(PETITION) The act of BUYING/SELLING Bitcointalk.org Accounts (Poll)

[nate008]

Try to ban this and price for "good" accounts will just rise , and more people will try creating good accounts , lots of spam....useless enforcing on a community that tries to get out of it

[1714938582]

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[slikes]

I voted yes. Just because accounts can be sold covertly, doesn't mean that nobody will get caught. It's best to make an example of the minority who overtly trade accounts in order to dissuade others from doing the same. So long as people are aware that accounts are being sold, regardless of the rules, they won't put too much stake in someone's reputation.
In fact, if there's a section in the rules that says it's against the rules to trade accounts, the more logical conclusion is that people have been doing it. If nobody was trading accounts, then there wouldn't be a need for a rule.

[Walter Rothbard]

The act of buying and selling domain names should also be disallowed.  It makes it harder for me to trust people.

Stuff that makes it hard for me to trust people should be disallowed.  We should have a trustworthy society.

[maursader]

I hate to be the one to say this, but vBulletin has a way of detecting multiple accounts, and where they link to.. surprised SMF doesn't have this, or something like this hasn't been coded yet for SMF, especially for a site this size. You know?

[BadBear]

I hate to be the one to say this, but vBulletin has a way of detecting multiple accounts, and where they link to.. surprised SMF doesn't have this, or something like this hasn't been coded yet for SMF, especially for a site this size. You know?

Admins don't care about multiple accounts.

[z3r0]

I hate to be the one to say this, but vBulletin has a way of detecting multiple accounts, and where they link to.. surprised SMF doesn't have this, or something like this hasn't been coded yet for SMF, especially for a site this size. You know?

Admins don't care about multiple accounts.

Good.

[whiskers75]

Add the ability to mark an account as sold
That way, people willingly selling their accounts can make it clear

[Walter Rothbard]

Add the ability to mark an account as sold
That way, people willingly selling their accounts can make it clear

What if you need to know that an account has been sold a second time?

What if people lie?

[maursader]

I hate to be the one to say this, but vBulletin has a way of detecting multiple accounts, and where they link to.. surprised SMF doesn't have this, or something like this hasn't been coded yet for SMF, especially for a site this size. You know?

Admins don't care about multiple accounts.

I hate to be the one to say this, but it seems like it all starts from here. Which is more or less the root cause of the whole idea behind selling accounts right?

[jackjack]

Forbidden = newbies tend to trust older accounts whereas they can still be sold
Allowed = newbies trust nobody
The latter is far less dangerous and user-friendly

That won't change, get over it

[maursader]

Forbidden = newbies tend to trust older accounts whereas they can still be sold
Allowed = newbies trust nobody
The latter is far less dangerous and user-friendly

That won't change, get over it

I agree with this in the sense that anyone who is trying to purchase anything must have some sort of common sense, and take every precaution prior to trading etc. Mind you, that's only one part of the effects of account selling. Then comes the other part where the forums get cluttered with inactive accounts, spammers, etc.

On another note though, it seems like over half the poll results are against the sale of accounts on the site. Perhaps the higher ups could take a closer look into it? It's not impossible to detect. If vBulletin can, smf has already done so. Just pointing an observation.

[jackjack]

Forbidden = newbies tend to trust older accounts whereas they can still be sold
Allowed = newbies trust nobody
The latter is far less dangerous and user-friendly

That won't change, get over it

I agree with this in the sense that anyone who is trying to purchase anything must have some sort of common sense, and take every precaution prior to trading etc. Mind you, that's only one part of the effects of account selling. Then comes the other part where the forums get cluttered with inactive accounts, spammers, etc.

On another note though, it seems like over half the poll results are against the sale of accounts on the site. Perhaps the higher ups could take a closer look into it? It's not impossible to detect. If vBulletin can, smf has already done so. Just pointing an observation.

How does the forums getting cluttered with inactive accounts affect you?

And how does allowing selling accounts increase the amount of spam? If people buying accounts with high post count value this that much they would spam using their own accounts anyway.
Also, currently ALL the spammers I see have a paid signature. Did you compare the incomes of a paid signature and of selling an account?

[watts]

This poll is not worded fairly. Very few people actually think buying and selling accounts is okay - the only reason 25% of people have voted in favor of buying and selling accounts is because they've gotten past the way you worded it.

Account selling at bitcointalk needs to stop. However, there's absolutely nothing that can be done about it. So, feel free to vote in favor of stopping account selling - just understand that if the option you're voting for wins, nothing will be changed because banning account selling will not stop anything.

If I don't want to pay higher taxes for a better education system, it doesn't mean "I'm for stupid, uneducated children." If I think abortion should be the choice of the person who is pregnant, it doesn't mean "I'm against life." If I don't think corporations should have to obey stricter environmental laws, it doesn't mean "I'm against the environment."

It's so much easier to say "I'm for the environment" or "I'm for educating our children" than it is to say the opposite, because practically nobody is against these things. However, just because something is considered "good," doesn't mean that the proposed process to benefit this cause is necessarily a good idea.

Here is how the poll should be written (of course, there still is a slight bias, as the order of the options will affect the voting):

Title: Should There Be a Rule Against Buying and Selling Accounts?

• Buying and selling of accounts should be prohibited.
• Buying and selling accounts should not be prohibited.

People who are indifferent shouldn't vote. If you want to have an indifferent option, its total should be added to whatever choice is against the change - in this case, that would be "The selling of accounts should not be prohibited."

Then, in the post, rather than just explaining your point of view, you should give both points of view in an unbiased fashion.  

That's what an actual poll would be. Of course, this isn't an actual poll - it's really just a petition (a petition to change nothing...). However, you've made it seem like a poll, even though it's not even close to being a fair poll.

[medUSA]

The part I am worried about is the trust system....

If someone have access to 20 accounts, he could make a normal "hero member" super trusted
and scam with it, like offering escrow or buying/selling bitcoins
or simply sell trust ratings to potential scammers

I understand it will be impossible to prevent selling of accounts privately
we should at least ban posts that openly offer to buy accounts

[theymos]

If someone have access to 20 accounts, he could make a normal "hero member" super trusted
and scam with it, like offering escrow or buying/selling bitcoins
or simply sell trust ratings to potential scammers

You don't understand how the Trust system works.

[hilariousandco]

I don't agree that accounts should be openly allowed to be sold, nor do I agree with the logic that we can't stop it so just let it be. You can't stop it, but you can police it and make it more difficult. I made my points in this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=367586.0

An account is a commodity like any other. Why should it be treated differently?

Should we treat your identity/passport/social security number as a commodity to be bought and sold to the highest bidder too?

IMO, account selling is somewhat analogous to selling a business.

Not if you're selling it to the mafia as a front to commit crimes and fraud.

Obviously there's two sides to this argument, but allowing it seems like you're not only condoning it but encouraging it.

My 0.02BTC.

[maursader]

This poll is not worded fairly. Very few people actually think buying and selling accounts is okay - the only reason 25% of people have voted in favor of buying and selling accounts is because they've gotten past the way you worded it.

Account selling at bitcointalk needs to stop. However, there's absolutely nothing that can be done about it. So, feel free to vote in favor of stopping account selling - just understand that if the option you're voting for wins, nothing will be changed because banning account selling will not stop anything.

If I don't want to pay higher taxes for a better education system, it doesn't mean "I'm for stupid, uneducated children." If I think abortion should be the choice of the person who is pregnant, it doesn't mean "I'm against life." If I don't think corporations should have to obey stricter environmental laws, it doesn't mean "I'm against the environment."

It's so much easier to say "I'm for the environment" or "I'm for educating our children" than it is to say the opposite, because practically nobody is against these things. However, just because something is considered "good," doesn't mean that the proposed process to benefit this cause is necessarily a good idea.

Here is how the poll should be written (of course, there still is a slight bias, as the order of the options will affect the voting):

Title: Should There Be a Rule Against Buying and Selling Accounts?

• Buying and selling of accounts should be prohibited.
• Buying and selling accounts should not be prohibited.

People who are indifferent shouldn't vote. If you want to have an indifferent option, its total should be added to whatever choice is against the change - in this case, that would be "The selling of accounts should not be prohibited."

Then, in the post, rather than just explaining your point of view, you should give both points of view in an unbiased fashion.  

That's what an actual poll would be. Of course, this isn't an actual poll - it's really just a petition (a petition to change nothing...). However, you've made it seem like a poll, even though it's not even close to being a fair poll.

I see your point, and I can edit the poll questions to suit it, except for the votes for the indifferent ones. If I do that, we lose 18 votes (at the time I write this).

I'm afraid of any sort of backlash this may make. Alternatively, I could zero the votes out essentially restarting the poll, however we would lose 88 votes (at the time of writing this).

Thoughts?

Edit: I'm taking feedback via comments to get a general feel to see what's the best course of action while upsetting the least amount of people here. All feedback is appreciated.

[jackjack]

I could zero the votes out essentially restarting the poll, however we would lose 88 votes (at the time of writing this).

I vote for this

[dewdeded]

Why not installing a good automaticDouble Account Detection, eg. one Flash-Cookie-based? It would detect 95% of these idiots, because they don't know about Flash Cookies.

[maursader]

Why not installing a good automaticDouble Account Detection, eg. one Flash-Cookie-based? It would detect 95% of these idiots, because they don't know about Flash Cookies.

Wouldn't be a hard thing to do.