TradeHill - Why we no longer accept Dwolla and an open letter to Ben Milne

[LightRider]

"And I think that the unfortunate side is that you know there's an air of uncertainty about Bitcoins as a whole, and I don't think this is probably any exception to that rule," Milne said.

http://www.siliconprairienews.com/2011/07/as-bitcoin-exchanges-drop-dwolla-milne-says-company-stays-focused

Seems like Milne is trying to spread some FUD about bitcoin as opposed to face the issue at hand. Sad really.

[fcmatt]

As a TH user I appreciate them making this public and will continue to use their services.

As a Dwolla user I fully expect them to make things right with TH or I will stop using their services because the
only reason I use them is related to bitcoin/TH.

If in the end, the exchanges stop using Dwolla, I am completely done with them as a customer and will no
longer recommend them to my friends. Hopefully they have an easy way for me to delete my account via a few clicks of
the mouse.

[the founder]

What is it with VC and bitcoins? 

Probably some of them became aware of Bitcoin as an alternate to their Cayman Islands accounts.

Seriously we got approached no less than 1/2 a dozen times even though Flexcoin is still invite only.   

Did any of them seem to not take it as a matter of principle that two businesses should silently collude to screw their mutual customers?

Hopefully Bitcoin will not devolve toward a business-as-usual cesspool of corruption.  I'm not holding my breath, but I do have some hope because there it seems to me that us peons have a much greater potential to vote with our feet using this monetary system.

Correct and Correct...   flexcoin is backed by Yooter Interactive...  VC funding wasn't required at this time..  (or any time in the near future)  hence I wasn't at all impressed with the pitch...  which was literally "we'll give you a few million to build the company we'll virtually own,  in turn you'll get 8 bosses and we can fire the inventors and owners at any time"  

not exactly what I was expecting considering it wasn't solicitated.  

[Smalleyster]

Tradehill does have a history of sloppiness:

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=31094.0;all

Perhaps the people name calling me a troll should take another look at Tradehill and ask the necessary questions about their operations.  Missing $37,000 in first two months is hard to pull off without spectacular sloppiness.

The term "Sad Sack" comes to mind. Sheesh!

[Vod]

If in the end, the exchanges stop using Dwolla, I am completely done with them as a customer and will no
longer recommend them to my friends. Hopefully they have an easy way for me to delete my account via a few clicks of
the mouse.

IMHO you should have stopped recommending them the instant they unilaterally changed their terms without notice.  That's illegal.

[geek-trader]

As many of you have, I've dealt with both Dwolla and Trade Hill.  I've had the reason to contact customer service at each business.

Both were resolved to my satisfaction, BUT:

Trade Hill responded to me and resolved my issue in about an hour.

I heard no word from Dwolla for 2 days, but then it was resolved.

Combine this with Trade Hill's excellent record of communication on these forums, and Dwolla's continued absence, even though it's obvious bitcoin is directly responsible for Dwolla's much touted growth, and I'll take Trade Hill's side ANY DAY.

[Smalleyster]

"we'll give you a few million to build the company we'll virtually own,  in turn you'll get 8 bosses and we can fire the inventors and owners at any time"  

That is exactly what happened to friend of mine. He was stunned and on the verge of tears when they threw him out. And the $ he ended up with wasn't that much.

[fcmatt]

If in the end, the exchanges stop using Dwolla, I am completely done with them as a customer and will no
longer recommend them to my friends. Hopefully they have an easy way for me to delete my account via a few clicks of
the mouse.

IMHO you should have stopped recommending them the instant they unilaterally changed their terms without notice.  That's illegal.

This thread, after reading it, is the first time I realized they actually did change their terms of service. And as a regular
user I am not sure if the terms were even modified for me versus a merchant/developer. So how does one even know to
stop recommending Dwolla when the very nature of a unilaterally modified terms of service means the other party does
not even know it was modified due to never accepting it?

[alkor]

How can I close my account with Dwolla? They have no option to close your account.

[sequence]

How can I close my account with Dwolla? They have no option to close your account.

I second that!

[Yeti]

Not just Dwolla's VC are watching this thread, so are the ones that Jered potentially can get support from. Jered will have little chance of securing any seed or Series A money if he continues to turn this into childish back and forth. While I  am only a "Jr. Member" here I have been involved with Bitcoin since 2009.

As an account executive and analyst in VC world of Silicon Valley it is my job to find  potential new investments and more so in vetting them out.

Oh, so it's better to secure a couple of bucks in seed money and alienate your customers than to build a loyal and happy customer base that will support the business? Rrrrriight... that's why our company did not go for VC money and grows from its own strength. It's slower, true, but as has been said, you don't have several bosses that rather want Powerpoint slides of what went wrong and explaining how this affects their risks than to actually deal with the problem.

Maybe TradeHill is even better off without the VC money if they really should recommend screwing your customer base for profit / to mitigate loss. That's not the right way to do business! Apart from all the New Economy bubble crap, real customers paying you real money is what makes a business model succeed, ultimately. Should you have to decide between pleasing investors and pleasing customers, I'd advise to go with the latter. It's just more sustainable.

[Meatpile]

Yeah if they have a loyal fan base then they already have customers... So fuck your VC money?

[westkybitcoins]

BitcoinExpress why don't you be transparent and really tell people who you are and what your involvement is - are you just a shill for dwolla or do you have some kind of financial motive here ?  the facts are un-deniable  Dwolla f'up'd and is making it worst by doing nothing about it ?

This will be the last post I make in this thread. Who am I? A simple forum member but I will make this prediction. In the next day or so Jered will make an anoucement, post or whatever stating that the problem was resolved amicably by both sides and it was all just a big misunderstanding. Then the real arbitration will start to occur in private.

I have it on good authority that the chains have been jerked sufficiently.

Best of luck Jered, I'm glad you took the advice.

Wow.

And people wonder why Wall Street, and in large part due to them, the global economy,  is in the shape that it's in.

This is why the world needs bitcoin in the first place.

[Chris Acheson]

2 BTC says BitcoinEXpress is really just some big-talking nobody living in his mom's basement.

[wolftaur]

2 BTC says BitcoinEXpress is really just some big-talking nobody living in his mom's basement.

Nah, I'm sure he's making semi-big bucks as a customer service rep for Dwolla. Hey, if he almost manages to use a forum, like putting his reply in the quote body, he might even be a manager.

[tvbcof]

2 BTC says BitcoinEXpress is really just some big-talking nobody living in his mom's basement.

Nah, I'm sure he's making semi-big bucks as a customer service rep for Dwolla. Hey, if he almost manages to use a forum, like putting his reply in the quote body, he might even be a manager.

My guess is that BitcoingEXpress/OrangeSun is an escapee from the Republic of Sockistan.  Happily forum.bitcoing.org has the good sense to offer refugee status for general amusement.  It must be dawning on him by now that this isn't the typical day-trader/silver-bug forum.  Maybe not though...he does not seem all that quick on the uptake.

Another hypothesis is that he is actually trying to bring Dwolla down and elevate Tradehill.  Seems like every time he shows up he gets his balls pounded flat and Dwolla gets another shiner.

[wolftaur]

Nah, I'm sure he's making semi-big bucks as a customer service rep for Dwolla. Hey, if he almost manages to use a forum, like putting his reply in the quote body, he might even be a manager.

My guess is that BitcoingEXpress/OrangeSun is an escapee from the Republic of Sockistan.  Happily forum.bitcoing.org has the good sense to offer refugee status for general amusement.  It must be dawning on him by now that this isn't the typical day-trader/silver-bug forum.  Maybe not though...he does not seem all that quick on the uptake.

Another hypothesis is that he is actually trying to bring Dwolla down and elevate Tradehill.  Seems like every time he shows up he gets his balls pounded flat and Dwolla gets another shiner.

Funny you should say that. I was relating some of the content of his posts to a friend of mine on AIM, and got as a response, "Hm. Dwolla has no cancel feature."

[chickenado]

This thread illustrates the problem with the Bitcoin community.

You are all a bunch of arrogant, naive, utopian amateurs who automatically dismiss any good advice from people with experience.  That's why Bitcoin businesses are bound to fail.

To make it in the Real World of entrepreneurship, you must resort to deception, blackmail, and nepotism.  Only in the fantasy world of immature idealists does honesty, customer loyalty, and creating real value get you anywhere.

That was all the Venture Capitalist was trying to say to you, and your knee-jerk reaction was to gang up on him. How predictable.  

[wumpus]

To make it in the Real World of entrepreneurship, you must resort to deception, blackmail, and nepotism.  Only in the fantasy world of immature idealists does honesty, customer loyalty, and creating real value get you anywhere.

To be fair, "honesty, consumer loyalty and creating real value" can get you a long way. It's better to only start screwing your customers (and each other) after your initial growth otherwise you're up for an early crash.

[Chick]

2 BTC says BitcoinEXpress is really just some big-talking nobody living in his mom's basement.

Troll, GTFO. If you're going to express that childish attitude here, then you are the nobody living in your mom's basement. The fact that he is providing insightful information that most of you cannot take seriously of really makes me sick of the Bitcoin community.