Paxum Questions and Concerns

[davout]

(e) Receipt by Paxum of excessive complaints regarding your account, business or service;

In plain english : "if for any reason we dislike you we get to make stuff up, close your account based on it, and keep your moniez"

(f) Use of an anonymizing proxy:

WTF... Anonymizing proxies are legal and legitimate.

(g) Refusal to cooperate in an investigation or provide confirmation of identity when requested;

"We will sometimes act like we're the cops and moneyrape you if you disrespect that authority"

Based on the listed reasons that you are referring to (above), it is unlikely that the account-holder would be able to withdraw their funds after account termination. Each case would be individually investigated and evaluated at the time to determine a decision.

By whom ? An independent party like... Paxum ?

This Account Agreement is governed by the laws of Canada and/or Belize as such laws are applied to agreements entered into and to be performed entirely within Canada and/or Belize by Canada and/or Belize residents.

I don't understand the phrase "Canada and/or Belize". If you are a canadian incorporated company, where does Belize come from?

Belize is the location of the card issuer for the Paxum Mastercards. Hence, some parts of the agreement are governed by those laws.
[/quote]
That's just laughable... Next time I'll write terms of service I'll put it under every funny jurisdiction possible and cherry pick the laws I like depending on the situation, each time I have to go to court I'll go simultaneously in Belize and Canada...

I'll just quote nanaimogold here, he might actually be right :

Their banking is in Belize. Only their support office is in Quebec.

and

The reason for putting a call centre in Quebec is due to the different laws regarding lying to people over the phone. Under English common law, this is criminal. Under the French civil tradition, it's not.

That's why almost all phone scams operate from Quebec. It's almost never the Québécois running these scams, US Americans and Nigerians are almost always to blame.

Beware area code 514

[phillipsjk]

6.1. Paxum reserves the right to terminate this agreement with the User for reasons below:
...
(f) Use of an anonymizing proxy:

I plan on using the Pirate Party VPN for all HTTP traffic (at the router). I am also considering using a Swedish VPN provider that accepts bitcoins for my laptop.

The VPN tunnels are in response to Internet Surveillance Legislation and my ISP disclosing that they may tamper with my Internet access (27e). For my laptop a VPN tunnel is justified because I can never be sure how much to trust open access points.

Edit: I also plan on setting up an IPv6 tunnel with Hurricane electric since my ISP does not yet support IPv6, and the first IPv4 addresses will run out (in the Asia-Pacific region) by the end of the year.

[CubedRoot]

If your considering Paxum as a replacement for your funding source, you need to be aware of the fees. I found them hard to find on their site, but it appears there is a $5 USD fee for transfers to and from your bank account via ACH.
There is also a $1.00 fee to transfer funds from Paxum to Paxum account.

So, what this means to us miners is this:
You sell your BTC on your exchange for USD. Then when you transfer your USD to Paxum from the exchange, you will incur a $1.00 charge.
Then, when you want to transfer your USD to your bank account, it will costs you $5.00!!!!

So, you will need to figure that it will now costs you $6.00 in fees when you sell your BTC and then get that money to your bank account.  With Dwolla, the total charges only equated to $.50

On top of these super high fees, you will be forced to provide photocopies of your personal information to Paxum in order to comply with their TOS.  You have to send in a photocopy of your ID (passport or drivers license) and then to prove your address, you need to send them a photocopy of a utility bill.  I DO NOT like doing this with any web base company! Hell, I dont even like giving this kind of personal information to my own brick and mortar bank!

If you plan on using Bitcoins as a secure and private currency, I highly recomment NOT using Paxum as a funding source to buy or sell Bitcoins.

[djex]

On top of these super high fees, you will be forced to provide photocopies of your personal information to Paxum in order to comply with their TOS.  You have to send in a photocopy of your ID (passport or drivers license) and then to prove your address, you need to send them a photocopy of a utility bill.  I DO NOT like doing this with any web base company! Hell, I dont even like giving this kind of personal information to my own brick and mortar bank!

Yeah I don't like this. Being a web based company and asking for such personal information doesn't make me feel comfortable at all.

Also why does it cost so much to deposit direct into a bank or maybe I'm missing something. So My question is this, If I wanted to transfer funds from my Paxum account to my Canadian bank account how much would that cost me since the Paxum Mastercard is only available to US customers.

[phillipsjk]

I was under the impression the card was open to all customers, but denominated in US funds.

The minimum total that you can obtain from ATM is US$10.00 (or the equivalent amount in local currency of the country at the time of the transaction).

[djex]

I was under the impression the card was open to all customers, but denominated in US funds.

The minimum total that you can obtain from ATM is US$10.00 (or the equivalent amount in local currency of the country at the time of the transaction).

Yeah now that I read it closer it says USD not US. *sigh*

So if I wanted to transfer funds from Paxum to my Canadian bank account how much will that cost?

[Clipse]

Just to correct one thing mentioned here.

Paxum transfer by personal account is 0.25 and paxum transfer by business acount is $1.

So if you as personal account holder send money to any other personal/business account it would cost you 0.25 thus if you deposit your funds thats allready in paxum to an exchange the deposit fee would be 0.25 and when you withdraw from an exchange it would be $1, all these fees are fixed fees.

[Sukrim]

Please post any questions you have regarding our service in this thread...

Why do you post this thread in "Bitcoin Discussion" if you don't even provide any services in Bitcoin?

[sequence]

Please post any questions you have regarding our service in this thread...

Why do you post this thread in "Bitcoin Discussion" if you don't even provide any services in Bitcoin?

Because  eventually paxum will actually provide a better service to bitcoin than dwolla ever could. If T T Tradehill was dwollas second biggest customer/merchant then its to Paxums benefit to keep the community up to date regarding their service. This issue has been thrown around in the forums for days now... read up!

[CubedRoot]

Just to correct one thing mentioned here.

Paxum transfer by personal account is 0.25 and paxum transfer by business acount is $1.

So if you as personal account holder send money to any other personal/business account it would cost you 0.25 thus if you deposit your funds thats allready in paxum to an exchange the deposit fee would be 0.25 and when you withdraw from an exchange it would be $1, all these fees are fixed fees.

Thats correct Clipse, I didnt realize there was a difference in personal and business fees.  But, still, it will cost miners $1 to withdraw from the exchange to Paxum.
You also need to be aware that to send or receive to Paxum from your bank account, that is a flat fee of $5 both ways.  So, it will still cost a total of $6 to transfer money from the exchange to Paxum and then to your bank.  That is significantly higher than the $.50 it would cost for this same transaction chain at Dwolla

[JoelKatz]

In plain english : "if for any reason we dislike you we get to make stuff up, close your account based on it, and keep your moniez"

Unfortunately, pretty much every company's terms of service can be summarized that way. We can do whatever we want, take your money, send you nothing, and you can't do anything about it. Your ultimate recourse is always, of course, to sue them.

[Clipse]

Just to correct one thing mentioned here.

Paxum transfer by personal account is 0.25 and paxum transfer by business acount is $1.

So if you as personal account holder send money to any other personal/business account it would cost you 0.25 thus if you deposit your funds thats allready in paxum to an exchange the deposit fee would be 0.25 and when you withdraw from an exchange it would be $1, all these fees are fixed fees.

Thats correct Clipse, I didnt realize there was a difference in personal and business fees.  But, still, it will cost miners $1 to withdraw from the exchange to Paxum.
You also need to be aware that to send or receive to Paxum from your bank account, that is a flat fee of $5 both ways.  So, it will still cost a total of $6 to transfer money from the exchange to Paxum and then to your bank.  That is significantly higher than the $.50 it would cost for this same transaction chain at Dwolla

Yeh, you are right that it cost more than the 0.50 with dwolla but from what I can see this is the only alternative we have now (afaik dwolla is still accepted by mtgox) and dwolla was allways US only so with Paxum atleast non-US citizens have a real alternative. Trust me trying to move Libertyreserve around is way more expensive for alot of non-US users so this Paxum method is relieving.

[RuthBPaxum]

If your considering Paxum as a replacement for your funding source, you need to be aware of the fees. I found them hard to find on their site, but it appears there is a $5 USD fee for transfers to and from your bank account via ACH.
There is also a $1.00 fee to transfer funds from Paxum to Paxum account.

So, what this means to us miners is this:
You sell your BTC on your exchange for USD. Then when you transfer your USD to Paxum from the exchange, you will incur a $1.00 charge.
Then, when you want to transfer your USD to your bank account, it will costs you $5.00!!!!

So, you will need to figure that it will now costs you $6.00 in fees when you sell your BTC and then get that money to your bank account.  With Dwolla, the total charges only equated to $.50

On top of these super high fees, you will be forced to provide photocopies of your personal information to Paxum in order to comply with their TOS.  You have to send in a photocopy of your ID (passport or drivers license) and then to prove your address, you need to send them a photocopy of a utility bill.  I DO NOT like doing this with any web base company! Hell, I dont even like giving this kind of personal information to my own brick and mortar bank!

If you plan on using Bitcoins as a secure and private currency, I highly recomment NOT using Paxum as a funding source to buy or sell Bitcoins.

I'm sorry you had difficulty locating our fees. The link is visible in our menu headers on our website - FEES

Link - https://www.paxum.com/payment/fees.php?view=views/fees.xsl

Personal accounts are charged $0.25 USD per P2P transaction
Business accounts are charged $1.00 USD per P2P transaction.

We have a strong Know Your Customer policy, and strong Anti-Money laundering protocols in place. This requires that we ask for certain documentation in order to verify your account. All documentation is kept offline on a secure server.

On top of these super high fees, you will be forced to provide photocopies of your personal information to Paxum in order to comply with their TOS.  You have to send in a photocopy of your ID (passport or drivers license) and then to prove your address, you need to send them a photocopy of a utility bill.  I DO NOT like doing this with any web base company! Hell, I dont even like giving this kind of personal information to my own brick and mortar bank!

Yeah I don't like this. Being a web based company and asking for such personal information doesn't make me feel comfortable at all.

Also why does it cost so much to deposit direct into a bank or maybe I'm missing something. So My question is this, If I wanted to transfer funds from my Paxum account to my Canadian bank account how much would that cost me since the Paxum Mastercard is only available to US customers.

To transfer funds to your Canadian bank account you would currently need to use our Wire option, or Check withdrawal option. International EFT is on our list of future implementations.

Please do note, the Paxum Mastercard is available INTERNATIONALLY - WORLDWIDE. You do NOT need to be a US customer in order to request the Paxum Mastercard. You do NOT need to have any funds in your account before requesting your Paxum Mastercard. All Fees are listed on our site (as linked above)

Please post any questions you have regarding our service in this thread...

Why do you post this thread in "Bitcoin Discussion" if you don't even provide any services in Bitcoin?

We were asked to do so in the Tradehill thread about adding Paxum. It was suggested we start a new thread to cover all questions people may have.

Just to correct one thing mentioned here.

Paxum transfer by personal account is 0.25 and paxum transfer by business acount is $1.

So if you as personal account holder send money to any other personal/business account it would cost you 0.25 thus if you deposit your funds thats allready in paxum to an exchange the deposit fee would be 0.25 and when you withdraw from an exchange it would be $1, all these fees are fixed fees.

Thats correct Clipse, I didnt realize there was a difference in personal and business fees.  But, still, it will cost miners $1 to withdraw from the exchange to Paxum.
You also need to be aware that to send or receive to Paxum from your bank account, that is a flat fee of $5 both ways.  So, it will still cost a total of $6 to transfer money from the exchange to Paxum and then to your bank.   That is significantly higher than the $.50 it would cost for this same transaction chain at Dwolla

Many of our clients have the Paxum Mastercard which enables them to transfer their funds instantly and withdraw them immediately at a local ATM, or through purchases made online or in a store (the Paxum Mastercard is a fully useable credit card embossed with name, expiration date, CVV, etc). ATM withdrawal is $2 USD per transaction. Daily limits are $2,500 USD and you can withdraw that as one lump sum if you prefer.

As stated, all fees are visible on our site. We do not have any hidden fees.

[djex]

To transfer funds to your Canadian bank account you would currently need to use our Wire option, or Check withdrawal option. International EFT is on our list of future implementations.

I signed up any ways just to see what the site UI looks like and how it works. I noticed that I'm able to add my Canadian bank account to the list of EFT bank accounts to withdraw or deposit to. I'm confused about this. If I add my bank and try to make a transfer will it just fail since you don't support International EFT?

When can we expect support for International EFT?

[coga]

(f) Use of an anonymizing proxy:

WTF... Anonymizing proxies are legal and legitimate.

This one totally irked me as well. Was considering paxum, but after this one - no go, and probably will not consider it even if they change this thing. Wtf? i already have paypal to phuck me up, I don't need a second one

[Rob Lister]

(f) Use of an anonymizing proxy:

WTF... Anonymizing proxies are legal and legitimate.

This one totally irked me as well. Was considering paxum, but after this one - no go, and probably will not consider it even if they change this thing. Wtf? i already have paypal to phuck me up, I don't need a second one

I think this rule regards your use of an AP in the course of communications with them, not your use of an AP in general.  It's part of the whole "know your customer" thing.  IOW, you can hide from others all you like, but you can't hide from your banker. 

[phillipsjk]

I think this rule regards your use of an AP in the course of communications with them, not your use of an AP in general.  It's part of the whole "know your customer" thing.  IOW, you can hide from others all you like, but you can't hide from your banker.  

It has nothing to do with "know your customer". When you log into the site you have to provide your credentials. I think it is more likely that they try to use IP addresses to detect fraud. With IPv4 addresses running out in the next 2 years, more and more users are going to be using shared IP addresses until they make the leap to IPv6. I don't see how they are going to distinguish between ISP-level NAT and an annonymising proxy.

If I set up my router to tunnel all HTTP traffic, I would have to take  specific steps to avoid using my "proxy." I suppose the easiest way of doing it would be to leave HTTPS traffic alone (since it is supposed to be encrypted and authenticated anyway). Paxum appears to use HTTPS by default.

[Fireball]

It's part of the whole "know your customer" thing.  IOW, you can hide from others all you like, but you can't hide from your banker. 

First of all, they are not a bank. Second, they already request quite a lot of personal documents, so tracking the IP won't help that much. And third, real banks don't care how you access their internet bank. They care about whether it's really you who's logging in to the internet bank. I can log in to the banks where I'm serviced from any place, using any kind of connection, and I never hit any limitation from their side. That's talking about some major european banks of course, I don't know about smaller banks though.

[RuthBPaxum]

In regard to ANONYMIZING PROXIES

We need to know who the person is that creates the account, who logs into the account,  who transfers the funds, etc, in order to prevent fraud and identity theft.

This is NOT a Major rule, and is simply in the TOS to protect against abuse of our system. Fraud prevention is one of our top priorities, and this is simply an additional security measure to prevent against fraudulent use of our system.

If at any time a Paxum account is terminated for the ANONYMIZING PROXIES Terms of Service clause, please do note that ALL FUNDS will be delivered to the Paxum client in question should the account be closed. (by check, or wire).

Paxum is NOT an anonymous payment service, and we do follow a strict KYC policy to protect against fraudulent use of our system.

I hope this addresses your concerns.

[dbitcoin]

In regard to ANONYMIZING PROXIES

We need to know who the person is that creates the account, who logs into the account,  who transfers the funds, etc, in order to prevent fraud and identity theft.

This is NOT a Major rule, and is simply in the TOS to protect against abuse of our system. Fraud prevention is one of our top priorities, and this is simply an additional security measure to prevent against fraudulent use of our system.

If at any time a Paxum account is terminated for the ANONYMIZING PROXIES Terms of Service clause, please do note that ALL FUNDS will be delivered to the Paxum client in question should the account be closed. (by check, or wire).

Paxum is NOT an anonymous payment service, and we do follow a strict KYC policy to protect against fraudulent use of our system.

I hope this addresses your concerns.

1) When you dismiss your cheap and unprofessional programmers/admins? 
2) When you replace your ugly and unprofessional site backend?

Your current system is a joke: near to zero usability and full of security holes.
Your software is unstable for almost a year, and still not progress here.
Please STOP hiring cheap php "programmers".