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Author Topic: [CryptoStocks] Satoshi Poker IPO  (Read 8025 times)
BitcoinFlush
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October 17, 2013, 08:04:20 AM
 #1

SATOSHI represents Satoshi Poker; Bitcoins premier poker site

This asset is being offered for the following purposes:
1. To provide Satoshi Poker a budget to maintain a professional team for service, marketing and security
2. To provide Satoshi Poker the funds to purchase a new software package with support for all major platforms and in-browser play
3. To provide Satoshi Poker with sufficient budgets to meet the industry standards in promotions
4. To vest our players in Satoshi Poker's future by allowing our players to become part owner, reaping the benefits of their own efforts.

Shares
Satoshi Poker consists of a total of 100,000,000 shares. No new shares will be issued and no other actions will be taken that dilude the shareholders that purchase the shares.

Dividends
Dividends will be paid on the 1st of every calendar month and will consist of 50% of the total rake and tournament fees collected, equally devided amongst all the shares. Upon paying the dividends Satoshi Poker will release detailed financial statements with their income, expenditures, player balances and other reserved funds.

Initial Public Offering
The Initial Public Offering will consist of 20,000,000 shares representing 20% of the company, released in 5 batches, with the first 4M shares against a 0.0002 share price. Next releases will be posted according to market price.

Reserved Rights
Issuer reserves the following rights:
1. To do a Second Public Offering if market demands justifies
2. To make changes to this contract that represent the best interests of its shareholders
3. To correct and clarify any gross errors or details herein that may prove to be open to misinterpretation

Voting Rights
There are no voting rights associated with the shares.

Dissolution
In the event that the issuer chooses to, or is forced to, close this asset for any reason, a new operator may be vetted and chosen by the current CEO to take over control of the asset, or all shares will be bought back by the issuer.

Links
The asset is listed at: https://cryptostocks.com/securities/55

Issuer Info
BitcoinFlush is trusted member of the bitcointalk.org forums. Identity information has been provided privately to cryptostocks as a gesture of good faith, and an avenue for emergency contact.

A “dead man’s switch” will be implemented in order to pass control of this asset to a safe secondary operator in the case of the issuer’s untimely demise or hospitalization.

Disclaimer & Risks
Bitcoin’s legal definition as a currency, commodity, investment, or financial instrument may be subject to unique regulations in some jurisdictions. The issuance of bitcoin-denominated securities may be considered high-risk in the current environment. Please perform due diligence in all of your investment decisions, and consider all risks before purchase.

While all investments involve risk, bitcoin securities may be considered among the most risky. Some have products and services that are still in development or have yet to be tested in the market. Many trade on unregistered exchanges.

Possible risks that pertains to bitcoin securities involves the low volumes of trades. Because most bitcoin securities trade in low volumes, any size of trade can have a large percentage impact on the market price of the security.

Satoshi Poker is not liable for losses caused by default/theft within the host exchange.

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BitcoinFlush
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October 17, 2013, 08:37:05 AM
 #2

So you're giving yourself 80%.
Usually when you own a company and sell 20% then yes, you still own the other 80%  Wink

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October 17, 2013, 08:41:24 AM
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And you're basing your valuation on what revenue and profitability numbers?

BitcoinFlush
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October 17, 2013, 08:52:28 AM
 #4

And you're basing your valuation on what revenue and profitability numbers?
For over 2 months we have been averaging between 2.5 and 4 btc per day in rake and tournament fees. With this investment we can purchase superior software and grow to become a top5 pokersite.

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October 17, 2013, 08:59:08 AM
 #5

Quote
Dividends will be paid on the 1st of every calendar month and will consist of 50% of the total rake and tournament fees collected, equally devided amongst all the shares. Upon paying the dividends Satoshi Poker will release detailed financial statements with their income, expenditures, player balances and other reserved funds.
Where do the other 50% of total rake / fees go? Surely your costs won't match exactly that amount every month.

Quote
The Initial Public Offering will consist of 20,000,000 shares representing 20% of the company, released in 5 batches, with the first 4M shares against a 0.0002 share price.
Like pankkake said, this means you're valueing the company at 20000 BTC, of which you own 80%. What is the justification for such a high valuation? Where are your volume/profit statistics for recent months that can give investors an idea of the expected returns?

Quote
In the event that the issuer chooses to, or is forced to, close this asset for any reason, a new operator may be vetted and chosen by the current CEO to take over control of the asset, or all bonds will be bought back by the issuer.
Bought back at what price? Currently this contract allows for 1 satoshi buybacks. Also, why are you calling the things bonds here while they're called shares elsewhere (and are, in fact, neither)?

edit: revenue info was posted while I was busy typing this post.
2.5-4 BTC per day. Lets take the upper bound of 4 BTC. Investments may make the company grow, so lets insta-boost it to 10 BTC per day for the sake of arguement. The shares receive half of this, so 5 BTC per day. For a company valued at 20000 BTC, that's a return of 0.025% per day or 9% per year, which in Bitcoin terms is very low, below most bonds issued by people with at least as much reputation. And unlike bonds, these shares don't have a guaranteed face value, so carry more risks.

The option of further batches to be release at market price is a great way to ensure that the market price won't be going up. If the market price at some point is 0.0002 and a new 4M ask is places at that value, the price isn't going to move upwards for a long time until the batch is sold out. This makes releasing batches beyond the first against the best interest of people buying shares in the first batch.
BitcoinFlush
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October 17, 2013, 09:03:46 AM
 #6

Quote
Dividends will be paid on the 1st of every calendar month and will consist of 50% of the total rake and tournament fees collected, equally devided amongst all the shares. Upon paying the dividends Satoshi Poker will release detailed financial statements with their income, expenditures, player balances and other reserved funds.
Where do the other 50% of total rake / fees go? Surely your costs won't match exactly that amount every month.

Quote
The Initial Public Offering will consist of 20,000,000 shares representing 20% of the company, released in 5 batches, with the first 4M shares against a 0.0002 share price.
Like pankkake said, this means you're valueing the company at 20000 BTC, of which you own 80%. What is the justification for such a high valuation? Where are your volume/profit statistics for recent months that can give investors an idea of the expected returns?

Quote
In the event that the issuer chooses to, or is forced to, close this asset for any reason, a new operator may be vetted and chosen by the current CEO to take over control of the asset, or all bonds will be bought back by the issuer.
Bought back at what price? Currently this contract allows for 1 satoshi buybacks. Also, why are you calling the things bonds here while they're called shares elsewhere (and are, in fact, neither)?
Bonds was a mistake by my textwriter for which my apologoes.
The other 50% of rake goes to rakeback for our players (20%), affiliate bonusses (5%) and operational costs.

Let's color the MOON: Y1Dxt2kmHoRRWPBEeKv9rzCfcA7EvrWv82
Rannasha
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October 17, 2013, 09:07:01 AM
 #7

Quote
Dividends will be paid on the 1st of every calendar month and will consist of 50% of the total rake and tournament fees collected, equally devided amongst all the shares. Upon paying the dividends Satoshi Poker will release detailed financial statements with their income, expenditures, player balances and other reserved funds.
Where do the other 50% of total rake / fees go? Surely your costs won't match exactly that amount every month.

Quote
The Initial Public Offering will consist of 20,000,000 shares representing 20% of the company, released in 5 batches, with the first 4M shares against a 0.0002 share price.
Like pankkake said, this means you're valueing the company at 20000 BTC, of which you own 80%. What is the justification for such a high valuation? Where are your volume/profit statistics for recent months that can give investors an idea of the expected returns?

Quote
In the event that the issuer chooses to, or is forced to, close this asset for any reason, a new operator may be vetted and chosen by the current CEO to take over control of the asset, or all bonds will be bought back by the issuer.
Bought back at what price? Currently this contract allows for 1 satoshi buybacks. Also, why are you calling the things bonds here while they're called shares elsewhere (and are, in fact, neither)?
Bonds was a mistake by my textwriter for which my apologoes.
The other 50% of rake goes to rakeback for our players (20%), affiliate bonusses (5%) and operational costs.

So operational costs are always 25%? What if they go significantly below that? Will the difference be distributed to shareholders? And what if the costs increase to above 25% of the income? Where will this money come from.

Note that I made an edit to my previous post which concerns the expected revenue for shareholders and the problems with releasing further batches of shares at unnanounced times and at market price rather than a pre-determined price.
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October 17, 2013, 09:14:36 AM
 #8

Quote
Dividends will be paid on the 1st of every calendar month and will consist of 50% of the total rake and tournament fees collected, equally devided amongst all the shares. Upon paying the dividends Satoshi Poker will release detailed financial statements with their income, expenditures, player balances and other reserved funds.
Where do the other 50% of total rake / fees go? Surely your costs won't match exactly that amount every month.

Quote
The Initial Public Offering will consist of 20,000,000 shares representing 20% of the company, released in 5 batches, with the first 4M shares against a 0.0002 share price.
Like pankkake said, this means you're valueing the company at 20000 BTC, of which you own 80%. What is the justification for such a high valuation? Where are your volume/profit statistics for recent months that can give investors an idea of the expected returns?

Quote
In the event that the issuer chooses to, or is forced to, close this asset for any reason, a new operator may be vetted and chosen by the current CEO to take over control of the asset, or all bonds will be bought back by the issuer.
Bought back at what price? Currently this contract allows for 1 satoshi buybacks. Also, why are you calling the things bonds here while they're called shares elsewhere (and are, in fact, neither)?
Bonds was a mistake by my textwriter for which my apologoes.
The other 50% of rake goes to rakeback for our players (20%), affiliate bonusses (5%) and operational costs.

So operational costs are always 25%? What if they go significantly below that? Will the difference be distributed to shareholders? And what if the costs increase to above 25% of the income? Where will this money come from.

Note that I made an edit to my previous post which concerns the expected revenue for shareholders and the problems with releasing further batches of shares at unnanounced times and at market price rather than a pre-determined price.

Operational costs will remain below 25%. In case they run too far below it means we can expand our budgets such as marketing budget or increase our staff members if needed to further support our growth. We will however make sure that we have the funds to cover unexpected expenses in case they arise. About the future batches: every time a batch is sold out, a new one will be released at market price, allowing the people that get in early to make profit by trading their shares, instead of putting up a 20M share wall which can only look downwards untill sold out.

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Jungian
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October 17, 2013, 10:45:50 AM
 #9

How big is your current marketshare of the BTCpoker market?

I think Monero (XMR) is very interesting.
https://moneroeconomy.com/faq/why-monero-matters
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October 17, 2013, 11:40:24 AM
 #10

So you're giving yourself 80%.
Usually when you own a company and sell 20% then yes, you still own the other 80%  Wink



THIS is an arguement against SCAM. The owner believes in his product and the potential. Otherwise he would sell 100%.

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October 17, 2013, 11:45:52 AM
 #11

with such a pricy IPO you could hire me as a customer support maybe.
Why do you need 100 mio shares? This sounds to me like potential labcoin 2.0

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PRIMEDICE
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SNttx1hwtpf8TQEK7ZBojcvQrDmBaz9QPK SFC Addy
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October 17, 2013, 01:03:47 PM
 #12

Having been a professional online poker player for the last 6 years, I can honestly say this does not appear to be a good investment. How you ever think you can compete with Pokerstars, Full Tilt, IPoker etc is beyond me. Jeez even SealsWithClubs at least has poker players with good credibilty behind it - what do you have? Their marketing budgets are measured in the tens of millions of dollars per annum how are you ever going to compete with that?

Suggesting you are aiming to be a top 5 poker site is literally the most lol thing I have heard in years. I would happily bet $10,000 that you do not achieve that in the next 5 years.

You don't even state how your going to achieve critical mass?

You  can't compete on prizepools.

You can't compete on software.

You can't compete on rakeback.

You just can't compete - if bitcoin poker ever takes off in a big way then the big sites will simply start accepting bitcoins. In fact there is already an iPoker skin that accepts bitcoin deposits.


I am your number one target customer ( I rake well in excess of $100k a year) and not one thing about your site makes me want to play there.
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October 17, 2013, 01:04:02 PM
 #13

First of all, this might be the biggest overvaluation in the history of all valuations I've ever seen. The site hardly gets any traffic whatsoever and the little action there is, is freeroll action. Letsbehonestfor1second.

OP even blatantly lies in the post above where he says:

And you're basing your valuation on what revenue and profitability numbers?
For over 2 months we have been averaging between 2.5 and 4 btc per day in rake and tournament fees. With this investment we can purchase superior software and grow to become a top5 pokersite.

-The site has a Bad-beat-jackpot counter that has barely moved since the sites inceptions,  its only +1.4 bitcoins. (10bitcoin manually added day1) How can that be with up to 4bitcoin in rake&fees a day? Please explain. This just appears like another lie/halftruth I've come across by you guys.

Also the timing is very peculiar as it is well know that a large poker project is announcing its presence with a Beta in a few weeks.. Are you guys aware? the timing might definitely suggest so... Not only that, Seals is also planning a new software release in a couple months... Maybe that would be relevant to mention to your investors??
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October 17, 2013, 01:29:24 PM
 #14

with such a pricy IPO you could hire me as a customer support maybe.
Why do you need 100 mio shares? This sounds to me like potential labcoin 2.0

When we had our first angel investor back in April, he suggested this amount of shares to be issued, as when the site gets really big, shares would become unaffordable lateron. We have always had the company cut up in 100M shares for every pre-ipo investment and now we IPO i feel no need to change that. I have no idea what happened with labcoin, I run a poker business, not a fictional value creation system.

Let's color the MOON: Y1Dxt2kmHoRRWPBEeKv9rzCfcA7EvrWv82
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October 17, 2013, 01:31:36 PM
 #15

THIS is an arguement against SCAM. The owner believes in his product and the potential. Otherwise he would sell 100%.
You do not understand at all how it works. He didn't pay for the 80%, it's an arbitrary percentage. He's actually giving himself 80%, so he can sell it, or keep 80% of the profits, while YOU provide most of the actual capital.

Actually, your math is kinda off here. Me and previous investors together owned 100% and we choose to sell 20% of the shares to the public. This is pretty standard IPO procedure, especially considering that most assets only sell 5% of their shares at IPO. I understand you are not interested in this investment, so I wish you good luck finding an investment opportunity that grasps your interest.

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October 17, 2013, 01:36:19 PM
 #16

For over 2 months we have been averaging between 2.5 and 4 btc per day in rake and tournament fees.

The 2.5 - 5 BTC in Rake per day, to me, definitely needs some further insight. I follow you guys passively and you seem to have a big challenge getting traffic, and if there is action it's 99% freerolls.
With the 2% rake that would mean you have a minimum of 125 BTC worth of rake-able pots/mtt-fees per day. To be honest I have a very hard time seeing how you would come anywhere near that amount?

I also feel 4000 BTC is an awful lot of bitcoins (and an even crazier valuation) to ask for just a "brand". As I see it you don't have any significant traction & you don't have a product. Or at least you don't have a product that you feel is valuable to carry the business forward seeing you require the bitcoin to acquire new software.
How much does Enterra asks for the software anyway?

Before you start asking for 4000 BTC, you'll need to (1) expand a bit on your current assets, revenue, growth, .. (2) convince people why you feel 20K is fair, cause that's one hell of a valuation

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October 17, 2013, 01:39:09 PM
 #17

First of all, this might be the biggest overvaluation in the history of all valuations I've ever seen. The site hardly gets any traffic whatsoever and the little action there is, is freeroll action. Letsbehonestfor1second.

OP even blatantly lies in the post above where he says:

And you're basing your valuation on what revenue and profitability numbers?
For over 2 months we have been averaging between 2.5 and 4 btc per day in rake and tournament fees. With this investment we can purchase superior software and grow to become a top5 pokersite.

-The site has a Bad-beat-jackpot counter that has barely moved since the sites inceptions,  its only +1.4 bitcoins. (10bitcoin manually added day1) How can that be with up to 4bitcoin in rake&fees a day? Please explain. This just appears like another lie/halftruth I've come across by you guys.

Also the timing is very peculiar, as it is well-know that a large poker project is announcing its presence with a Beta in a few weeks.. Are you guys aware? the timing might definitely suggest so... Not only that, Seals is also planning a new software release in a couple months... Maybe that would be relevant to mention to your investors??

If you wish to use the math, then please apply it correctly before accusing me of lying. The bad beat jackpot only accounts for the table which have the tag [jackpot] on cash game holdem tables of NL20 and higher. Omaha, O8, Stud, Stud hi/lo, holdem cashgames of NL10 and lower and tables without the tag [jackpot] are not contributing to the bad beat jackpot.

Also the tournament fees are not contributing to this pot. You use a figure as measurement which can't give you any certain statistic at all. Since 2012 there are various 'big poker projects' about to launch. We chose to do this IPO now as we believe now is the right time to do it. It will give us the time for the preparation to the new software client and get our tech team together to work on it, before it's released in December. I wish to combine this with my vision to create the first community owned pokersite ever and I would need at least a month to get all the software in place, plus a talented coder.


Let's color the MOON: Y1Dxt2kmHoRRWPBEeKv9rzCfcA7EvrWv82
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October 17, 2013, 01:43:08 PM
 #18

Below is a quote from you or one of your co-workers on 2+2 - can you please explain how you are going to acquire critical mass when you can't even acquire players charging zero rake on HU games and only 1% on normal games? What is your marketing strategy because as you yourself point out undercutting all of your competition in price didn't have any impact on player numbers at all.

Rake
We had a lot of complaints from affiliates about lowering the rake to 1%. It didn't bring any extra players in but cut their affiliate income in half. Also the rake free heads up games didn't attract any attention or didn't get any more tables started.

The rake system is now installed as follows and will not be changed in the near future:

Base rake: 2%
Rake cap: 100 chips (0.01 btc)
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October 17, 2013, 01:50:19 PM
 #19

Having been a professional online poker player for the last 6 years, I can honestly say this does not appear to be a good investment. How you ever think you can compete with Pokerstars, Full Tilt, IPoker etc is beyond me. Jeez even SealsWithClubs at least has poker players with good credibilty behind it - what do you have? Their marketing budgets are measured in the tens of millions of dollars per annum how are you ever going to compete with that?

Suggesting you are aiming to be a top 5 poker site is literally the most lol thing I have heard in years. I would happily bet $10,000 that you do not achieve that in the next 5 years.

You don't even state how your going to achieve critical mass?

You  can't compete on prizepools.

You can't compete on software.

You can't compete on rakeback.

You just can't compete - if bitcoin poker ever takes off in a big way then the big sites will simply start accepting bitcoins. In fact there is already an iPoker skin that accepts bitcoin deposits.


I am your number one target customer ( I rake well in excess of $100k a year) and not one thing about your site makes me want to play there.

We can't yet compete on prizepools but we are able to market in fenced markets as the US, China, Italia, Spain and so on. Pokerstars can't legally service some of the countries and in other countries it needs to cooperate with governments to make sure its players pay taxes over their winnings. Players who play a lot will look at what is losing them the most money. As satoshi-poker grows, the prizepools will grow. And if ipoker network would ban the bots you will see that it is pretty much a ghost town as well. They choose to make artificial traffic just as Full Tilt did back in the days which got them to 2nd place in traffic and diving down after banning them. We believe we actually have an advantage over other sites being able to market in markets where they can't move to.

I believe we can compete on software, which is why i want to purchase this software package and get dedicated coders on board to lift it up even more.

You are right that we can't compete on rakeback, but does it matter? World's leading site Pokersite doesn't offer its players rakeback. Do players stay away for this? I believe not. Besides that, we do offer rakeback and offer currently the lowest rake in the industry (except for the rake-free btcontilt) on our cash game tables. I believe that our rake structure is competitive enough to be able to win that battle.

If bitcoin poker ever takes off in a big way then big sites will simply start adapting bitcoins? That would still not allow them to move into the specified markets, unless they start refusing fiat currency. Even if Stars would accept bitcoins they couldn't move to the US market

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October 17, 2013, 01:50:47 PM
 #20

I wish to combine this with my vision to create the first community owned pokersite ever and I would need at least a month to get all the software in place, plus a talented coder.
So you don't have a developer aboard already? "visions" are worthless. See http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1olur1/developer_rant_bitcoin_entrepreneurs_are_getting/
Thanks for the link. I will read it later.

Let's color the MOON: Y1Dxt2kmHoRRWPBEeKv9rzCfcA7EvrWv82
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