SCAM ACCUSATION: TradeFortress + Inputs.io + theymos

[Injust]

Most scammers over the years will either pay back some amount, or claim that they are going to until everyone forgets.  Usually it's just a matter of waiting a month or so before some even bigger scam or other catastrophe eclipses it.  So, nothing very 'innovative' here.

I beg to differ. If TF actually refunds ~70% to everyone, and handles the loudy people one by one, he will soon be a hero again.
That's a very clever move in my opinion, much better than any previous scam.

Paymium/Bitcoin-Central did much better.  They seem to have refunded almost all Instawallet customers.  The (supposed) hack took place at a value peak, and they price was cut by half by the time they payed out so (if they were scamming) they could have choosen one option or the other depending on what the price did.

One way or another, they ended up with the unclaimed Instawallet funds which were significant.  Most of them they probably got from Jav (original Instawallet developer) for a bargin if they even paid him anything at all.

If the Instwallet thing was a scam, it was well played, and if it was not, they came out well financially anyway.  So 'nicely done' one way or another.

--

I thought most people sensed that Tradefortress was pretty shady.  For whatever reason I abruptly stopped reading about inputs.io when I saw him attached to it.

Thankfully I some time ago started to consider an affiliation with bitcointalk.org to be indicative of someone being a potential scammer.  Unfortunately I suspect that a lot of newbies will be mis-guided by such an affiliation which is, I suspect, "not a bug but rather a feature" as they say.

Methinks Instawallet is still profiting from the coins that were accidentally sent to the people's addresses. I received a few payments on my addresses, so I contacted any people I could find related to Instawallet. Over one month later, I get no response

[Zoznoz]

I was very lucky not to lose anything from inputs.io, all I can say is I'm happy that I was sceptical in the first place. I never liked the way others trusted him, never liked this whole ripple debacle and some could say it was more difficult to criticise him than others on this forum.
There are still many users out there, today and yesterday who keep advocating his profile and praise him for providing some users with a partial refund. TradeFortress fucked up very very bad even if he is telling the truth, he is still more than likely extremely negligent. The fact that he refuses to file a police report is in itself means that an inside job was probable (perhaps not certain). A NSW Police spokesman said there was no complaint made and suggested one should be filed and the case would be "treated like any other theft", yes the police are very limited regarding bitcoins but if TradeFortress was confident enough to do the right thing and file a police report then that would prove him to not be a scammer, just negligent.

TradeFortress I have some questions, which you probably won't answer:

1. Why don't you file a police report? Especially after the comments from NSW police. I understand that this is a grey area and you may not know where you stand in regards to the law, after all we're talking about a currency exchange here not a bakery. However, I can't accept that you have not sought advice from a lawyer and if you haven't then that is very very dumb, should have been an absolute priority. Something tells me that you have visited your lawyer and they have advised you that you will get into trouble (by exposing yourself to a possible investigation) if you file a police report. That's the only logical reason I can think of regarding you not filing a police report.

2. Are you even incorporated? Honestly if you are not incorporated and you are operating under your name, 100% everything in your name with all your assets and credit at huge risk then I would be shitting myself 100x more.

3. Finally, as everyone else had suggested why hold so much available btc online? This is finance 101, you could have easily used the internal data freely provided to you to determine how much should be provided online daily and if you can't or don't have time then you should have hired a financial controller.

In the short time that I have been involved with bitcoins and particularly this forum, I have noticed there are some big reasons why small and large bitcoin services fail, two of which I'd like to point out. Firstly, scamming of course and secondly, the owner always places too much work on himself and refuses to hire anyone cause they're 'scared'. I mean really just get your employees to sign an NDA loll.

[ellet]

you must have little btc in inputs.io, thats why no losses.

[Bitcoinpro]

really strange 4k mixing addresses everywhere and 4k stolen from inputs.io 

[ellet]

really strange 4k mixing addresses everywhere and 4k stolen from inputs.io 

What about btc @ coinlenders ? are they safe?

[Injust]

really strange 4k mixing addresses everywhere and 4k stolen from inputs.io 

What about btc @ coinlenders ? are they safe?

Do you even bother reading through the thread before posting these stupid questions?

[ellet]

really strange 4k mixing addresses everywhere and 4k stolen from inputs.io 

What about btc @ coinlenders ? are they safe?

Do you even bother reading through the thread before posting these stupid questions?

Yes, I read the threads.

[Injust]

really strange 4k mixing addresses everywhere and 4k stolen from inputs.io 

What about btc @ coinlenders ? are they safe?

Do you even bother reading through the thread before posting these stupid questions?

Yes, I read the threads.

Well, you didn't read all of em. TF said somewhere that because CL would be more complicated to handle than inputs.io, he would post an update about it next week.
Something along those lines.

[ellet]

really strange 4k mixing addresses everywhere and 4k stolen from inputs.io 

What about btc @ coinlenders ? are they safe?

Do you even bother reading through the thread before posting these stupid questions?

Yes, I read the threads.

Well, you didn't read all of em. TF said somewhere that because CL would be more complicated to handle than inputs.io, he would post an update about it next week.
Something along those lines.

Thank you so much, friend.

[darkmule]

Most scammers over the years will either pay back some amount, or claim that they are going to until everyone forgets.  Usually it's just a matter of waiting a month or so before some even bigger scam or other catastrophe eclipses it.  So, nothing very 'innovative' here.

I beg to differ. If TF actually refunds ~70% to everyone, and handles the loudy people one by one, he will soon be a hero again.
That's a very clever move in my opinion, much better than any previous scam.

If by "very clever move" you mean "very clever scam," I might agree. 

[tspacepilot]

Most scammers over the years will either pay back some amount, or claim that they are going to until everyone forgets.  Usually it's just a matter of waiting a month or so before some even bigger scam or other catastrophe eclipses it.  So, nothing very 'innovative' here.

I beg to differ. If TF actually refunds ~70% to everyone, and handles the loudy people one by one, he will soon be a hero again.
That's a very clever move in my opinion, much better than any previous scam.

If by "very clever move" you mean "very clever scam," I might agree. 

Seriously, if he gets away w 30% of the fundage and a clean rep to do it again in the future...

[Lauda]

Has anyone found more evidence?
How much has TF paid back?

[favdesu]

A ban is possible, but that's not fair.
We should be fee to make an accusation on anyone.

I'm willing to take that risk For Great Justice 

Remember, remember, the 8th of November...

[CrazyRabbi]

OP, has theymos contacted you yet/responded to this accusation?

Nope

[tvbcof]

OP, has theymos contacted you yet/responded to this accusation?

Nope

Not much activity on this request on the 'meta' board either:

  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=328820.0

[grue]

*MAJOR UPDATE* I fully expect to be banned for this but I feel wrong not disclosing this information.

nothing adds legitimacy like a declaration of being a martyr.

theymos on behalf of Bitcoin Talk openly promoted Inputs.io through banner ads and Donations

those ads were bought by tradefortress. also, donors/VIPs are entitled to one ad slot, see: https://bitcointalk.org/adrotate.php?adinfo

even after being warned by the community several times that Inputs.io was highly unsecure

I would agree that inputs.io was as insecure as any other web wallet, but I have not seen any posts warning theymos that it was "highly unsecure".

to top it off he also gave him Default Trust allowing TradeFortress to have a Green Positive Rating regardless of any negative ratings issued.

he was given green positive trust because he "Responsibly disclosed forum security flaws".

To top it off other Moderators and Staff are to blame as they have a direct link to Banner Ads and revenue affiliated with Bitcoin Talk but because they had no choice whether or not theymos chose to have affiliation with TradeFortress I am not listing them as outright Scammers.

guilt by association

Kluge on the other hand has yet to remove his Inputs.io signature and is still openly promoting TradeFortress and Inputs.io. A significant amount of other Donators and Shills are posting nothing but compliments for TradeFortress and refuse to stop promoting the site which leads me to believe they are taking a sigificant cut of this "hack" (The one TradeFortress staged)

It's funny how you start digging up everyone and everything pro-tradefortress and start blaming them, but you didn't raise any complaints before it occurred.

[r3wt]

the fact that grue is posting in here tells me all i need to know.

[CrazyRabbi]

the fact that grue is posting in here tells me all i need to know.

I fully agree with this.

A soon as grue starts posting you know Bitcoin Talk was in on it 

[CrazyRabbi]

*MAJOR UPDATE* I fully expect to be banned for this but I feel wrong not disclosing this information.

nothing adds legitimacy like a declaration of being a martyr.

theymos on behalf of Bitcoin Talk openly promoted Inputs.io through banner ads and Donations

those ads were bought by tradefortress. also, donors/VIPs are entitled to one ad slot, see: https://bitcointalk.org/adrotate.php?adinfo

even after being warned by the community several times that Inputs.io was highly unsecure

I would agree that inputs.io was as insecure as any other web wallet, but I have not seen any posts warning theymos that it was "highly unsecure".

to top it off he also gave him Default Trust allowing TradeFortress to have a Green Positive Rating regardless of any negative ratings issued.

he was given green positive trust because he "Responsibly disclosed forum security flaws".

To top it off other Moderators and Staff are to blame as they have a direct link to Banner Ads and revenue affiliated with Bitcoin Talk but because they had no choice whether or not theymos chose to have affiliation with TradeFortress I am not listing them as outright Scammers.

guilt by association

Kluge on the other hand has yet to remove his Inputs.io signature and is still openly promoting TradeFortress and Inputs.io. A significant amount of other Donators and Shills are posting nothing but compliments for TradeFortress and refuse to stop promoting the site which leads me to believe they are taking a sigificant cut of this "hack" (The one TradeFortress staged)

It's funny how you start digging up everyone and everything pro-tradefortress and start blaming them, but you didn't raise any complaints before it occurred.

1. I myself have warned several members of Bitcoin Talk as well as Staff of Bitcoin Talk about TradeFortress and Inputs.io
2. He didn't disclose a security flaw considering Bitcoin Talk is still not secure and alot of that has to do with not upgrading the forum software after being paid countless amounts of Bitcoins to do so by now
3. I'm not a maytr I just don't take too kindly to that fact theymos openly supports every scammer on Bitcoin Talk from pirateat40 to Zhou Tong
4. It doesn't matter if the ads were paid for by TradeFortress all he had to do was not accept them and actually have some dignity and respect for himself
5. I've warned how Kluge is a troll , a shill and absolutely no one should respect him for the things he has done and the scams he still hasn't paid back for
6. It's not guilt my association It's guilt by factual definition

[SaltySpitoon]

1. I myself have warned several members of Bitcoin Talk as well as Staff of Bitcoin Talk about TradeFortress and Inputs.io
2. He didn't disclose a security flaw considering Bitcoin Talk is still not secure and alot of that has to do with not upgrading the forum software after being paid countless amounts of Bitcoins to do so by now
3. I'm not a maytr I just don't take too kindly to that fact theymos openly supports every scammer on Bitcoin Talk from pirateat40 to Zhou Tong
4. It doesn't matter if the ads were paid for by TradeFortress all he had to do was not accept them and actually have some dignity and respect for himself
5. I've warned how Kluge is a troll , a shill and absolutely no one should respect him for the things he has done and the scams he still hasn't paid back for
6. It's not guilt my association It's guilt by factual definition

1) Congrats, I'd be willing to bet there has been a warning against every single Bitcoin business ever, including those with good reputations, so I'm shocked that Theymos didn't decide to banish Tradefortress based on your opinion which turned out correct.

2) Tradefortress did disclose forum security issues, which is how he got Theymos' trust. Just because there were additional issues doesn't mean that he didnt.

3) Theymos openly supports many many people, some of them turn out to be scammers, once he masters future telling, I'm sure he will let us know.

4) Again, why would Theymos refuse advertising to someone who would scam in the future

5) You and Kluge have settled everything, so no need to get into that.

6) By your definition of guilt by factual definition, you should also add the 75 pages of people who were paid to advertise inputs.io as well.

Assuming Tradefortress is a scammer, how is it you can blame people who had affiliation prior to the scam? If Tradefortress had scammed people, and people still continued to support him, I could see a point there, but how exactly was it that Theymos, and those that were advertising for Tradefortress could see the future and knew that they were helping a scammer? Are all of the inputs.io users scammers as well? What if they were happy with the service and recommended it to friends?

For the record, I didn't have an inputs.io wallet, so I've got very little interest other than the scam case itself invested in the situation, I'm just really failing to see your logic in throwing the blame around. To me it looks like either A) Tradefortress actually got hacked, and he is to blame as well as the hacker, or B) He didn't get hacked, stole the coins, and is solely to blame.