Was Sergei Skripal poisoned by the Russians?

[Jet Cash]

When I first hear about it, I thought the timing seemed a bit odd, and, on the face of it, Russia would seem to have more to lose by his death at this time, than they have to gain. If they really wanted to get rid of him, they could have faked an accident rather than risk world condemnation.

Some background is strating to be found. It seems that it may be a contract killer, and not a Russian agent that was the perpetrator. There is also evidence that Skripal was associated with the Clintons, and recent investigations by Donald Trump seem to have resulted in a number of accidental and other deaths of people who may have been in a position to give evidence. Russia is starting to become a major world commercial power, and many of their changes must be worrying for the Deep State. Russia is producing some of the healthiest food in the world which will mess up their eugenics programme, and their oil exports supporting the Petro-Yuan must be damaging the dollar. I'm sure you are aware of many other actions by Russia that are helping us to move towards world peace. The Deep State hates world peace, and it loves war and the profits and death that result from it.

So what do you think? Was it a Deep State incident to attempt to destabilise world peace?

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[MJK_Anfaenger]

I think Skripal's and Glushkov's deaths were Russian hit jobs. The used nerve gas, according to the newspapers I read, is of soviet origin. So either they used it themselves, which is bad, or they let it get taken from them, which is worse in a way. In any case, I don't think Russia has much to lose. In the eyes of the west it's a rouge state anyway and it's already heavily sanctioned. This might be a demonstration of power to the UK, EU and US, maybe? London's financial sector is heavily dependent on Russian money and because of Brexit they're more and more isolated, so maybe this is like a foretaste of what is to come?

On the other hand, being excluded from Swift or having the accounts of oligarchs frozen might threaten Putin's reign, so that puzzles me.

I'm not sure why you think that Russia is becoming a major world commercial power, though. It certainly doesn't show in the country's wealth. I've been there, just last year. Their supermarkets look deplorable, prices are pretty much the same and more compared to what I'm used to in Germany (where people have much higher average income) and maaany empty aisles. In a Subway I went to, they had to switch out the lettuce for cabbage cause they couldn't get any, due to sanctions. And so many Russians I talked to told me of the everyday corruption in the country. How money has to change hands to get things done. Parking ticket? Bribe. Doctor's visit? Bribe. That's just anecdotal evidence, but it certainly left an impression on me.

More generally speaking, the ruble is basically worthless right now and their GDP and economic growth has fallen drastically in the last few years. Plus, their economy is heavily dependent on selling crude oil. Global need for oil will shrink in the foreseeable future, what with the influx of electric cars and many states turning to cleaner energy. So I disagree with you... on pretty much everything you've said. Especially the deep state stuff. That seems a bit wild to me.

[Schirer]

When I first hear about it, I thought the timing seemed a bit odd, and, on the face of it, Russia would seem to have more to lose by his death at this time, than they have to gain. If they really wanted to get rid of him, they could have faked an accident rather than risk world condemnation.

Some background is strating to be found. It seems that it may be a contract killer, and not a Russian agent that was the perpetrator. There is also evidence that Skripal was associated with the Clintons, and recent investigations by Donald Trump seem to have resulted in a number of accidental and other deaths of people who may have been in a position to give evidence. Russia is starting to become a major world commercial power, and many of their changes must be worrying for the Deep State. Russia is producing some of the healthiest food in the world which will mess up their eugenics programme, and their oil exports supporting the Petro-Yuan must be damaging the dollar. I'm sure you are aware of many other actions by Russia that are helping us to move towards world peace. The Deep State hates world peace, and it loves war and the profits and death that result from it.

So what do you think? Was it a Deep State incident to attempt to destabilise world peace?

What they can lose rather than gain?
The timing is perfect, align with upcoming elections of Putin's imperial Russia.

And the manner how you describe the world peace efforts by Russia is very disturbing, you write in an intelligent manner but in the same time, you are completely on different plannet. Simple knowledge about Ukraine would make any intelegent man understand that Russia is very far from world peace and their gov has nothing, absolutely nothing to be proud of.

[paulmaritz]

When I first hear about it, I thought the timing seemed a bit odd, and, on the face of it, Russia would seem to have more to lose by his death at this time, than they have to gain. If they really wanted to get rid of him, they could have faked an accident rather than risk world condemnation.

Some background is strating to be found. It seems that it may be a contract killer, and not a Russian agent that was the perpetrator. There is also evidence that Skripal was associated with the Clintons, and recent investigations by Donald Trump seem to have resulted in a number of accidental and other deaths of people who may have been in a position to give evidence. Russia is starting to become a major world commercial power, and many of their changes must be worrying for the Deep State. Russia is producing some of the healthiest food in the world which will mess up their eugenics programme, and their oil exports supporting the Petro-Yuan must be damaging the dollar. I'm sure you are aware of many other actions by Russia that are helping us to move towards world peace. The Deep State hates world peace, and it loves war and the profits and death that result from it.

So what do you think? Was it a Deep State incident to attempt to destabilise world peace?

In my analysis it was a false flag and non-event designed to further swing public opinion against Russia. To further build the case for war against Russia (through BS and lies) - and a world war for that matter. They have zero proof that the Russians did it. The Russians are even willing to fully cooperate in any investigation, but have asked for a sample of the agent first.

The Russians had nothing to gain through the alleged attack. It is the hidden and warmongering controllers of corrupt Western officials who stand to benefit from it. They want war at any cost and don't care about how many people will lose their lives at either end, because they will hide in the safest countries and the best bunkers money can buy. They use false flag and non-events to scare the public into submission while pretending to be public protectors. They are using the same strategy to swing public opinion against decentralized cryptos in order to bring in centralized cryptos that will make it possible to control every transaction. In terms of the ongoing war against Russia, it is all about control and manipulating public opinion to justify an unjust hot war against Russia and her allies at the end of the day. This while encircling Russia with their armies and trying to gain first strike capability in terms of a nuclear strike.

Lucky for the world, the Russians have developed cutting edge nuclear capable weapons, designed to maintain a balance of power. However, make no mistake, when push comes to shove - the Russians will be left with no choice but to respond aggressively. They have so far been very patient and is in the business of advocating peace in a multi-polar world - a world where we can all get along, despite our differences.

[guybrushthreepwood]

Well looking at the incident at face value it would be logical to assume Russia did it but things are not always as they seem and you have to look at what happens as a result of the incident. If somebody wanted to pin something on the Russians then it would be quite easy to make it look like it was them and the public would be fooled, but I would personally need more evidence before I made my mind up on either side. The Father and Daughter were found on a park bench in a very public place so there must have been quite a lot of CCTV of the attackers getting there.



Also, isn't it a bit cliche for Russians to use a nerve agent and that specific one that would immediately draw ties to them? Why wouldn't they just quietly track them down and take them out with a bullet to the head or poison them in some other way (fentanyl has been used in assassinations and is quite effective in small doses). Something seems fishy to me but I wont jump to conclusions until I've seen more evidence either way.

[Jet Cash]

London's financial sector is heavily dependent on Russian money and because of Brexit they're more and more isolated, so maybe this is like a foretaste of what is to come?

On the other hand, being excluded from Swift or having the accounts of oligarchs frozen might threaten Putin's reign, so that puzzles me.

I'm not sure if you mean Russia or the UK is becoming more isolated. Shaking off the shackles of the Keiser Reich will release the UK from the isolation of the EU, and will allow it to rebuild its old trading relationships. Sanctioning Russia has been counter productive, and has led to the establishment of a Asian alternative to Swift, and I understand that this is being supported by the UK.

I'm a bit suspicious of the whole situation. I think the fact that the attempt failed may indicate that it wasn't a Russian military excercise. They don't seem to fail very often. The timing is also a bit suspicious. We know that the Deep State needs a major event to try to recover some of their declining power, and to create an alternative economy. A war is their tradition method of doing this, and I hope that reason will prevail, and we can avoid this. It wouldn't be difficult for the Deep State to get hold of some of the 20 year old poison, and it could be that the fact that it is old stock was the reason for its failure. Hopefully we will get some more information, so that we can establish the culpability and purpose of this event.

[signalbitbot]

When I first hear about it, I thought the timing seemed a bit odd, and, on the face of it, Russia would seem to have more to lose by his death at this time, than they have to gain. If they really wanted to get rid of him, they could have faked an accident rather than risk world condemnation.

Some background is strating to be found. It seems that it may be a contract killer, and not a Russian agent that was the perpetrator. There is also evidence that Skripal was associated with the Clintons, and recent investigations by Donald Trump seem to have resulted in a number of accidental and other deaths of people who may have been in a position to give evidence. Russia is starting to become a major world commercial power, and many of their changes must be worrying for the Deep State. Russia is producing some of the healthiest food in the world which will mess up their eugenics programme, and their oil exports supporting the Petro-Yuan must be damaging the dollar. I'm sure you are aware of many other actions by Russia that are helping us to move towards world peace. The Deep State hates world peace, and it loves war and the profits and death that result from it.

So what do you think? Was it a Deep State incident to attempt to destabilise world peace?

This is a political game.
We need facts, as well as poisoned and what substances, analyzes, international. The media can write anything. From the news we can already conclude that the Russian special services are all-powerful and everywhere =)
You agree with me?

[signalbitbot]

Well looking at the incident at face value it would be logical to assume Russia did it but things are not always as they seem and you have to look at what happens as a result of the incident. If somebody wanted to pin something on the Russians then it would be quite easy to make it look like it was them and the public would be fooled, but I would personally need more evidence before I made my mind up on either side. The Father and Daughter were found on a park bench in a very public place so there must have been quite a lot of CCTV of the attackers getting there.



Also, isn't it a bit cliche for Russians to use a nerve agent and that specific one that would immediately draw ties to them? Why wouldn't they just quietly track them down and take them out with a bullet to the head or poison them in some other way (fentanyl has been used in assassinations and is quite effective in small doses). Something seems fishy to me but I wont jump to conclusions until I've seen more evidence either way.

Yes! We need evidence and a thorough public investigation. Without harsh, thoughtless conclusions.

[MJK_Anfaenger]

Yeah, I meant UK

Shaking off the shackles of the Keiser Reich will release the UK from the isolation of the EU

Snap, you got me there, one less country to serve our Kaiserreich. You're right tho, there's hundreds of countries who just can't wait to offer this little island super favorable trading conditions, now that it won't be part of the largest market in the world any more. There's a new golden age dawning my friend, what with the UK's unresolved border issues, its major companies preparing travel plans to the mainland and its political leaders running around like headless chickens and backstabbing each other, mark my words.

[Jet Cash]

England is the mainland - Ireland and the Isle of Wight are the surrounding islands.

The EU puts 80% of it's derivatives and other financial transactions through London, How are they going to replace that? - they don't even speak  English.

We import twice as much from the EU as we export to them, how are they going to cope with that?

And what about all the money that it sucks out of our economy. I suspect it will go bust without it.

But you are right about our politicians - they are Unicorns - The Unicorn was a man made creation to lead free spirited wild horses into capitivity, and that is wht they have been doing for years.

Oh Yes - the borders. That's something that needs to be sorted out by the Irish, and not the Deep State warmongers.

Is the ring fenced EU the largest market in the world? They aren't even talking to the Chinese about the Belt and Road initiative - the UK and America are. That's probably going to be the major trading initiative in the future.

[Kleo-kripto]

My heart is bursting with unjust attacks on Russia. These are all the political games that are conducted before the presidential elections to aggravate and so uneasy political situation.
I'm sorry for those people who learn the truth from the media in Britain and the US. They will never let you know the truth. Simple people will only know what the media will give them.

[MJK_Anfaenger]

I meant 'mainland' as in 'the continent', sorry for the confusion.

To get to your points:

We import twice as much from the EU as we export to them, how are they going to cope with that?

So you're saying that the EU will be hurt, because the UK is heavily reliant on EU imports? I think you might have it backwards. While the UK is a very important trading partner, it's not the most important one. The EU on the other hand, is the UK's largest trading partner - the most important one. 43% of all UK exports go to the EU (http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7851#fullreport).

And what about all the money that it sucks out of our economy. I suspect it will go bust without it.

According to a report by the Office for Budget Responsibility "The UK will save no money from leaving the European Union over the next five years and could be paying its Brexit divorce bill until at least 2064" (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/13/uk-save-money-brexit-obr-divorce-bill)

A leaked government report shows that any Brexit scenario will negatively impact the British economy. New trade deals will not even come close to replacing what is lost by leaving the EU (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/30/key-questions-latest-leaked-brexit-forecasts)

So no, no one seriously claims that the EU is "sucking out money" out of the UK's economy - not even May and her cabinet.

Oh Yes - the borders. That's something that needs to be sorted out by the Irish

Eh, I'm pretty sure that's very much in the UK's own interest, especially since they're the ones that started this whole Brexit circus. Having a land border with the EU would mean you'd have to put up border controls, basically dividing both countries. You'd have to put in some kind of police/military presence, too. Hmmm, I wonder if that could be a sensitive issue for anyone... nope, can't think of anyone...

I don't know enough about how Brexit might impact EU finances - but rest assured that most Europeans speak English to some extent, especially those working in finance. It's not difficult

[paulmaritz]

They will start another world war before they will allow Brexit to happen for real. Brexit is currently nothing but smoke and mirrors - designed to fool and cheat Brexit voters. Theresa May was never in favor of Brexit, yet was appointed to lead the charge. They are toying with Brexit voters like a cat is toying with a mouse. It is a complete disgrace.

[Jet Cash]

They will start another world war before they will allow Brexit to happen for real. Brexit is currently nothing but smoke and mirrors - designed to fool and cheat Brexit voters. Theresa May was never in favor of Brexit, yet was appointed to lead the charge. They are toying with Brexit voters like a cat is toying with a mouse. It is a complete disgrace.

Theresa May is a deep state Unicorn politician. Brexit will happen, or there will be a revolution.

Re: the Skripal poisoning.

It's looking more and more as if Russia was not involved. The poison was created in 1990 cold war period. Since then the Russia has agreed not to use chemical weapons, and their stockpile was destroyed, and this has been verified. The formula for the nerve agent is now in the public domain, so anyone could create it. I'm beginning to believe that the incident was ordered by the deep state, and is an attempt to get Russia removed from the United Nations security council.

[MJK_Anfaenger]

They will start another world war before they will allow Brexit to happen for real. Brexit is currently nothing but smoke and mirrors - designed to fool and cheat Brexit voters. Theresa May was never in favor of Brexit, yet was appointed to lead the charge. They are toying with Brexit voters like a cat is toying with a mouse. It is a complete disgrace.

Theresa May is a deep state Unicorn politician. Brexit will happen, or there will be a revolution.

Re: the Skripal poisoning.

It's looking more and more as if Russia was not involved. The poison was created in 1990 cold war period. Since then the Russia has agreed not to use chemical weapons, and their stockpile was destroyed, and this has been verified. The formula for the nerve agent is now in the public domain, so anyone could create it. I'm beginning to believe that the incident was ordered by the deep state, and is an attempt to get Russia removed from the United Nations security council.

Would you be so kind as to provide a source for any of these claims? One that is not Breitbart or Russia Today? Because according to Hamish de Bretton-Gordon, former head of the Joint Chemical, Biological, Radiation and Nuclear Regiment, Novichock nerve agents were only ever made in central Russia (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43377698)

You seem to not trust the UK government very much - fair enough. However, you trust the Russian government that they didn't hide away some of their chemical weapons? Or that they didn't lie when they agreed to never use chemical weapons? Seems a bit paradoxical to me.

[Jet Cash]

I don't really trust any government.

A quote from the article in your link

Novichok's existence was revealed by chemist Dr Vil Mirzayanov in the 1990s, via Russian media. He later defected to the US, where he published the chemical formula in his book, State Secrets.

So as I stated, the formula is in the public domain, and it could be manufactured by anybody.

[paulmaritz]

I don't really trust any government.

A quote from the article in your link

Novichok's existence was revealed by chemist Dr Vil Mirzayanov in the 1990s, via Russian media. He later defected to the US, where he published the chemical formula in his book, State Secrets.

So as I stated, the formula is in the public domain, and it could be manufactured by anybody.

Correct. It is published in State Secrets: An Insider's Chronicle of the Russian Chemical Weapons Program by Vil S Mirzayanov. I don't know for how long it will stay up, but it is currently available for purchase at Amazon.

[MJK_Anfaenger]

the formula is in the public domain, and it could be manufactured by anybody

Yeah, alright, I agree with your first point, it's in the public domain. I don't know the first thing about chemical weapons, but claiming that "anyone" could manufacture them, seems to be a bit of a stretch to me, though. I can imagine that getting the chemicals, the facilities, personnel and equipment necessary to produce these nerve agents is a pretty challenging and possibly very dangerous task. Something that you'd have to spend serious money on. How would a democratic country like, say, UK, keep that a secret from budget oversight committees in parliament?

[Jet Cash]

the formula is in the public domain, and it could be manufactured by anybody

Yeah, alright, I agree with your first point, it's in the public domain. I don't know the first thing about chemical weapons, but claiming that "anyone" could manufacture them, seems to be a bit of a stretch to me, though. I can imagine that getting the chemicals, the facilities, personnel and equipment necessary to produce these nerve agents is a pretty challenging and possibly very dangerous task. Something that you'd have to spend serious money on. How would a democratic country like, say, UK, keep that a secret from budget oversight committees in parliament?

Come on - the deep state owns the factories that produce the stuff. It's probably easier for them to get it than the US government.

[paulmaritz]

The British military base at Porton Down - deemed a "pioneer in chemicals research" - is more than capable of manufacturing it. Chances are that they manufactured it, but unfortunately a truly independent investigation will never be allowed to take place while the likes of Theresa May sits in government.