 BTC
13692   18.09.2013, 14:06 Uhr   Auszahlung: 1K42cYkr5wMND8myEhjfMvHxQVWmeq9Vok   -1,200000 BTC
13691   18.09.2013, 13:56 Uhr   Für Wetten gesetzt: Einsatz Wettschein 6545   - 3,000000 BTC
13688   18.09.2013, 13:26 Uhr   Beim Wetten gewonnen: Wettschein 6514 (Unterschein-ID 14010)   + 4,500000 BTC
13678   18.09.2013, 12:05 Uhr   Beim Wetten gewonnen: Wettschein 6515 (Unterschein-ID 14011)   + 5,550000 BTC
13677   18.09.2013, 11:45 Uhr   Beim Wetten gewonnen: Wettschein 6469 (Unterschein-ID 13964)   + 5,250000 BTC
13610   17.09.2013, 22:08 Uhr   Für Wetten gesetzt: Einsatz Wettschein 6515   - 3,000000 BTC
13609   17.09.2013, 22:07 Uhr   Für Wetten gesetzt: Einsatz Wettschein 6514   - 3,000000 BTC
13521   17.09.2013, 17:16 Uhr   Für Wetten gesetzt: Einsatz Wettschein 6469   - 3,000000 BTC
13490   17.09.2013, 12:42 Uhr   Beim Wetten gewonnen: Wettschein 6351 (Unterschein-ID 13830)   + 5,550000 BTC
13483   17.09.2013, 11:07 Uhr   Beim Wetten gewonnen: Wettschein 6350 (Unterschein-ID 13829)   + 5,550000 BTC
13479   17.09.2013, 10:07 Uhr   Beim Wetten gewonnen: Wettschein 6378 (Unterschein-ID 13857)   + 5,430000 BTC
13478   17.09.2013, 10:07 Uhr   Beim Wetten gewonnen: Wettschein 6376 (Unterschein-ID 13855)   + 3,900000 BTC
13310   16.09.2013, 16:45 Uhr   Für Wetten gesetzt: Einsatz Wettschein 6378   - 3,000000 BTC
13308   16.09.2013, 16:42 Uhr   Für Wetten gesetzt: Einsatz Wettschein 6376   - 3,000000 BTC
13258   16.09.2013, 11:50 Uhr   Für Wetten gesetzt: Einsatz Wettschein 6351   - 3,000000 BTC
13257   16.09.2013, 11:49 Uhr   Für Wetten gesetzt: Einsatz Wettschein 6350   - 3,000000 BTC
13096   16.09.2013, 07:51 Uhr   Beim Wetten gewonnen: Wettschein 6340 (Unterschein-ID 13770)   + 1,850000 BTC
13078   16.09.2013, 01:52 Uhr   Für Wetten gesetzt: Einsatz Wettschein 6340   - 1,000000 BTC
13074   16.09.2013, 01:27 Uhr   Für Wetten gesetzt: Einsatz Wettschein 6338   - 3,000000 BTC
13052   15.09.2013, 22:26 Uhr   Für Wetten gesetzt: Einsatz Wettschein 6331   - 3,000000 BTC
10646   04.09.2013, 19:12 Uhr   Beim Wetten gewonnen: Wettschein 5186 (Unterschein-ID 12110)   + 5,550000 BTC
10632   04.09.2013, 18:27 Uhr   Beim Wetten gewonnen: Wettschein 5184 (Unterschein-ID 12108)   + 4,200000 BTC
10562   04.09.2013, 13:30 Uhr   Für Wetten gesetzt: Einsatz Wettschein 5187   - 2,640000 BTC
10561   04.09.2013, 13:27 Uhr   Für Wetten gesetzt: Einsatz Wettschein 5186   - 3,000000 BTC
10560   04.09.2013, 13:24 Uhr   Für Wetten gesetzt: Einsatz Wettschein 5185   - 2,210000 BTC
10559   04.09.2013, 13:24 Uhr   Für Wetten gesetzt: Einsatz Wettschein 5184   - 2,000000 BTC
10488   03.09.2013, 22:56 Uhr   Beim Wetten gewonnen: Wettschein 5119 (Unterschein-ID 12033)   + 3,800000 BTC
10438   03.09.2013, 18:28 Uhr   Für Wetten gesetzt: Einsatz Wettschein 5119   - 2,000000 BTC
10364   03.09.2013, 11:07 Uhr   Beim Wetten gewonnen: Wettschein 5014 (Unterschein-ID 11928)   + 4,200000 BTC
10358   03.09.2013, 10:33 Uhr   Beim Wetten gewonnen: Wettschein 5016 (Unterschein-ID 11930)   + 2,100000 BTC
10349   03.09.2013, 05:32 Uhr   Beim Wetten gewonnen: Wettschein 4916 (Unterschein-ID 11827)   + 5,700000 BTC
10263   02.09.2013, 19:51 Uhr   Für Wetten gesetzt: Einsatz Wettschein 5017   - 1,140000 BTC
10262   02.09.2013, 19:50 Uhr   Für Wetten gesetzt: Einsatz Wettschein 5016   - 1,000000 BTC
10261   02.09.2013, 19:48 Uhr   Für Wetten gesetzt: Einsatz Wettschein 5015   - 2,200000 BTC
10260   02.09.2013, 19:48 Uhr   Für Wetten gesetzt: Einsatz Wettschein 5014   - 2,000000 BTC
10117   02.09.2013, 10:55 Uhr   Für Wetten gesetzt: Einsatz Wettschein 4916   - 3,000000 BTC
9986   01.09.2013, 18:30 Uhr   Für Wetten gesetzt: Einsatz Wettschein 4867   - 1,000000 BTC
9713   31.08.2013, 21:26 Uhr   Beim Wetten gewonnen: Wettschein 4678 (Unterschein-ID 11506)   + 2,850000 BTC
9652   31.08.2013, 16:58 Uhr   Für Wetten gesetzt: Einsatz Wettschein 4678   - 1,500000 BTC
9524   31.08.2013, 01:39 Uhr   Beim Wetten gewonnen: Wettschein 4506 (Unterschein-ID 11331)   + 5,700000 BTC
9435   30.08.2013, 17:19 Uhr   Beim Wetten gewonnen: Wettschein 4466 (Unterschein-ID 11291)   + 2,625000 BTC
9436   30.08.2013, 17:19 Uhr   Beim Wetten gewonnen: Wettschein 4467 (Unterschein-ID 11292)   + 2,625000 BTC
9370   30.08.2013, 00:12 Uhr   Für Wetten gesetzt: Einsatz Wettschein 4506   - 3,000000 BTC
9311   29.08.2013, 18:15 Uhr   Für Wetten gesetzt: Einsatz Wettschein 4467   - 1,500000 BTC
9310   29.08.2013, 18:12 Uhr   Für Wetten gesetzt: Einsatz Wettschein 4466   - 1,500000 BTC
9309   29.08.2013, 18:05 Uhr   Einzahlung:   + 8,000000 BTC
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September 23, 2013, 09:45:19 PM
 #19

i have also screenshots,  will share it within 10 minutes

i can give you (send pm)  pro trusted user my login details  username/pass to login and check it  please , save it, make screenshots

i have an insight that bitcoinlivebets will fake my account or make it unavailable
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September 23, 2013, 09:54:29 PM
 #20


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