TradeHill - Why we no longer accept Dwolla and an open letter to Ben Milne

[Chick]

This thread illustrates the problem with the Bitcoin community.

You are all a bunch of arrogant, naive, utopian amateurs who automatically dismiss any good advice from people with experience.  That's why Bitcoin businesses are bound to fail.

To make it in the Real World of entrepreneurship, you must resort to deception, blackmail, and nepotism.  Only in the fantasy world of immature idealists does honesty, customer loyalty, and creating real value get you anywhere.

That was all the Venture Capitalist was trying to say to you, and your knee-jerk reaction was to gang up on him. How predictable.  

I agree 100%.

[1714932952]

1714932952

[Chick]

Yeah if they have a loyal fan base then they already have customers... So fuck your VC money?

It's not his VC money, it's potential VC money coming from potential investors. I'm pretty sure TradeHill could use some extra bucks and strategic management to have some serious competition with Mt.Gox.

With the attitude Jared is expressing now, he will still be left with nothing but you trolls. Sad.

[Chick]

As many of you have, I've dealt with both Dwolla and Trade Hill.  I've had the reason to contact customer service at each business.

Both were resolved to my satisfaction, BUT:

Trade Hill responded to me and resolved my issue in about an hour.

I heard no word from Dwolla for 2 days, but then it was resolved.

Combine this with Trade Hill's excellent record of communication on these forums, and Dwolla's continued absence, even though it's obvious bitcoin is directly responsible for Dwolla's much touted growth, and I'll take Trade Hill's side ANY DAY.

Because Dwolla is much bigger than TradeHill and have focuses other than Bitcoin itself?

[rate5]

It looks like MtGox has frozen Dwolla deposits:
https://support.mtgox.com/entries/20317576-important-notice-dwolla-deposit-delays

[Oldminer]

It looks like MtGox has frozen Dwolla deposits:
https://support.mtgox.com/entries/20317576-important-notice-dwolla-deposit-delays

Timely...

[hugolp]

Because Dwolla is much bigger than TradeHill and have focuses other than Bitcoin itself?

Actually no. Between MtGox and TradeHill they are the 90+% of the Dwolla bussiness. And in the rest there are other Bitcoin exchanges. Dwolla does not like to talk about it, but Dwolla is tied to Bitcoin. Without Bitcoin Dwolla would be nothing.

[da2ce7]

Because Dwolla is much bigger than TradeHill and have focuses other than Bitcoin itself?

Yay for adblock and to get rid of your stupid goxed banner!

[becoin]

This thread illustrates the problem with the Bitcoin community.

The bitcoin community has no problem. Dwolla's VC have because this is the end for Dwolla. All those 'keep silent' appeals are just pathetic...

[wumpus]

This thread illustrates the problem with the Bitcoin community.

The bitcoin community has no problem. Dwolla's VC have because this is the end for Dwolla. All those 'keep silent' appeals are just pathetic...

But still it is part of the bitcoin community so why not be a bit sympathetic with it? Why all the hostility against people that are sticking their head out and trying to do business using bitcoins, such as MtGox, Tradehill (and indirectly Dwolla) etc?

[JoelKatz]

But still it is part of the bitcoin community so why not be a bit sympathetic with it? Why all the hostility against people that are sticking their head out and trying to do business using bitcoins, such as MtGox, Tradehill (and indirectly Dwolla) etc?

I personally am very sympathetic to Dwolla. I think they handled this particular situation awfully, unless there are some massive extenuating circumstances we don't know about (such as a sting operation in progress involving one of their employees or something). But I think Dwolla is a great idea, deserves to succeed, and will succeed once they make it clear that they must pass on their fraud costs to their customers if they're only making $0.25 on each transaction.

But I do understand the hostility. A huge fraction of Dwolla's income is indirectly from Bitcoins. Yet there's a somewhat justified impression that Dwolla is not just indifferent to Bitcoins but hostile to them.

Dwolla will survive without Bitcoin, they'll just grow more slowly. And Bitcoin will survive without Dwolla, there will just be a bit of awkward time while exchanges switch over to other mechanisms. But they really should embrace each other. This is like the part of the chick flick where the girl thinks the guy's a jerk.

[Smalleyster]

It looks like MtGox has frozen Dwolla deposits:
https://support.mtgox.com/entries/20317576-important-notice-dwolla-deposit-delays

~"Turn out the lights..the party's over"~

[becoin]

Dwolla will survive without Bitcoin, they'll just grow more slowly.

Sure they can survive without bitcoin, but they can't survive without their "no chargeback" policy because this is the core of their business model.

[datguywhowanders]

2 BTC says BitcoinEXpress is really just some big-talking nobody living in his mom's basement.

Troll, GTFO. If you're going to express that childish attitude here, then you are the nobody living in your mom's basement. The fact that he is providing insightful information that most of you cannot take seriously of really makes me sick of the Bitcoin community.

Chick, I don't think your post is quality material either.


Tradehill,

I think you've handled this marvelously so far. You contacted Dwolla prior to a public disclosure, and the fact that you gave them two weeks over $37,000 is more than sufficient in my book. They refused to address the issue competently. Like you said, it could have been a failure to get the attention of the right people, but at this point and in light of recent actions by Dwolla, I think it is safe to assume that they are in the wrong on this. Please continue to keep the community informed in the manner you have started. It's obvious from the majority of the posts in this thread that your actions are supported and that your customer base appreciates full disclosure.

Dwolla,

Your failure to fully address this issue is losing you customers. At this point, I personally believe that you're hiding and will not make a statement, and if you are as badly off as some people, myself included, think you are right now, then there is no statement you can make to fix this. However, deleting comments from public spaces, sending out empty email responses that don't address the issue, and changing your terms of service without notifying any of your customers will not leave a good impression with anyone you are currently doing business with or those who may bring you business in the future. I will be cancelling my account with your service, but I wish you the best in improving your business.

All VCs and Dwolla supporters,

Your advice and expertise are appreciated. However, the BitCoin community is not your average customer. We don't want to do business in the same manner as the current model. If we did, we probably wouldn't be excited about BitCoin. We want an open discussion between all parties involved, and we're tired of the lying, cheating, and stealing that is the current system. We don't want another company funded by Wall Street or Silicon Valley that offers outsourced customer service and hidden fees around every corner. That change won't come overnight, and most of us know that. We still don't want you in here preaching silence and backdoor deals. So next time, instead of offering unsolicited advice to either protect a current investment or a future one, just leave.

[bitbot]

this officially makes mtgox the top exchange

[tvbcof]

Nicely put Panda, but I'll abbreviate and add an option...

All VCs and Dwolla supporters,

Your advice and expertise are appreciated. However, the BitCoin community is not your average customer. We don't want to do business in the same manner as the current model. If we did, we probably wouldn't be excited about BitCoin. We want an open discussion between all parties involved, and we're tired of the lying, cheating, and stealing that is the current system. We don't want another company funded by Wall Street or Silicon Valley that offers outsourced customer service and hidden fees around every corner. That change won't come overnight, and most of us know that.

We still don't want you in here preaching silence and backdoor deals. So next time, instead of offering unsolicited advice to either protect a current investment or a future one, just leave.

Or alternately, please stick around and keep reminding us why it could be a better world if the Bitcoin project evolves in a particular way and to keep an eye out for the armies of slimy degenerates who will be trying to creep in.

[Yeti]

this officially makes mtgox the top exchange

Which also has problems with Dwolla...

[Viceroy]

http://www.siliconprairienews.com/2011/07/as-bitcoin-exchanges-drop-dwolla-milne-says-company-stays-focused

[Bitcoin Swami]

http://www.siliconprairienews.com/2011/07/as-bitcoin-exchanges-drop-dwolla-milne-says-company-stays-focused

What a douchebag

[tvbcof]

this officially makes mtgox the top exchange

Which also has problems with Dwolla...

Cool!  Keep the users calm while Dwolla loads the lifeboats with their money.  In trade, Dwolla can kick back enough to keep you solvent.  Mutually promise not to sue one another.  Keep it silent and noone will be the wiser.  Everyone wins.  Modern business 101.

Just kidding...I of course don't know that Mt. Gox is doing that and I highly doubt it.  I'm sure our VC brain trust here would highly approve of the strategy though.

[bitbot]

so will people be able to withdraw funds via dwolla?