Bitcoin Forum
May 26, 2024, 05:01:31 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 2 [3]  All
  Print  
Author Topic: The simple and undeniable reason why all cryptocurrencies will collapse  (Read 452 times)
Dapper
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 560
Merit: 260



View Profile
March 21, 2018, 12:58:50 PM
 #41

Gold is faith based, but it's like comparing the Roman Catholic Church (gold Heraeus bars) to the Church of the Province of West Africa (btc).    They are technically both faith based, but one is much more firmly established.

sent from my X6
MoonIsBlue
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 406
Merit: 111



View Profile
March 21, 2018, 02:18:49 PM
 #42

Galileo Galilei once said, “All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.” Discovering truth about cryptocurrencies (cryptos) and showing that they are not money but faith based schemes that are bound to collapse, is the goal of this article. The first step toward achieving this goal is to explain why economic relations between people, where transfer of ownership rights is taking place, cannot be based on faith, and how, in that regard, cryptos differ from tangible goods and fiat money. After that, we will know what money actually is, and what it represents. Given this knowledge it will become clear why cryptos never were, nor ever will be money. The rest you can read here: https://cryptofraud.wordpress.com/

The monetary system as it functions today is based on faith, there's nothing backing the Dollar or Euro expect for your faith in a government. Governments can collapse you know? Your argument invalidated your argument. If you're going to say cryptocurrencies aren't currencies nevermind whether it is BTC or altcoins atleast understand the monetary system before you start arguing against them. You think that just because something is tangible it has value? Well why don't I start paying you with toilet paper instead of Fiat currency? Fiat has the intrinsic value of near nothing and is soley based in the assumption or belief that I can get something of value with my worthless papers, alteast with toiletpaper you can wipe your butt and it doesn't sting. Golds value is entirely determined by faith, and if you want to argue that gold is used for electronics and jewelry then I refute your argument by saying the value that is given to gold in that regards is only a few percent and doesn't account for the rest.

Face it, everything is based on belief. If you're going to shit on crypto atleast do it right and give some good arguments. So what is money? It is a tool to communicate value. What does it represent? Well it doesn't actually represent value or we wouldn't use valueless papers. Money represents its author and its culture. The only fraud that is being commited is by the centralized banks that print money as they please and loan money to charge interest for money that doesn't exist.

fxsurfer (OP)
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 274
Merit: 2


View Profile
March 21, 2018, 02:55:58 PM
 #43

but how will i sending immediately over the internets tangible value for my goods i wanted to order from other side the world??

this is internets money pal

we are all living in a simulation apparently where tangible is merely a matter of perspective

get with the times

If we all asked for the tangible value of our current fiat at once you  would find that little would be delivered to each of us.

It is no longer backed by gold and is just a faith based system too.

You could argue that golds value is faith based.

The only real things you need are food, water, shelter, and pussy. Trading in anything else is a leap of faith of eventually trading back into those things at an advantage.



Again, numerical values are NOT money, they are abstract mathematical objects. Money is either commodity or legally binding instrument that provides its holder with legal path to goods or services. If you give an iPhone to someone as a gift and then you mark this gift by writing a number into the computer's memory, this number won't magically become money. It's still a number. If you send it to someone, or record it on blockchain it is still... a number. Creating, transferring and storing numbers has nothing to do with money. Money is not based on faith but on legal obligations. Borrowers are legally obligated to use money for their loan payments. Legal obligation is not faith, but a duty that is enforced by a court of law. You are like a member of some crazy cult with this vehement denial of reality.
cryptohunter
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2100
Merit: 1167

MY RED TRUST LEFT BY SCUMBAGS - READ MY SIG


View Profile
March 21, 2018, 04:15:08 PM
 #44

but how will i sending immediately over the internets tangible value for my goods i wanted to order from other side the world??

this is internets money pal

we are all living in a simulation apparently where tangible is merely a matter of perspective

get with the times

If we all asked for the tangible value of our current fiat at once you  would find that little would be delivered to each of us.

It is no longer backed by gold and is just a faith based system too.

You could argue that golds value is faith based.

The only real things you need are food, water, shelter, and pussy. Trading in anything else is a leap of faith of eventually trading back into those things at an advantage.



Again, numerical values are NOT money, they are abstract mathematical objects. Money is either commodity or legally binding instrument that provides its holder with legal path to goods or services. If you give an iPhone to someone as a gift and then you mark this gift by writing a number into the computer's memory, this number won't magically become money. It's still a number. If you send it to someone, or record it on blockchain it is still... a number. Creating, transferring and storing numbers has nothing to do with money. Money is not based on faith but on legal obligations. Borrowers are legally obligated to use money for their loan payments. Legal obligation is not faith, but a duty that is enforced by a court of law. You are like a member of some crazy cult with this vehement denial of reality.

I'm not sure about this vintage distortion of reality you are clinging too

legally binding , courts of law with regard payment and receiving goods/services??  that's all useful but I'm sure most would like to see less need for such things anyway.

We are trying to build a decentralised trustless end to end arena here.


Those mechanisms you mention will soon be obsolete or greatly reduced in their role.

Double Deposit Escrow and a trustless end to end (for real currency) will obliterate the squabbling and need for middle men or centralised authorities sorting out your personal shit. The entire point is that there is not need at any point for trust so you should not be in a position not to receive your goods or services for your magic internets money.

Before we reach that stage I am not even sure why you would assume if amazon offered btc as payment and you bought an item there and paid in BTC you would have no legal right to ensure you received goods or services.

Perhaps I am not grasping your  point or else your point is soon to be pointless.

If BTC can serve as a better alternative to "money" in that i use it and get what I want.. then why even clutter the board with this kind of nonsense.









DooMAD
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3794
Merit: 3155


Leave no FUD unchallenged


View Profile
March 21, 2018, 07:41:48 PM
Last edit: March 22, 2018, 12:03:59 AM by DooMAD
 #45

Cryptography is not an enforceable instance, it is a technique for secure transmission of information. Enforceability in the context of money means that someone if legally forced to provide you with tangible goods on the bases of monetary instrument you own (borrowers in the case of fiat money). When you own crypto numbers nobody is legally forced to provide you something tangible for this numbers, which means that crypto numbers are completely useless and giving away your land, food, car, house or other tangible goods just to have this numbers is worse than the Tulip Craze in the Netherlands where people sold houses for tulips. You are literally throwing away your tangible property just because you believe that others will do the same thing. If that's not crazy than I don't know what is.

Sure, let's take the recent example where some people bought a total of 50 luxury flats from a couple in exchange for bitcoins.  Physical, tangible assets traded for some entries in the ledger.  By your logic, the couple who sold those dwellings can accept the bitcoin and then simply not give them the flats they paid for, because it's not legally enforceable, right?  Except you're wrong, because your arguments clearly fall apart the moment they're exposed to the slightest dose of reality.  Those deals are finalised.  It all looks pretty enforceable to me.  

With Bitcoin you can always choose to involve legal enforcement and contractual obligations if you desire.  You have that option.  If you want to pay some suit to draft a contract every time you transact with Bitcoin to make sure the other person doesn't try to rip you off, have fun paying for that.  It's entirely your call.  Although, in any example where properties are concerned, obviously that will almost always involve legally binding documents like deeds or lease agreements that have to be signed.  But in no way does it mean that every single transaction requires a similar level of bureaucracy and administrative labour for it to work.  In other examples of real world purchases, people are paying for their VPNs with Lightning and someone paid their prepaid phone bill too.  And standard bitcoin transactions have been used for plenty of purchases over the years.  The vast majority of them, funnily enough, not requiring a law firm on retainer to make them happen.

Please, tell us all in your infinite wisdom how they're going to overturn and reclaim that first (now notorious) "Bitcoin Pizza" just because there wasn't a lawyer involved.   Cheesy

Done deals are done.  They're not falling through or being disputed just because there isn't a notary, paralegal and judge on standby.  In fact, the number of transactions that are disputed, or where claims of scams or other fraudulent activity occur are likely in close proportion with the number of similar reports when using fiat cash.  Which makes perfect sense if Bitcoin is cash for the internet.  Any deal done as a face-to-face exchange with fiat cash where there's no receipt for the goods in question is equally as legally unenforceable as Bitcoin.  

Are you also warning people about the dangers doing fiat cash interactions without receipts too?  One might be tempted to call it hypocrisy if you aren't.  

But fine.  You stick with your precious nanny state who will happily take ever-increasing proportions of your wealth in exchange for pacifying you, mollycoddling your delicate, pampered ass and making you feel "safe".  If you want to spend money out of your pocket to make that compromise, feel free.  Everyone here has that choice, to keep some or even most of their total net worth within the traditional sovereign kleptocracy if they so wish.  How much you want to risk your exposure to that is entirely up to you.  But when the state does eventually screw you, and they will, don't say we didn't warn you.  It's their system, you're merely the fuel they burn to keep it running.

.
.HUGE.
▄██████████▄▄
▄█████████████████▄
▄█████████████████████▄
▄███████████████████████▄
▄█████████████████████████▄
███████▌██▌▐██▐██▐████▄███
████▐██▐████▌██▌██▌██▌██
█████▀███▀███▀▐██▐██▐█████

▀█████████████████████████▀

▀███████████████████████▀

▀█████████████████████▀

▀█████████████████▀

▀██████████▀▀
█▀▀▀▀











█▄▄▄▄
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
.
CASINSPORTSBOOK
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
▀▀▀▀█











▄▄▄▄█
fxsurfer (OP)
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 274
Merit: 2


View Profile
March 27, 2018, 10:39:45 AM
 #46

AGAIN, I would like to warn people that bitcoin and cryptos are not legitimate trading instruments, that they are bound to collapse, and that it is not a smart idea to buy them. I modified my article to more clearly explain why this is the case: https://cryptofraud.wordpress.com/
DooMAD
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3794
Merit: 3155


Leave no FUD unchallenged


View Profile
March 27, 2018, 11:07:45 AM
 #47

AGAIN, I would like to warn people that bitcoin and cryptos are not legitimate trading instruments, that they are bound to collapse, and that it is not a smart idea to buy them. I modified my article to more clearly explain why this is the case: https://cryptofraud.wordpress.com/

And yet you still aren't warning the public about cash being legally unenforceable in many scenarios?  People all over the world could be buying stuff from markets, garage sales, street vendors, bazaars, carnivals, festivals or boot fairs using cash right now, with no legal recourse if the goods they bought turn out to be faulty or counterfeit.  Surely someone should warn them about the complete lack of legal path to restore their ownership rights of tangible goods.  It's a total fraud.  I guess they'll just have to rely on some good old fashioned personal responsibility and common sense like those of us here in cryptoland do.   Roll Eyes


.
.HUGE.
▄██████████▄▄
▄█████████████████▄
▄█████████████████████▄
▄███████████████████████▄
▄█████████████████████████▄
███████▌██▌▐██▐██▐████▄███
████▐██▐████▌██▌██▌██▌██
█████▀███▀███▀▐██▐██▐█████

▀█████████████████████████▀

▀███████████████████████▀

▀█████████████████████▀

▀█████████████████▀

▀██████████▀▀
█▀▀▀▀











█▄▄▄▄
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
.
CASINSPORTSBOOK
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
▀▀▀▀█











▄▄▄▄█
btcbringer
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 252
Merit: 101



View Profile
March 27, 2018, 11:24:20 AM
 #48

most cryptos may collapse within two years, but there are some good and strong projects will survive, they will rule the blockchain world like MS and Google did, it is frustrating hence the market is so bad, but hope is pregnant with it
Pages: « 1 2 [3]  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!