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Author Topic: [PRE-SALE][ICO] Petro $PTR - Oil backed crypto currency launched by Venezuela  (Read 26585 times)
taseenb
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March 09, 2018, 04:11:19 PM
Last edit: March 09, 2018, 04:49:03 PM by taseenb
 #221

Maduro can't be trusted, but what happening can have a large impact in the crypto world

My take on Maduro (simplified)

Maduro CAN be trusted. He is in my opinion one of the few trustworthy political leaders in the world, like Chavez. Both have humble origins and grew a very strong conscience of honesty and social justice. Maduro has been a worker, union leader and political activist almost all his life before joining Chavez administration. Their political base is very strong, diverse and large: millions of people, hundreds of supporting political and social organisations, thousands of communities and a long experience of fighting, administering and organising under endless aggressions and violence. Maduro is not a TV marketing product: his position is strongly rooted in the democratic Venezuelan society. He's beloved and trusted by millions of people in Venezuela, who know very well the character assassination he's been victim of in the media.

Of course people can disagree on his qualities as a man and leader, or his policies (if they know what they're talking about which is rare), but there's one thing nobody can honestly disagree: Maduro has been misrepresented, smeared by the opposition media like nobody else in recent history, with blatant lies, unsubstantiated delirious stories or misleading and manipulated information 24/7.

Also, Maduro was elected in 2013 and has shown a surprising resilience and bravery during one of the most violent and lasting attacks a country has ever seen from the US empire (excluding horrendous wars like Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Libya, Syria etc). Everybody was convinced he was done by the end of 2015, when he lost the legislative elections. But they recovered trust. His consistency in working for the peace and the people of Venezuela (keeping and extending social support during the crisis) is remarkable. People saw the difference between Maduro's commitment for peace and opposition criminal, opportunistic violence to create the chaos and overthrow the elected government through a coup. He is also well known for his international diplomatic experience (he was foreign minister for many years), always open to dialogue with all political forces and opponents, very good strategist.

The representation of Maduro you get on the media is a laughable racist caricature. He's represented as an idiot. And he's clearly not, which makes opposition people (and many Americans and Europeans) go crazy.

If you want to trust a politician today, that's Maduro. He's putting his life at risk, he has nothing to lose but defend the sovereignty of the country and work for its economic transformation and recovery. The Petro is a very new project, and he's not personally in charge (it's full of technicalities), but I'm quite sure he's putting a lot of hope on it and will do what he can to make it successful.
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March 09, 2018, 04:30:49 PM
 #222

Ideally anyone who wants to trade Petro would also have an idea of the oil situation and potential demand for this specific type of oil and where its placed in the world as I guess that'd weigh in on the crypto currency if they do really have a relationship in the market

Until the 70s Venezuela has been the first oil producer in the world. It was a US gas station, and it's still worth trillions and trillions. Not only in oil: it's a massive source (among first in the planet) of wealth in gas, gold, diamonds, key metals and water. When Saudi Arabia became more strategic for US/UK economy, Venezuela's production became less important and got reduced.

The potential is there. PDVSA, oil company, only needs to be put in conditions to use new resources for investments. This is just a matter of time: Venezuela won't rely on the US anymore and is totally transforming its financial and productive strategies. Their relations with Russia and China is very strong and it's going to grow even more after the sanctions, both in import and export (military, energy, technology). Once the governments in the region change side, which can happen anytime, Venezuela will have strong partners there too again.

It's a country that will not surrender and will surprise many in the coming years.

I think the Petro is only one of the surprises.
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March 09, 2018, 06:26:46 PM
Last edit: March 09, 2018, 07:01:10 PM by happyminer1
 #223

The US funded opposition represents these categories, their privilege, and is mostly led (not surprisingly) by billionaires. Some of these leaders control large portions of the private industry and media (mostly TVs and newspapers), some are criminals who have dealt with arms traffic, coup plots, terrorism, violent gangs, corruption etc.

Baseless defamations and nonsense ("mostly led by billionaires").

This report is part of the work of a commission created by the Constituent Assembly in August 2017: the Truth Commission, an investigative body that is collecting information from ALL the relatives of the victims and witnesses, to establish reparation programs and the truth. It was published by the Ministry of Communication in this form, a few months ago. Obviously, international media have totally ignored it.

REPORT (PDF, 595 pages): http://minci.gob.ve/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Investigaci%C3%B3n-Period%C3%ADstica-V%C3%ADctimas-Fatales-de-la-Violencia-Pol%C3%ADtica-ABRIL-SEPTIEMBRE-2017-Actualizado-15-09-17-CORREGIDO.pdf

This report isn't part of the work of the so called "Truth Commission" of the Constituent Assembly and it is not based on information coming from relatives and witnesses. It is a "journalistic investigation" (!)  written and published by the "Ministry of Communication and Information" based on publicly available communications of official sources and information gathered from social and traditional media. (To a large part media presenting the government's point of view.) The report presents the version of the government and doesn't possess the impartiality one would expect from the work of a true Truth Commission.
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March 09, 2018, 08:31:11 PM
Last edit: March 09, 2018, 09:22:15 PM by taseenb
 #224

Baseless defamations and nonsense ("mostly led by billionaires").

I perfectly know you are a supporter of these anti-democratic, wealthy people, who are in many (most) cases criminals.

Enrique Capriles (last opposition Presidential candidate) is a billionaire.
Leopoldo Lopez, US educated criminal arrested for inciting murder and violence that led to the death of 40 people, comes from a billionaire family.
Pedro Carmona, the non-elected president illegally appointed after the 2002 military coup, is a billionaire who escaped to Colombia.
María Corina Machado and others...

The whole Venezuelan ultra-corrupted, wealthy oligarchy forms the leadership of the US funded opposition.

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March 09, 2018, 08:52:47 PM
Last edit: March 09, 2018, 09:33:59 PM by taseenb
 #225

This report is part of the work of a commission created by the Constituent Assembly in August 2017: the Truth Commission, an investigative body that is collecting information from ALL the relatives of the victims and witnesses, to establish reparation programs and the truth. It was published by the Ministry of Communication in this form, a few months ago. Obviously, international media have totally ignored it.

REPORT (PDF, 595 pages): http://minci.gob.ve/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Investigaci%C3%B3n-Period%C3%ADstica-V%C3%ADctimas-Fatales-de-la-Violencia-Pol%C3%ADtica-ABRIL-SEPTIEMBRE-2017-Actualizado-15-09-17-CORREGIDO.pdf

This report isn't part of the work of the so called "Truth Commission" of the Constituent Assembly and it is not based on information coming from relatives and witnesses. It is a "journalistic investigation" (!)  written and published by the "Ministry of Communication and Information" based on publicly available communications of official sources and information gathered from social and traditional media. (To a large part media presenting the government's point of view.) The report presents the version of the government and doesn't possess the impartiality one would expect from the work of a true Truth Commission.

This report is a part of the work, as it has been given from the government to the Commission.
You are right, this is not an official, judicial truth: the report is based on media sources, but it's the most important research we have TODAY.
Actually this is the ONLY detailed research available on the deaths in 2017. Opposition media have always avoided to collect details (names, dates, circumstances), for obvious reasons.

The only other track record (death toll) was done by independent left-wing venezuelanalysis.com (but it is much less detailed): https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/13081
This report is the "version of the government", but collects information from ANY media, and anyway it's not even the problem because these sources are only used to try to understand the circumstances or get basic details like names and dates.
This report details also ALL the people from the opposition that have been killed, obviously.

We perfectly know, you and I, that you don't care at all about the truth of the opposition guarimbas (criminal gangs) in Venezuela. You just hate and couldn't care less about democracy and people, so guarimbas, coups, fake news, foreign intervention is all good for you.
But the truth about opposition payed "guarimbas" (gangs) is terrorism, destruction and a bloodshed of many innocent people, as everybody knows.

Go on. Read the report.
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March 09, 2018, 09:46:37 PM
 #226

Baseless defamations and nonsense ("mostly led by billionaires").

Enrique Capriles (last opposition Presidential candidate) is a billionaire.
Leopoldo Lopez, US educated criminal arrested for inciting murder and violence that led to the death of 40 people, comes from a billionaire family.

Sentenced without any credible evidence:

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/09/venezuela-sentence-against-opposition-leader-shows-utter-lack-of-judicial-independence/

Pedro Carmona, the non-elected president illegally appointed after the 2002 military coup, is a billionaire who escaped to Colombia.
María Corina Machado and others...

None of them a billionaire. You are making this simply up without any evidence. There are at this moment only two Venezuelan billionaires on the Forbes list.
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March 09, 2018, 10:24:33 PM
 #227

This report is part of the work of a commission created by the Constituent Assembly in August 2017: the Truth Commission, an investigative body that is collecting information from ALL the relatives of the victims and witnesses, to establish reparation programs and the truth. It was published by the Ministry of Communication in this form, a few months ago. Obviously, international media have totally ignored it.

REPORT (PDF, 595 pages): http://minci.gob.ve/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Investigaci%C3%B3n-Period%C3%ADstica-V%C3%ADctimas-Fatales-de-la-Violencia-Pol%C3%ADtica-ABRIL-SEPTIEMBRE-2017-Actualizado-15-09-17-CORREGIDO.pdf

This report isn't part of the work of the so called "Truth Commission" of the Constituent Assembly and it is not based on information coming from relatives and witnesses. It is a "journalistic investigation" (!)  written and published by the "Ministry of Communication and Information" based on publicly available communications of official sources and information gathered from social and traditional media. (To a large part media presenting the government's point of view.) The report presents the version of the government and doesn't possess the impartiality one would expect from the work of a true Truth Commission.

This report is a part of the work, as it has been given from the government to the Commission.

No public record at all for this claim.

You are right, this is not an official, judicial truth: the report is based on media sources, but it's the most important research we have TODAY.
Actually this is the ONLY detailed research available on the deaths in 2017. Opposition media have always avoided to collect details (names, dates, circumstances), for obvious reasons.

You are wrong:

http://runrun.es/rr-es-plus/319427/fotos-infografia-y-mapa-muertos-en-protestas-en-venezuela-parte-dos.html

The only other track record (death toll) was done by independent left-wing venezuelanalysis.com (but it is much less detailed): https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/13081

Another one by PROVEA:

https://www.derechos.org.ve/actualidad/139-personas-fallecidas-en-contexto-de-manifestaciones-hasta-el-27-de-julio

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March 09, 2018, 10:44:09 PM
 #228

So is this going to be an ERC20 token or will it implement another ERC standard like ERC223?
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March 09, 2018, 10:45:20 PM
 #229

And is it already on etherscan?
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March 09, 2018, 10:57:49 PM
 #230

Which will be the advantage to own the Petro coin? If this will reflect the price of Venezual oil, wouldn't it be the same to just buy some oil ETF ?

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March 09, 2018, 11:59:03 PM
 #231

Which will be the advantage to own the Petro coin? If this will reflect the price of Venezual oil, wouldn't it be the same to just buy some oil ETF ?

The advantage for foreign investors is the possibility that the petro will profit from the crypto hype and therefore its price will increase well above the oil price. Add to this the support the government of Venezuela is giving to the petro through its well running propaganda machine and various ways of forcing the petro on the Venezuelan population and Venezuelan private and public companies as means of payment. The white paper states: "The State will actively assume the commitment to promote the adoption of Petro, encouraging the growth of its national and international user base." So far they are fulfilling this promise. With which success remains to be seen: There is up to now no public commitment of anybody outside of Venezuela to accept or use petros - for instance in international trade with Venezuela.

The price you pay is the much higher risk than that of an oil ETF:

  • The government carefully avoided to implement any mechanism by which you could claim the international price of Venezuelan oil for your petros. For that reason the price of Venezuelan oil does not constitute a lower bond for the price of the petro, it might go well below. (There is a promise to accept petros for instance for tax payments in Venezuela. But there will apply a discount of at least 10% and this will apply to the price of oil in bolívares determined by a government set exchange rate.)
  • In the newest versions of the white paper there is a promise not to increase the number of petros above the original 100 million but there is so far no technological guarantee. In earlier versions the possibility to add further petros was explicitly contemplated.
  • The white paper speaks also about a discount during presale and part of the initial sale. But if you look at the actual contract they ask you to sign, you will find that there is no contractual obligation at all on the side of the Venezuelan government to give you such discount.
  • If you are an American investor you might incur sanctions as forewarned by the US treasury (see https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/Sanctions/Pages/faq_other.aspx#551 ).
  • As all disputes are going go be decided by Venezuelan courts you can be assured not to be able to recover your investment if something goes wrong through the courts.
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March 10, 2018, 12:16:20 AM
 #232

So is this going to be an ERC20 token or will it implement another ERC standard like ERC223?

The white paper says:

Quote
As previously explained, the NEM blockchain token will have immutable supply (will be pre-mined) in NEM blockchain. At the beginning of the pre-sale process, the entire issue will be in the digital portfolios of the Republic. ... Prior to the Initial Offer, the 100 million (100,000,000) cryptoassets of the issue will be pre-mined in the Petro blocks chain. The Petro NEM blockchain token will have Petro from its own blockchain reserved to be exchanged when decided by its holders. The remaining Petro’s, including those not assigned in the Pre-Sale, will be placed on sale open to the public and will remain available until its existence is exhausted.

In my understanding this says that the Petro will be on NEM. All references to ERC20 where extinguished from the white paper and replaced by references to NEM. (After the official launch of presale!) But the formulation is ambiguous and is compatible with the interpretation that only the presale toke will be on NEM. Also, as they changed the white paper after the official launch of presale without any explanation they might change it again. (Presale BTW didn't start yet in fact.)
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March 10, 2018, 12:29:23 AM
Last edit: March 10, 2018, 12:39:33 AM by happyminer1
 #233

And is it already on etherscan?

If the petro is still meant to be an ERC20 token, this might be the contract:

https://etherscan.io/token/0x3341b14ea28a4627cd807d704fbb85ff51239775

(If not, it might be the contract they planned to use before the last minute changes to NEM.)

This is widely believed to be the NEM contract for at least presale:

http://explorer.ournem.com/#/s_account?account=NCGBBZKOTERO3EXMPPCNDNDXZQQJXBEMWWO7MB66
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March 10, 2018, 01:45:21 AM
Last edit: March 10, 2018, 01:57:08 AM by taseenb
 #234

None of them a billionaire. You are making this simply up without any evidence. There are at this moment only two Venezuelan billionaires on the Forbes list.

Multi-millionaires... ok. So you're happy. That's the Venezuelan opposition leadership: a bunch of multi-millionaire mafia guys and coup plotters, some of them super rich educated in the US to serve them well, as they do.
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March 10, 2018, 01:52:19 AM
 #235

This report is a part of the work, as it has been given from the government to the Commission.
No public record at all for this claim.

You don't even watch the link i post:
http://minci.gob.ve/2018/01/ministerios-entregaron-informe-danos-guarimbas-comision-la-verdad/

Quote
You are right, this is not an official, judicial truth: the report is based on media sources, but it's the most important research we have TODAY.
Actually this is the ONLY detailed research available on the deaths in 2017. Opposition media have always avoided to collect details (names, dates, circumstances), for obvious reasons.
You are wrong:
http://runrun.es/rr-es-plus/319427/fotos-infografia-y-mapa-muertos-en-protestas-en-venezuela-parte-dos.html
Another one by PROVEA:
https://www.derechos.org.ve/actualidad/139-personas-fallecidas-en-contexto-de-manifestaciones-hasta-el-27-de-julio

Thanks, that confirms exactly what i just said (the second link is laughable): the report is THE ONLY serious research available of each one of the 172 victims cases. And apart from venezuelanalysis.com (so so) and runrun.es (quite poor) efforts there is absolutely no other decent source about the deaths whatsoever. Only endless CNN bullshit. All data shows a reality that is VERY different from opposition and US media narrative.
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March 10, 2018, 02:04:33 AM
 #236

Which will be the advantage to own the Petro coin? If this will reflect the price of Venezual oil, wouldn't it be the same to just buy some oil ETF ?

It's a big difference.

The Petro is a crypto currency and its price will be determined by the market (freely traded in exchanges). The government of Venezuela only says that they would back each Petro with the value of an oil barrel. In other words the price of the Petro, theoretically, could be higher (even much higher) than an oil barrel, if the project succeeds. The "backing" is not in my opinion the most attractive feature of the Petro.

There are several reasons why the project could succeed, regardless the "backing" that everybody focus on:

Quote
- EXHANGES: Petro will be traded in the secondary market: exchanges around the world and in Venezuela.
- MASS ADOPTION: Petro will be accepted for payments of taxes, fees, public services and more from day 1, therefore offering a large adoption (larger than any other existing crypto).
- BIG NUMBERS: Petro will be accepted for Venezuelan oil trade (which is in the range of 8-25 billion US dollars).
- ATTRACTIVE PRICE: The pre-sale and ICO will offer Petros at an attractive, discounted price (in part): companies with Petros will then be able to buy oil at it's normal price with Petros.
- PRIVATE SECTOR ADOPTION: Private companies in Venezuela (like shops) could start accepting Petros, once they are launched in the market, increasing the adoption even more.
- EXPANSION OF PUBLIC SECTOR ADOPTION: Eventually, the State could even decide to pay public employees and social benefits with Petros and expand further its use.
- ANTI-INFLATION: Because of its anti-inflationary nature, the Petro could be much more interesting for Venezuelans than Bolivares and more convenient and safe than US dollars

Petro could become the most used crypto in the world, at least until other countries like Russia or Iran do the same.
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March 10, 2018, 02:07:19 AM
 #237

  • In the newest versions of the white paper there is a promise not to increase the number of petros above the original 100 million but there is so far no technological guarantee. In earlier versions the possibility to add further petros was explicitly contemplated.

Can you prove that? I think this is one of your FUD lies.

I've always read, on all versions of the White Paper, that the total number is 100,000,000 and will not change. Which is in the Government interest, obviously. I don't want to enter into a polemic here: just show the evidence of what you say or we assume it's a lie.
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March 10, 2018, 05:20:46 AM
 #238

Why can not Petro be bought with Bolívares? and why did they do it with the ERC20 algorithm if it is the easiest? why not an X13, X16 or X17? Why is it a token and not a cryptocurrency? I also do not see a multifirm algorithm, I do not see a burn algorithm .... Also, there is no market volume at the Exchange House recognized ... Please explain why the Whitepaper is so poor?

 
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March 10, 2018, 05:38:15 AM
 #239

  • In the newest versions of the white paper there is a promise not to increase the number of petros above the original 100 million but there is so far no technological guarantee. In earlier versions the possibility to add further petros was explicitly contemplated.

Can you prove that? I think this is one of your FUD lies.

I've always read, on all versions of the White Paper, that the total number is 100,000,000 and will not change. Which is in the Government interest, obviously. I don't want to enter into a polemic here: just show the evidence of what you say or we assume it's a lie.


Look at the truth, politics does not interest me, what worries me is that I read everything, the Whitepaper and everything that has to do with the Petro, the truth, at one time I thought that this VAT would be the way out of the economic crisis. , but why do people look for a token or ico instead of the currency? Do not you think it was better to do a project with Airdrops? where instead of giving in each Airdrop that people can trade with Bs? because if you go to Localbitcoins, you know very well that it will be bought at the price of a black dollar, and many people do not have the money for that, in Venezuela there is still a possibility, there are many professional engineers who handle this. the technology (not the Bolivarian or Cuba), the National Public Universities, UCV, USB, UC, LUZ, ULA, UNET, why do they let so many talents go? what they are doing can be improved, this has no privacy, it has a totally centralized tint, it is not affiliated with recognized exchanges, it will never reach a big market if it is not in Big Exchanges, if you know that you know it is like that ... Remember that It's the riches of a nation that are driving, I think the president has no idea about this technology, but you do, and you know that he has no legs or head, I am not a spammer, but the truth is that I want me to you convince that it really is like that. You have a real technical document, that Whitepaper you apologize, but the whitepaper was made by a kindergartner? because it's very bad, I'm telling you, so you can correct it, if you need help, ask it! nobody knows everything, but if you recognize that this lack of professional help to seek help is not cowardly, believe me this technical document is shameful. I recommend that you change this quickly, delete it and do a cryptocurrency, but from token or ico to currency? It is very impossible! If you do not believe me, investigate a little more. You also will not put the algorithm because you know it's the easiest thing that exists, a 5-year-old can make a coin in 5 minutes with an ERC20 algorithm, and you know ... I really want this recommendation to reach whoever has to arrive and achieve to correct.

 
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taseenb
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March 10, 2018, 05:14:08 PM
 #240

Petro was announced in December 2017. How many crypto projects have you seen developed in such a short time? None.
They are fighting against time and it is true that they are working in record times to deliver an unprecedented currency. Petro's WP has always been presented as a BETA.
I personally prefer that they take all the time they need to deliver something good and stable. But i also understand that they need it asap, and they will do whatever it takes to be out in the market asap. Updates will come.

Venezuela is under heavy attack, if you ignore this context you will never understand what Petro is about and its development. This is not a comfortable startup in San Francisco trying to make some money, it's a government that is introducing a new currency in its legal, financial and commercial system. The aspects involved here are not just technological. Experts in administration, law, public and private finance, banking, blockchain technology and more have been involved to create something that has never been done before.
I strongly believe that this is a great project with huge potential. I cannot promise this is going to succeed because the enemies of this project are very powerful, and Petro has many more enemies than Bitcoin has ever had. But as we know, blockchain is a technology that works around big centralised powers and was conceived exactly with that in mind, so it CAN work.

I suggest this approach. Skepticism and questions are ALWAYS good. Lies, smears, bias, ignorance, FUD aren't good. Stick to the facts, be curious.
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