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Author Topic: [PRE-SALE][ICO] Petro $PTR - Oil backed crypto currency launched by Venezuela  (Read 26293 times)
taseenb
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February 27, 2018, 02:13:11 PM
 #101

Sorry i don't buy it. I was born in Argentina and have met many Venezuelans (and many economic crisis). I know what a dictatorship is (I was born in one) and Venezuela is obviously not one.
Not all dictatorships are the same, but if you think Venezuela is so fine and democratic, you should take a trip there. Talk to brown people if you want, run an informal poll and see how much people like Maduro.

You are kidding. You have no idea what a dictatorship is and you insult the hundreds of thousands that have been disappeared, raped, tortured, jailed and the millions that have fled countries like Chile and Argentina, you have no idea what a police state is. You ignore what Venezuela was before Chavez, the thousands killed at the Caracazo. You are a joke, literally. Venezuela is surely a liberal democracy, you just don't like the elected government.
People of the Venezuelan opposition complain all the time and are mostly a bunch of fascists from wealthy environments (not all, but most of them). Their complaints are wildly hypocritical.

Hope the Petro will work, the rest is useless.
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taseenb
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February 27, 2018, 02:20:16 PM
 #102

U.S. Senator calls for crackdown on Venezuela’s Petro
https://cryptovest.com/news/us-senator-calls-for-crackdown-on-venezuelas-petro/
why? isn't it supposed to be a shit coin? why so worry about the Petro coin then? lmao.
https://www.dailyrounds.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/i-dont-know.jpg

That's a very good point. Mainstream media and US politicians like Marco Rubio (a mafia guy strongly committed with coups and war against Venezuela) feel the need to crackdown on the Petro. Why?
Maybe they fear it could actually work and make their criminal jobs quite harder or, worse, useless.

Coindesk is a wildly racist US website that copy-pastes US propaganda and mixes it with cryptos, so take it as it is: https://www.coindesk.com/u-s-senators-decry-venezuelan-petro/
taseenb
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February 27, 2018, 02:34:37 PM
 #103

It would be pretty massive if an OPEC country had a globally exchangeable crypto currency.

The Petro is exactly that. It will be globally exchangeable. The oil barrel should only be its base price.
taseenb
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February 27, 2018, 03:26:19 PM
 #104

this oil is rafined or not ?

The Venezuelan oil barrel is around 58$ these days. That's the reference price for the Petro. Of course it changes every week, based on the market.
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February 27, 2018, 04:50:13 PM
 #105

[NEWS] Dagong Global Credit Rating (Chinese credit rating agency) gives very positive review of Petro
http://globovision.com/article/calificadora-china-el-petro-ofrece-nuevas-ideas-al-sistema-monetario-internacional (SPANISH)

Please note that DGCR is totally independent from the Venezuelan government. In fact, their current rating of Venezuela's sovereign debt is basically: "rubbish". But of course the Petro is a totally different matter. The success of the Petro is not even linked to a possible sovereign debt default. And the Petro could even help avoiding that, if it works.

I could not find an English article (only Spanish, Chinese and Russian so far), please post it if you find it!
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February 27, 2018, 04:56:57 PM
 #106

You are kidding. You have no idea what a dictatorship is and you insult the hundreds of thousands that have been disappeared, raped, tortured, jailed and the millions that have fled countries like Chile and Argentina, you have no idea what a police state is.

Give me a break.

Disappeared? Yes – https://armando.info/Reportajes/DemoPublico/2396
Raped? Yes – https://www.caracaschronicles.com/2016/11/30/afiuni-trial/
Tortured? Yes – https://www.caracaschronicles.com/2017/09/15/torture-in-venezuela/
Jailed? Yes – https://elcooperante.com/preso-por-tuitear-dan-zambrano-el-periodista-que-peco-al-retuitear-criticas-contra-el-gobierno/
Police state? Yes, especially against cryptocurrency minershttps://hackernoon.com/extortion-police-raids-and-secrecy-inside-the-venezuelan-bitcoin-mining-world-6e97a25e7402

Get out of your propaganda bubble. If you fund the petro, you will fund all of this.
taseenb
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February 27, 2018, 05:21:15 PM
Last edit: February 27, 2018, 05:43:07 PM by taseenb
 #107

Get out of your propaganda bubble. If you fund the petro, you will fund all of this.

This is garbage. And you even talk about "propaganda bubble"! All millionaires belong to the opposition, almost all private media in Venezuela are controlled by the opposition. There are journalists and politicians openly calling for military interventions and sabotage, defining Maduro a dictator in prime time on tv. There are free elections. Opposition organised coups, funded gangs (guarimbas) that invaded and blocked the streets killing and lynching dozens of people (including policemen) for months.

Please don't be more ridiculous than necessary.

Venezuela is a democracy. And there are elections on 22nd April. Good luck and bye bye.
taseenb
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February 27, 2018, 05:40:08 PM
 #108

Very interesting comment by Max Keiser (before the announcement of the Petro) talking about de-dollarisation in the world.
This gives an idea of the size of the game and the reasons why the Petro does not come alone could succeed.

On path to de-dollarization: World tired of funding US military adventurism – Max Keiser
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC7QEqxZCIs
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February 27, 2018, 05:55:17 PM
 #109

Max Keiser: "Which of these state sponsored cryptos has the best chance of working?"
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DW0PcNfXUAAPO9P.jpg

I agree Venezuela has the largest proven oil reserves in the world and is closest to the worlds largest consumer of energy which is USA.    There is a great potential but we dont yet know that potential will be supported by a good open market discovery on price.   I hope so but hope aint always enough!

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February 27, 2018, 05:57:57 PM
 #110

It doesn't really matter whether you believe Venezuela is a democracy or not. For an investment look at the governments financial track record.
If you want to crowdfund Maduro regardless of human rights issues, fine go ahead, but you will lose money on this "investment" for sure.
taseenb
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February 27, 2018, 06:22:36 PM
Last edit: February 27, 2018, 06:56:55 PM by taseenb
 #111

It doesn't really matter whether you believe Venezuela is a democracy or not. For an investment look at the governments financial track record.
If you want to crowdfund Maduro regardless of human rights issues, fine go ahead, but you will lose money on this "investment" for sure.

Maduro's personal human rights record is clean. Unlike every US president in the last centuries who has personally ordered invasions, bombings, terrorism, psyops, coups etc. If it was for human rights nobody should invest in anything in the US.

Maduro is an elected President who's gone through a media assassination because the US need to overthrow him (as they tried with Chavez for years), as simple as that. His government has faced the worst siege and aggressions (criminal, financial, commercial and through the mainstream media) a country could get. The information on Venezuela and Maduro is a pure childish caricature, written by Venezuelan opposition, that is funded with millions of dollars by the US (meddling in elections?).
In 2017, 176 people have been killed by the extreme violence initiated by opposition funded gangs in the streets. The opposition ordered to "take the streets' in order to overthrow the elected government. ANY government in the world would have done whatever possible to keep peace. They successfully did it, with the election of the Constituent Assembly that sentenced the political defeat of the opposition violent strategy.

As for your opinion on the investment, well. It's a quite poor.
taseenb
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February 27, 2018, 06:55:45 PM
 #112

There is a great potential but we dont yet know that potential will be supported by a good open market discovery on price.

What do you mean by that? Petro will be freely exchanged in the market once released. Its price will be determined by that. Its base price will be the oil barrel. I don't understand what your point is here.
happyminer1
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February 27, 2018, 07:01:21 PM
 #113

this oil is rafined or not ?
Not refined, not even extracted. And the oilfield supposedly to back the petro isn't developed.

There was just published the presidential decree establishing this (fictional) backing and it determines that "the potential development of 5.342 million of barrels (net) of original oil in situ" will form the backing.

If you know Spanish you can read it yourself: http://gacetaoficial.tuabogado.com/gaceta-oficial/decada-2010/2018/gaceta-oficial-41347-del-23-febrero-2018

Of course, the "potential development" of a barrel of heavy oil in an undeveloped oil field of the Orinoco isn't worth 58$. Far from it.
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February 27, 2018, 08:58:16 PM
Last edit: February 27, 2018, 09:09:17 PM by happyminer1
 #114


Here's an article that may clear up some of your misconceptions about the supposed oil backing: https://prodavinci.com/esta-el-petro-realmente-respaldado-por-reservas-petroleras/

This excelent article about the "backing" of the petro is now also available in English:
https://www.caracaschronicles.com/2018/02/27/petro-truly-backed-oil-reserves/

Another helpful opinion piece:
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-02-25/venezuela-s-petro-cryptocurrency-won-t-help-debt
taseenb
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February 27, 2018, 11:30:04 PM
 #115

This excelent article about the "backing" of the petro is now also available in English:
https://www.caracaschronicles.com/2018/02/27/petro-truly-backed-oil-reserves/

The only problem with caracaschronicles.com is that it's opposition garbage, basically publishing a mix of propaganda, fake news and conspiracy theories in English, for the international gullible consumer.
dumble1
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February 27, 2018, 11:50:19 PM
 #116

This excelent article about the "backing" of the petro is now also available in English:
https://www.caracaschronicles.com/2018/02/27/petro-truly-backed-oil-reserves/

The only problem with caracaschronicles.com is that it's opposition garbage, basically publishing a mix of propaganda, fake news and conspiracy theories in English, for the international gullible consumer.

So in reality Venezuela is a prospering country?
happyminer1
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February 27, 2018, 11:52:33 PM
 #117

This excelent article about the "backing" of the petro is now also available in English:
https://www.caracaschronicles.com/2018/02/27/petro-truly-backed-oil-reserves/

The only problem with caracaschronicles.com is that it's opposition garbage, basically publishing a mix of propaganda, fake news and conspiracy theories in English, for the international gullible consumer.

Read the article, evaluate its arguments. By discounting from the outset all information and reflection made available by sources associated with the opposition and by international mainstream media your are insulating yourself from rational reasoning.
taseenb
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February 28, 2018, 12:40:29 AM
 #118

The only problem with caracaschronicles.com is that it's opposition garbage, basically publishing a mix of propaganda, fake news and conspiracy theories in English, for the international gullible consumer.

Read the article, evaluate its arguments. By discounting from the outset all information and reflection made available by sources associated with the opposition and by international mainstream media your are insulating yourself from rational reasoning.

Learn how media works. Follow the money. I read everything and that's irrelevant as I said in previous posts. But you can keep repeating this "backing" thing over and over again, it's fine.

The Petro is potentially valuable for tons of other reasons too, even if it wasn't backed at all.
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February 28, 2018, 12:44:56 AM
Last edit: February 28, 2018, 11:16:10 AM by happyminer1
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 #119

I don’t understand why there isn’t any analysis of the contract the Venezuelan government want people to sign to acquire petros. It is quite impressive. You can find it online: http://elpetro.gob.ve/docs/OFERTA%20FINAL%205.pdf

Here then, my take at it.

One first point: This is a contract in which all obligations are assumed by the client, who wants to buy petro, while the partner (the SUPCACVEN) doesn’t assume any obligation through the contract. (SUPCACVEN is the “Venezuelan Superintendency of Cryptoassets and Related Activities” or “Superintendencia de los Criptoactivos y Actividades Conexas Venezolana” in Spanish.)

Another important point to note: It is a contract with the SUPCACVEN. The petro is released by SUPCACVEN and not the Central Bank, while according to the Venezuelan constitution the “monetary competence of National Authority shall necessarily be exercised exclusively by the Venezuelan Central Bank”. (According to the translation provided by the embassy of Venezuela in the US: http://www.embavenez-us.org/constitution/title_vi.htm.)

Let’s go through the details of the contract:

The sections 1.-3. make sense for such kind of contract: One is asked to provide information on the natural or judicial person wanting to buy petros (the “client”), information on the bank account and finally information on the employment of the client.

The section 4. contains the actual offer to buy petros. The client has to fill out two fields, one stating the currency he is going to use to buy petros and the other stating the amount (in that currency) he is going to offer. With the text around these fields the client affirms that he is making a formal and binding offer to buy any amount of petros up to the amount of foreign currency indicated by him at a (variable) closing price which will depend on the total amount of petros assigned and the buying offers received. There is no explanation at all (in the whole contract or anywhere else), how this closing price is going to be determined.

So just as an example: You might offer to buy petros for 100,000 US dollars. And you are contractually committed to accept that in the end you might receive 500 petros paying 50,000 US dollars. This wouldn’t go against the contract, because SUPCACVEN could always claim that the effective price of 100 US dollars was in some way dependent on the total assignment of petros and the total amount offered.

Section 5. contains space for the signature. With it the client commits himself to acquire the amount of petros assigned to him, gives the SUPCACVEN the right automatically to debit the corresponding amount in foreign currency in the client’s bank account and declares in lieu of an oath that the amount of currency indicated by him is available in his bank account.  

The next section is to be filled in by SUPCACVEN. Interesting is the first part of the section where SUPCACVEN is going to indicate which kind of product is approved here. This doesn’t make any sense in the context of the pre-sale of petros and shows (together with the next lines of this area) that the form is taken over from some other context. But it is interesting anyway, as there are only four possible choices for the product and only one suits the given context: In the pre-sale of the petro you acquire no stock option, no index option and no option on foreign currency. This leaves just one choice: Option on a debt instrument!

The next section, labeled “6.”, contains the terms of the offer. All 12 are interesting, but let’s take up just a selection and this selection only in part:

2. The client explicitly accepts that SUPCACVEN doesn’t guarantee the final price of the option.

3. In case that the the client’s account doesn’t contain the amount of foreign currency finally accepted by SUPCACVEN the client is liable to penal and civil sanctions.

6. The signing and handing in of the contract through the client doesn’t result in any obligation on the side of SUPCACVEN, given that the assignation will depend on an appraisal of the client according to “objective” criteria at the discretion of the national government.

8. The client has received and read all the publications of SUPCACVEN (does this include all its tweets?) and also the most current risk discloser document of the "option". (Such a document wasn’t made public, nobody can have read it.)

11. The client accepts that the resolution of all disputes falls under Venezuelan jurisdiction and
only and exclusively Venezuelan law applies. (As there is no independent judiciary in Venezuela this means that there is no way whatsoever to recover your investment in court.)

12. Disclosure of the contract or parts of it by the client of the contract results in its immediate annulment, and is liable to civil and penal sanctions according to Venezuelan law. (This is funny, as this is a contract to be signed by thousands of people and you can find it through google. But it demonstrates well the lack of transparency around the the launch of the petro.)
taseenb
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February 28, 2018, 12:53:59 AM
 #120

So in reality Venezuela is a prospering country?

Venezuela is in a deep economic crisis, that is not a "normal" recession. It was triggered by the 2014 oil price collapse and then made worse by US interventionism through sanctions and a large scale economic war.

Despite the economic crisis and the hyperinflation problem (that is largely fabricated from Miami and Colombia, investigate it if interested), the representation you get on mainstream media is a ridiculous caricature of the situation people actually live. The political goal of the whole operation is to justify a military intervention or a coup to overthrow the democratically elected government. The US did this dozens of times. But Venezuela is, unfortunately for them, quite ready. A coup they tried in 2002 failed and the army is quite hard to infiltrate now. They can attack through their puppet/proxy Colombia with terrorist attacks on the border.

The earlier the Petro arrives the stronger Venezuela will be in the global market and easier will be to recover, even with US sanctions.
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