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Author Topic: [TELEGRAM-DICE.COM][A Dice Game on Telegram] Join And Get [Free 150 Satoshi]  (Read 285 times)
TelegramSDice
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March 22, 2018, 06:33:00 PM
 #1

🤖
Welcome to SATOSHI DICE BOT a BITCOIN dice game in TELEGRAM
Start playing and enjoy free 150 satoshi
Visit https://telegram-dice.com for faucet and live data.
or join the game via: https://telegram.me/satoshi_dice_bot
  How to play?
🤖
     1. Click on [Dice] key
     2. Choose your win chance and bet
     3. Your bet amount is set by default to 0.00000010 BTC
     4. You can set your bet amount with [Set my bet amount] and enter a valid amount
     5. Minimum bet amount is 0.00000010 BTC
     6. Max profit per bet is 0.10000000 BTC

   Provably fair
🤖Update :
      To generate a roll number between 0 and 9,999 we combine your Server Seed, your Client Seed and your Nonce (Telegram Message ID).
      Bets are instantly verifiable
Update : you can now verify all bet in live data: Visit https://telegram-dice.com

If you have any question just ask, Enjoy




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March 22, 2018, 09:01:36 PM
 #2

Looks its working as I have tested few rolls, I get tx hash which I can verify on blockchain, just wondering how system picks up those numbers like its the last tx at the time of roll or system grab few tx from the latest transactions and than display result. If bet size is big than system can manipulate the result and only display tx that has last 4 letter against player  Huh

I won't be playing with bigger amount on this one but for small bets I think it will work. OP add autobet feature on your bot...

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TelegramSDice
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March 22, 2018, 10:33:55 PM
 #3

Looks its working as I have tested few rolls, I get tx hash which I can verify on blockchain, just wondering how system picks up those numbers like its the last tx at the time of roll or system grab few tx from the latest transactions and than display result. If bet size is big than system can manipulate the result and only display tx that has last 4 letter against player  Huh

I won't be playing with bigger amount on this one but for small bets I think it will work. OP add autobet feature on your bot...

Hi and thank you for your interest

1-So , the result is based in the last tx at the time of roll, and the result is instant so we can't trick the result . You can verify by your self by dooing few free roll

2- we are working in the autobet , adding x2, /2 ,max and min . The update will be done as soon as possible

Any other suggestion are welcom
Thank you
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March 22, 2018, 10:38:43 PM
 #4

If your random numbers are really created from the most recent Bitcoin transaction, that's seriously the worst idea I've ever heard of. Anybody could just wait until a transaction that gives them a favorable result comes in then immediately bet.

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March 22, 2018, 10:50:14 PM
 #5

If your random numbers are really created from the most recent Bitcoin transaction, that's seriously the worst idea I've ever heard of. Anybody could just wait until a transaction that gives them a favorable result comes in then immediately bet.

Hi
I respect your opinion , but for as it's the best provably fair option , maybe we are doing it wrong

We are in the first step of launch and test , and we will try to improve the system in the futur

Thank you for your interest
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March 22, 2018, 11:22:49 PM
 #6

I would not trust this site/bot. They claim that your roll comes from the most recent Bitcoin transaction, but the Bitcoin network receives many transactions per second, and the time for them to propagate to all nodes can be multiple seconds. Therefore every node receives transactions in a different order, and this site could simply pick a number that benefits them. As there is no way for you as a user to definitively see the number they came up with was non-biased, THIS GAME IS NOT PROVABLY FAIR.

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March 23, 2018, 09:38:20 AM
 #7

I would not trust this site/bot. They claim that your roll comes from the most recent Bitcoin transaction, but the Bitcoin network receives many transactions per second, and the time for them to propagate to all nodes can be multiple seconds. Therefore every node receives transactions in a different order, and this site could simply pick a number that benefits them. As there is no way for you as a user to definitively see the number they came up with was non-biased, THIS GAME IS NOT PROVABLY FAIR.

So claiming that you know the truth and writing it in bold and very big , is a little snooty coming from somone who are promoting another dice in his banner. Any way this is not the subject.
-Our system don't pick the best favorable tx id for the site it will be clear that we are tricking the result when many player are betting , and this give as more work to do just to create a tricker.
-the bot just compare your roll with the last tx recived , belive or not it's realy your problem
- and you claim that other dice that generate number are more provably fair ( it's your opinion too)

Our system is provably fair
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March 23, 2018, 10:58:22 AM
 #8

Gambling on Telegram ? Seriously ? Worst idea ever.Apart from the legal obligations,do you even a customer support or any point of contact if in case any issues ? Bot is not a reliable entity if you're actually serious about your business.
How can one verify if the dice rolls are provably fair ? There's no mention about it on the main thread.


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TelegramSDice
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March 23, 2018, 11:30:38 AM
 #9

Gambling on Telegram ? Seriously ? Worst idea ever.Apart from the legal obligations,do you even a customer support or any point of contact if in case any issues ? Bot is not a reliable entity if you're actually serious about your business.
How can one verify if the dice rolls are provably fair ? There's no mention about it on the main thread.

First Thank you for your interest ,
It's maybe the worst idea ever made in the univers, but we think it's better than just doing a classic clone of existing dice . Why telegram , we are devlopping  many other stuff in telegram and we thought that people can like the idea ( not you as i can see 😊)
Provably fair, for now only who bet can see the transaction id as a proof, we will add very soon this proof in the site for every bet as live data : https://telegram-dice.com
For the support a live channel will be done for suppot

Thank you
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March 23, 2018, 12:19:57 PM
 #10

Update : you can now verify all bet in live data: Visit https://telegram-dice.com

Thank you
RGBKey
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March 23, 2018, 06:24:49 PM
 #11

I would not trust this site/bot. They claim that your roll comes from the most recent Bitcoin transaction, but the Bitcoin network receives many transactions per second, and the time for them to propagate to all nodes can be multiple seconds. Therefore every node receives transactions in a different order, and this site could simply pick a number that benefits them. As there is no way for you as a user to definitively see the number they came up with was non-biased, THIS GAME IS NOT PROVABLY FAIR.

So claiming that you know the truth and writing it in bold and very big , is a little snooty coming from somone who are promoting another dice in his banner. Any way this is not the subject.
-Our system don't pick the best favorable tx id for the site it will be clear that we are tricking the result when many player are betting , and this give as more work to do just to create a tricker.
-the bot just compare your roll with the last tx recived , belive or not it's realy your problem
- and you claim that other dice that generate number are more provably fair ( it's your opinion too)

You have not addressed my points, only claimed that you are not cheating. Saying you're not cheating is not the same as proving you're not cheating. If me or anybody else cannot definitively prove you are not cheating then you are not provably fair. This is not my opinion. The burden of proof is on you, the person claiming to be fair.

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March 23, 2018, 06:53:40 PM
 #12

not exactly sure if the concept is really provably fair or not , but in the first place why to use telegram instead of a site ??
everytime I see telegram involved with money I remember larawith me the famous ponzi site that used to telegram and then collapsed with millions of dollars

new ideas are good but don't like this one in specific

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March 23, 2018, 07:04:33 PM
 #13

I would not trust this site/bot. They claim that your roll comes from the most recent Bitcoin transaction, but the Bitcoin network receives many transactions per second, and the time for them to propagate to all nodes can be multiple seconds. Therefore every node receives transactions in a different order, and this site could simply pick a number that benefits them. As there is no way for you as a user to definitively see the number they came up with was non-biased, THIS GAME IS NOT PROVABLY FAIR.

So claiming that you know the truth and writing it in bold and very big , is a little snooty coming from somone who are promoting another dice in his banner. Any way this is not the subject.
-Our system don't pick the best favorable tx id for the site it will be clear that we are tricking the result when many player are betting , and this give as more work to do just to create a tricker.
-the bot just compare your roll with the last tx recived , belive or not it's realy your problem
- and you claim that other dice that generate number are more provably fair ( it's your opinion too)

You have not addressed my points, only claimed that you are not cheating. Saying you're not cheating is not the same as proving you're not cheating. If me or anybody else cannot definitively prove you are not cheating then you are not provably fair. This is not my opinion. The burden of proof is on you, the person claiming to be fair.

we added in the site the bet and the proof , if any one can prove that we are cheating so he is welcom with his proof , the other dice can cheat and change the seed at any time , our proof are public
if you have any suggestion you are welcom and we will try to update it for you Smiley
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March 23, 2018, 07:11:21 PM
 #14

not exactly sure if the concept is really provably fair or not , but in the first place why to use telegram instead of a site ??
everytime I see telegram involved with money I remember larawith me the famous ponzi site that used to telegram and then collapsed with millions of dollars

new ideas are good but don't like this one in specific

hi and thank you for your interest

- first of all making a dice in telegram was a challenge for as
- ready for mobile
- less fraud , do the limitation of account number
- and most important Telegram have 6 millions user

for the second part of your question , our site is the backup of our dice

thank you
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March 23, 2018, 07:17:11 PM
Merited by Kiritsugu (10), nullius (5), NLNico (2)
 #15

we added in the site the bet and the proof
You did not add in any proof. You added in bets and links to transactions, but still have not addressed my initial complaint: there is never any "most recent transaction" from every perspective on the Bitcoin network because transactions take time to propagate through the network. Therefore what is your most recent transaction is quite possibly not my most recent transaction, and therefore I have no way to know whether you are using your actual most recent transaction, or a transaction that was more favorable for you which could have been the second or third most recent transaction. The player has no way to tell this.

...if any one can prove that we are cheating so he is welcom with his proof...
It would be very difficult to prove that a site is not cheating. However, it is very easy to prove that you are not provably fair beacuse there is no way to prove that you are fair. It's right there in the name, it's that simple.

...the other dice can cheat and change the seed at any time , our proof are public...
This is not true at all. The other dice sites cannot cheat because they are ACTUALLY provably fair. If they changed the server seed they were using, the user would be able to tell because the hash of the server seed they were previously given before betting would not match the preimage they were provided after betting. Your claim that other dice sites that are provably fair can cheat is completely and totally bullshit. And again, you have no proof, because of the above reasons that I am now explaining for the second time.

if you have any suggestion you are welcom and we will try to update it for you Smiley
Switch to an actually provably fair system. Yours is not.

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March 23, 2018, 07:30:06 PM
 #16

we added in the site the bet and the proof
You did not add in any proof. You added in bets and links to transactions, but still have not addressed my initial complaint: there is never any "most recent transaction" from every perspective on the Bitcoin network because transactions take time to propagate through the network. Therefore what is your most recent transaction is quite possibly not my most recent transaction, and therefore I have no way to know whether you are using your actual most recent transaction, or a transaction that was more favorable for you which could have been the second or third most recent transaction. The player has no way to tell this.

...if any one can prove that we are cheating so he is welcom with his proof...
It would be very difficult to prove that a site is not cheating. However, it is very easy to prove that you are not provably fair beacuse there is no way to prove that you are fair. It's right there in the name, it's that simple.

...the other dice can cheat and change the seed at any time , our proof are public...
This is not true at all. The other dice sites cannot cheat because they are ACTUALLY provably fair. If they changed the server seed they were using, the user would be able to tell because the hash of the server seed they were previously given before betting would not match the preimage they were provided after betting. Your claim that other dice sites that are provably fair can cheat is completely and totally bullshit. And again, you have no proof, because of the above reasons that I am now explaining for the second time.

if you have any suggestion you are welcom and we will try to update it for you Smiley

Switch to an actually provably fair system. Yours is not.

so if you claim something is provably fair than it's provably fair (without discussion), and when i try to tel you our system is provably fair so there is no way with you
i tel you the system compare your bet with the last txid recived at the moment of the bet, it's simple ( propagation or not of the transaction id and the time to get it in our system )
we will se if we will switch to the standard provably fair system , in the same time i think you will come again and claim that it's not provably fair Cheesy

thank you any way
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March 23, 2018, 08:39:58 PM
Merited by suchmoon (2), DarkStar_ (2), RGBKey (2), BTCforJoe (1)
 #17

TELEGRAM DICE

[...]

Visit https://telegram-dice.com for faucet and live data.

[...]

   Provably fair
🤖
      The random number is simply created from last Bitcoin transaction , we extract the last 4 digits from last Bitcoin transaction hash
      Bets are instantly verifiable

The described system is premised on a severe misunderstanding of how Bitcoin works, coupled with incorrect claims about provably fair systems.  It reeks of pure snakeoil.

Foremost, learn the first rule of applied cryptography:  Almost anybody can design a system which he himself cannot break.  That appears to be what you’ve done here—assuming good faith on your part:  You made a system which you don’t know how to break, then assumed that it could not be broken by people who have far more knowledge than you do.

As RGBKey correctly states, there is no such thing as a “last Bitcoin transaction”.  The whole purpose of the Bitcoin mining system is to create a Byzantine fault-tolerant ordering where no order otherwise exists.  If you are drawing off the last transaction which your node’s mempool happened to see (or you claim to), then you can easily cheat.  Furthermore, an attacker could easily influence your mempool.  You are just waiting for some smart person to clean out your funds!

Forget about using transaction hashes:  Even a block ID is not secure for this purpose, since it can be influenced by miners.  (I should add:  The hashes of confirmed transactions within a block are also easily influenced by miners, since a miner is the one who chooses which transactions to include in the block.)

The hash the last block's ID approach can be biased by miners.  Without knowing what the the result would be used for you can't argue that they wouldn't do it... if they could make themselves win a 100 BTC lottery for sure, ... it would be totally reasonable to orphan and throw out blocks to pull it off.    The earlier proposal to use "the last 64 blocks" doesn't help, the last block is sufficient-- it already commits to all prior blocks anyways.

But that is not the only place where your design is insecure.

You say, “we extract the last 4 digits from last Bitcoin transaction hash” (boldface in the original).  But it would be trivial to create a transaction with fully customized, artificially chosen last 4 digits of its txid!  By tinkering with the nonce used for signature generation in a non-Segwit transaction, I can create any “last 4 digits” I want with an average of only 232 work.  Creating a valid Segwit transaction with predetermined last 4 digits to its txid would be a bit trickier; but off-the-cuff, I can think of a way to do it.  Either way, you have created a system which allows anybody to spend some CPU power and fully determine the outcome of a bet.

So, your system has multiple severe security flaws.

Moreover, you destroy your own credibility is when you throw FUD on sites which are actually provably fair.

the other dice can cheat and change the seed at any time

Wrong.  A site which uses a properly designed commit-and-reveal system cannot cheat, and is guaranteed by the laws of mathematics to be not cheating.  If a site claims to be provably fair when it isn’t (as you are doing), then that is simply fraudulent false advertising.

I respect your opinion

It is not a matter of “opinion” in any arbitrary sense.  Either a site is in fact provably fair, or it is in fact not.  This is a question of mathematics and cryptography—notoriously objective subjects which have no respect for “opinions” in the colloquial sense of that word.

So claiming that you know the truth and writing it in bold and very big , is a little snooty coming from somone who are promoting another dice in his banner.

I have no affiliation with any existing dice site, although my PGP keys are paying an awful lot for my signature space.  I know that RGBKey is correct in what he says, because I have a technical understanding of how Bitcoin works and also, of how provably fair systems work.

What RGBKey has explained to you is very basic Bitcoin knowledge, plus a dash of Applied Cryptography 101.  It is a matter of factual correctness, not of opinions; and your ad hominem argumentation does not change the facts.



To OP, you should not foist such an insecure site on the public with incorrect claims that it is “provably fair”.  It provably isn’t.  If you want to design your own dice system, then you need to either engage in long study of the secure design and implementation of cryptographic protocols, or hire a competent expert to help you.

To others reading this thread:  Avoid this site.

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March 23, 2018, 10:21:00 PM
 #18

......

Thank you , at last for this constructive comment.
We allready know about the risk of using a public data as metod to verify a bet
We allready have a version using standar provably fair used in other dice , we just tryed to be a little different
We are experimenting , and trying a different way
But i think in the end we will just conform to what allready exist .
And sorry if using provably fair term offense most of you , i will use txid fair term until we edit the system

Thank you
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March 24, 2018, 07:52:31 AM
 #19

And sorry if using provably fair term offense most of you , i will use txid fair term until we edit the system

Correct terms would be "hopefully fair" and "result calculation by TX ID" (with no correlation between the two) Tongue

Overall, it's just that the bitcoin community loves the "Don't trust, verify" mentality with bitcoin itself, but also with gambling sites. RGBKey was merely trying to say that your solution isn't provably fair (at all) especially after you said "it's the best provably fair option" lol. Obviously if it's not provably fair, you can't promote it as such either.

Anyway, I don't think you had/have any bad intentions or that you are trying to cheat anyone. It is just that it is really not provably fair (and TBH you were a bit ignorant about it in this thread - RGBKey made some of the first verifiers back in JD times lol, he isn't some random shill.) But sounds good that you will improve the system Smiley I think a nonce-method where you give a hash before the first bet and ask the player to give their client seed would be perfect with this Telegam setup.

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March 24, 2018, 09:45:14 AM
 #20

I just tried you game and it seems there is so many miswrite thing on your site, like satoshi you make it saoshi and many others too. And about the game, I do not understand how can we win and lose because it seems like it is pretty easy to win here. I know for a longer game eventually everyone will lose it but how can we really predict or see which number is rolled and how to verify the bet as well?

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