Black Arrow R9-12 threads, DZ Miners Co-op. Plz move ?s and discussion here.

[philipma1957]

As I have r5+r6   and r9-r10-r11-r12   I am very happy with dZcoop.  


 I deleted the rest of this

[thomas_s]

As I have r5+r6   and r9-r10-r11-r12   I am very happy with dZcoop.  


 If I may say I am USA based and I pay taxes.  SO btc roi means 0 to me .    When I pay my taxes in APRIL next year.   This purchase made roi. and a usd profit.


 To all that believe in BTC roi fine you can do this.  But in most countries btc is translated to the fiat of that country in order to determine gain.  

 I purchased 11 shares here at 123 usd each a total of 1353  if selling this gear off gets us 180 a share I get 180 x 11 = 1980 usd

my usa taxes would be 1980usd  plus the coins paid to me prior 1.09098806 cashed in on  nov 14 for 450 usd and 1.12229538 cashed in for 1122.29 a grand  total of :



 3552 income against  123 a share x 11 or 1353  this comes to a net of 2199 usd……  So I would be fine with cashing out my chips.  this gear has been harder to run so lets get rid of it.

   My vote is sell  it all.  r9-r10-r11-r12.      my vote for r5+ r6 remains sell 1 keep 1.

Unless the IRS starts to accept BTC, then you can pay in BTC

[philipma1957]

deleted

[thomas_s]

As I have r5+r6   and r9-r10-r11-r12   I am very happy with dZcoop.  


 If I may say I am USA based and I pay taxes.  SO btc roi means 0 to me .   When I pay my taxes in APRIL next year.   This purchase made roi. and a usd profit.


 To all that believe in BTC roi fine you can do this.  But in most countries btc is translated to the fiat of that country in order to determine gain.  

 I purchased 11 shares here at 123 usd each a total of 1353  if selling this gear off gets us 180 a share I get 180 x 11 = 1980 usd

my usa taxes would be 1980usd  plus the coins paid to me prior 1.09098806 cashed in on  nov 14 for 450 usd and 1.12229538 cashed in for 1122.29 a grand  total of :



 3552 income against  123 a share x 11 or 1353  this comes to a net of 2199 usd……  So I would be fine with cashing out my chips.  this gear has been harder to run so lets get rid of it.

   My vote is sell  it all.  r9-r10-r11-r12.      my vote for r5+ r6 remains sell 1 keep 1.

Unless the IRS starts to accept BTC, then you can pay in BTC

 that is a good one ROTFLMAO !!

Anyone care to start a petition?

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/

AS OF JANUARY 15, 2013:

To cross the first threshold and be searchable within WhiteHouse.gov, a petition must reach 150 signatures within 30 days.

To cross the second threshold and require a response, a petition must reach 100,000 signatures within 30 days.

[achtung082]

I vote to sell the r9 - to - r12

This is a difficult one for me as I am still starting out and was counting on these payouts coming in, but based on the $ return so far and the hardware resale price, I have to vote sell. It will probably all come back to the co-op anyway, or I can cash out and pay my oil bill
Bobsag3 has done a great job getting these going and keeping them running, but I am sure it has taken a lot more of his time then he will be compensated for. I don’t want to see the hosting fee increase because of hardware that is “high maintenance”.
It only makes good business sense to get out while you can and spend the time sourcing new gear that can run without a nanny.

+1 on the Kudos to DZ/bobsag3

[testerx]

You have a good point, no one is trying to dismiss you.
I have been working on these boards, and as you can see from "Worker1" they are way under, even with my personal Jupiter running.

We have several options here:

-I can continue to work at it, but the fact is these bitfury boards (and the chips in general) are not reliable hashers. We can do a small BTC refund for the less than promised hash rate (to be distributed in the next payout)

-I have received an offer to purchase all the boards I have in $, and I can sell them then divide up all the money evenly between 400 shares and refund everyone the appropriate BTC at the exchange rate.

Thoughts yall?

EDIT: I am trying to be as upfront and transparent as I can here, I have just been absolutely swamped the last few days (holidays + trip to china + see barntech's thread)

Wow, I thought this new hashrate was with the Jupiter taken off because it looks like it had dropped even after the replacement batch of boards came in.  How did the hashrate go lower after the new batch of boards arrived?  I thought the hashrate had dropped because there was a switch over to only bitfury boards or something.  So the bitfury boards are only hashing at 2.3Thash then?  This is really disappointing especially given how much money bitcoins are worth now, is Black Arrow going to make this right or what?

I honestly think we need to try running the miners on something other than raspberry pi's to see if this can be salvaged or something, this is insane how unreliable they've been.  If you think that we can get the hashrate working properly someday then please keep trying but I think the problem here is that maybe we're stretched too thin on manpower to keep something as finicky as bitfuries hashing away properly.

I would like to ROI in BTC though so I'd prefer to keep mining if possible at the original promised hashrate.  What exactly is the problem with the problematic boards though?  Lots of us are pretty good with tech so maybe we can help out with the bum boards?

How can there still be so many bad boards even with 35 new boards in?

[bobsag3]

You have a good point, no one is trying to dismiss you.
I have been working on these boards, and as you can see from "Worker1" they are way under, even with my personal Jupiter running.

We have several options here:

-I can continue to work at it, but the fact is these bitfury boards (and the chips in general) are not reliable hashers. We can do a small BTC refund for the less than promised hash rate (to be distributed in the next payout)

-I have received an offer to purchase all the boards I have in $, and I can sell them then divide up all the money evenly between 400 shares and refund everyone the appropriate BTC at the exchange rate.

Thoughts yall?

EDIT: I am trying to be as upfront and transparent as I can here, I have just been absolutely swamped the last few days (holidays + trip to china + see barntech's thread)

Wow, I thought this new hashrate was with the Jupiter taken off because it looks like it had dropped even after the replacement batch of boards came in.  How did the hashrate go lower after the new batch of boards arrived?  I thought the hashrate had dropped because there was a switch over to only bitfury boards or something.  So the bitfury boards are only hashing at 2.3Thash then?  This is really disappointing especially given how much money bitcoins are worth now, is Black Arrow going to make this right or what?

I honestly think we need to try running the miners on something other than raspberry pi's to see if this can be salvaged or something, this is insane how unreliable they've been.  If you think that we can get the hashrate working properly someday then please keep trying but I think the problem here is that maybe we're stretched too thin on manpower to keep something as finicky as bitfuries hashing away properly.

I would like to ROI in BTC though so I'd prefer to keep mining if possible at the original promised hashrate.  What exactly is the problem with the problematic boards though?  Lots of us are pretty good with tech so maybe we can help out with the bum boards?

How can there still be so many bad boards even with 35 new boards in?

Its half a problem with the PIs (they seem to get lazy/tired /die) and the rate drops off slowly, and Ive had some problems with the last V1 controllers and I will be picking up ~20 more of them to help me pin down the problems. Its just a very very time consuming process... because what may work to fix one stack will not work on the others.

Black Arrow has alos offered to rework them into V2 boards (much much better stability), and we are working on a plan to ship in increments to downsize theamount of hashrate down.

[dbasql]

I want to chime in here as I have what I would consider a fairly significant investment. In most GB's the GB coordinator(s) are not responsible for the hash rate against advertised hash rate. These boards have obviously been a challenge from the beginning. We knew were getting bleeding edge when this whole thing started. They (Black Arrow) are not shipping product until Feb 2014. I would think they would want our products to perform to avoid a bad rep and I can only assume they are trying as hard as they can.
I don't really care at this point what the majority vote turns out to be but I do want to say this..

These guys have done a unbelievable job with the coordination, setup and constant monitoring. I have been part of several so called investments and I have been fucked by 2/3 of them. In no case have I seen guys go this type of distance to make things "right".

Regardless how this turns out I want to thank you guys for making this as good as it could be. 
 

[thomas_s]

I want to chime in here as I have what I would consider a fairly significant investment. In most GB's the GB coordinator(s) are not responsible for the hash rate against advertised hash rate. These boards have obviously been a challenge from the beginning. We knew were getting bleeding edge when this whole thing started. They (Black Arrow) are not shipping product until Feb 2014. I would think they would want our products to perform to avoid a bad rep and I can only assume they are trying as hard as they can.
I don't really care at this point what the majority vote turns out to be but I do want to say this..

These guys have done a unbelievable job with the coordination, setup and constant monitoring. I have been part of several so called investments and I have been fucked by 2/3 of them. In no case have I seen guys go this type of distance to make things "right".

Regardless how this turns out I want to thank you guys for making this as good as it could be. 
 

We haven't F'd you we made sweet sweet love....lol

[dbasql]

I want to chime in here as I have what I would consider a fairly significant investment. In most GB's the GB coordinator(s) are not responsible for the hash rate against advertised hash rate. These boards have obviously been a challenge from the beginning. We knew were getting bleeding edge when this whole thing started. They (Black Arrow) are not shipping product until Feb 2014. I would think they would want our products to perform to avoid a bad rep and I can only assume they are trying as hard as they can.
I don't really care at this point what the majority vote turns out to be but I do want to say this..

These guys have done a unbelievable job with the coordination, setup and constant monitoring. I have been part of several so called investments and I have been fucked by 2/3 of them. In no case have I seen guys go this type of distance to make things "right".

Regardless how this turns out I want to thank you guys for making this as good as it could be. 
 

We haven't F'd you we made sweet sweet love....lol

Oh BOY 

Whatever makes your life easier is what I am up for. If selling makes you guys sleep better by all means pull the trigger.

[philipma1957]

deleted

[DyslexicZombei]

Thanks for being patient with this Bullet Run.

Another thing bobsag3 and crew had to deal with was: the flu!

He didn't mention this part but they had to deal with the flu on top of all the hardware failing.

[achtung082]

Perhaps Black Arrow would consider extending the old pre-order discount price through the end of December for the Co-Op as a good will offer. If after a vote the decision is made to sell the hardware, the round participants could then have the option to get additional discounted R17 shares.

[testerx]

Its half a problem with the PIs (they seem to get lazy/tired /die) and the rate drops off slowly, and Ive had some problems with the last V1 controllers and I will be picking up ~20 more of them to help me pin down the problems. Its just a very very time consuming process... because what may work to fix one stack will not work on the others.

Black Arrow has alos offered to rework them into V2 boards (much much better stability), and we are working on a plan to ship in increments to downsize theamount of hashrate down.

Well, my offer to try and help try and get a particularly problematic stack working still stands, I have plenty of spare hardware and even a good Hakko soldering station though if the problem is really all the boards then I guess black arrow really has to address this.  Anyways, have fun in Hong Kong/China.  Make sure to eat some good dim sum or something.

[madpoet]

What worries me is if these are so finicky, what about R17? 

[thomas_s]

What worries me is if these are so finicky, what about R17? 

R17 won't be using bitfury chips, they will be using custom minion chips.

[madpoet]

Ok thanks for the clarification.

I am torn.  I don't absolutely have to have the money right now, but it's a nice price and I wouldn't mind taking it.  As we look at difficulty increases with the new mining equipment coming out and the difficulties getting these things up and running at full speed our per share earnings are going to fall.  We were a little over .1 BTC per share last payout and that's going to drop.  At a payout every 15 days and 10 shares, I am not sure we will cover the $180 per share offer on the table in the next 30-45 days.  If the BTC price skyrockets obviously I'm wrong   I guess that's the gamble.

[testerx]

Ok thanks for the clarification.

I am torn.  I don't absolutely have to have the money right now, but it's a nice price and I wouldn't mind taking it.  As we look at difficulty increases with the new mining equipment coming out and the difficulties getting these things up and running at full speed our per share earnings are going to fall.  We were a little over .1 BTC per share last payout and that's going to drop.  At a payout every 15 days and 10 shares, I am not sure we will cover the $180 per share offer on the table in the next 30-45 days.  If the BTC price skyrockets obviously I'm wrong   I guess that's the gamble.

But it'll keep hashing long after two payouts.  I honestly think people are crazy impatient in the BTC world haha, for a real world investment to pay you what's equivalent to like 80% dividends every two weeks would be insane.

If you need cash now why not just resell your own shares, I'm sure people want in even at the finicky hash rate.

[redphlegm]

Ok thanks for the clarification.

I am torn.  I don't absolutely have to have the money right now, but it's a nice price and I wouldn't mind taking it.  As we look at difficulty increases with the new mining equipment coming out and the difficulties getting these things up and running at full speed our per share earnings are going to fall.  We were a little over .1 BTC per share last payout and that's going to drop.  At a payout every 15 days and 10 shares, I am not sure we will cover the $180 per share offer on the table in the next 30-45 days.  If the BTC price skyrockets obviously I'm wrong   I guess that's the gamble.

But it'll keep hashing long after two payouts.  I honestly think people are crazy impatient in the BTC world haha, for a real world investment to pay you what's equivalent to like 80% dividends every two weeks would be insane.

If you need cash now why not just resell your own shares, I'm sure people want in even at the finicky hash rate.

Agreed. I would rather receive the payments we have been receiving than to take the payment for the boards. I think that's a good compromise: to offer the shares for sale to others (though probably with a fee to manage payout addresses) if we go that route. The only way I would be okay selling the boards is that if the money raised goes towards different boards with a higher hashrate that have a definite delivery date in the not-so-distant future. Keep in mind though, the longer we wait and aren't hashing, KnC gets that much closer.

[madpoet]

There already is a transfer fee spelled out in the GB so that's in place.  I was just offered multiple Jupiters at a good rate for instance.  If these weren't problematic and ran at full hash I probably wouldn't care.