Black Arrow R9-12 threads, DZ Miners Co-op. Plz move ?s and discussion here.

[slayernine]

I am OK with selling.  I only have one share in R9-12.

[1714748878]

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[Hili]

I'd rather not sell the equipment, I think we'll mine more btc than we'd get selling the hardware...

What worries me is if these are so finicky, what about R17?  

R17 won't be using bitfury chips, they will be using custom minion chips.

Yeah, but they'll use a modified version of the same board, won't they?
I hope they modify them enough so that they'll be much more stable.

[redphlegm]

I'd rather not sell the equipment, I think we'll mine more btc than we'd get selling the hardware...

This is how I feel. Let's just get a machine that's less finicky than a RPi. Even a $200 netbook with Ubuntu should do the trick.

[gregorzmine]

Same thing here, do not sell the hardware so quickly.

[btc6000]

Same thing here, do not sell the hardware so quickly.

+1 I paid in BTC expecting ROI in BTC, not crappy USD.

If the PIs are causing issues eliminate them from the equation first.

Cheers

[philipma1957]

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[madpoet]

So.. lots of discussion but little action.  I'll set the floor.  After thinking about it last night if the offer is still on the table my vote with my 10 shares is sell.   

[philipma1957]

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[philipma1957]

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[Hili]

It is very difficult to see forum members holding on to the belief :

I must do a btc roi

Why is it difficult? It's very simple: I believe we are going to make more btc keeping the miners mining than we are selling them.

Yes we have ROI'd in fiat currencies, but we haven't yet in BTC. We paid 0.63BTC per share and have received 0.21BTC. This means that we have less btc now than when we started, this is a bad thing.

If we keep hashing at 8GH/s with a difficulty jump of 80% every month, we will have mined 0.35BTC by the end of april. That's more than the 0.16BTC we'll have selling the hardware at todays exchange rate. That 0.16BTC will be even less by the time the sell of the hardware has been made.


If you're meaning to sell these shares to buy into R17, I advise against it. Not that R17 is a bad deal (I don't think so, I have bought shares in R17), but if you sell shares in one round at a loss to buy into a next round, that might lead to continous losses every time a more profitable round shows up. By the time R17 started hashing, difficulty might have risen that much that you would come to the thought of selling those shares to invest in another round again.

[madpoet]

Its only a loss if you care more about BTC than fiat.  I'm not going to argue one way or another, I've put my vote up.

[tgbtg_2013]

R9-12 should be producing 2.3745 BTC at the current difficulty rating.

As of this writing, the 24 BTC for R9-12 is 1.67354500. The next projected difficulty is showing as 889,752,235 and if R9-12 were at 3.34GH/s this would be 1.8879 BTC for a 24 hour period.

I do appreciate ALL THE HARD WORK Bob has put into getting R9-12 up and running, but if this equipment is not going to meet the 3.34GH/s, I say we put it to a GB vote and move forward.

[philipma1957]

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[bcabes]

R9-12 should be producing 2.3745 BTC at the current difficulty rating.

As of this writing, the 24 BTC for R9-12 is 1.67354500. The next projected difficulty is showing as 889,752,235 and if R9-12 were at 3.34GH/s this would be 1.8879 BTC for a 24 hour period.

I do appreciate ALL THE HARD WORK Bob has put into getting R9-12 up and running, but if this equipment is not going to be productive, I say we put it to a GB vote and move forward.

I second this, but I think we need some more official way to vote than over the forums.

[Mapuo]

okay  bobs offer was 180 a share I...

Bob says... We need auction. 180 is ridiculous.

[dbasql]

It is very difficult to see forum members holding on to the belief :

I must do a btc roi

Why is it difficult? It's very simple: I believe we are going to make more btc keeping the miners mining than we are selling them.

Yes we have ROI'd in fiat currencies, but we haven't yet in BTC. We paid 0.63BTC per share and have received 0.21BTC. This means that we have less btc now than when we started, this is a bad thing.

If we keep hashing at 8GH/s with a difficulty jump of 80% every month, we will have mined 0.35BTC by the end of april. That's more than the 0.16BTC we'll have selling the hardware at todays exchange rate. That 0.16BTC will be even less by the time the sell of the hardware has been made.


If you're meaning to sell these shares to buy into R17, I advise against it. Not that R17 is a bad deal (I don't think so, I have bought shares in R17), but if you sell shares in one round at a loss to buy into a next round, that might lead to continous losses every time a more profitable round shows up. By the time R17 started hashing, difficulty might have risen that much that you would come to the thought of selling those shares to invest in another round again.

Agree with this but also see this point.
tgbtg

R9-12 should be producing 2.3745 BTC at the current difficulty rating.

As of this writing, the 24 BTC for R9-12 is 1.67354500. The next projected difficulty is showing as 889,752,235 and if R9-12 were at 3.34GH/s this would be 1.8879 BTC for a 24 hour period.

I do appreciate ALL THE HARD WORK Bob has put into getting R9-12 up and running, but if this equipment is not going to meet the 3.34GH/s, I say we put it to a GB vote and move forward.

It would be easier to make a decision if the hashing was maxed. DMZ made an official poll in the KNC perhaps we should do that too.

[Ridicuss]

It is very difficult to see forum members holding on to the belief :

I must do a btc roi

Why is it difficult? It's very simple: I believe we are going to make more btc keeping the miners mining than we are selling them.

Yes we have ROI'd in fiat currencies, but we haven't yet in BTC. We paid 0.63BTC per share and have received 0.21BTC. This means that we have less btc now than when we started, this is a bad thing.

If we keep hashing at 8GH/s with a difficulty jump of 80% every month, we will have mined 0.35BTC by the end of april. That's more than the 0.16BTC we'll have selling the hardware at todays exchange rate. That 0.16BTC will be even less by the time the sell of the hardware has been made.


If you're meaning to sell these shares to buy into R17, I advise against it. Not that R17 is a bad deal (I don't think so, I have bought shares in R17), but if you sell shares in one round at a loss to buy into a next round, that might lead to continous losses every time a more profitable round shows up. By the time R17 started hashing, difficulty might have risen that much that you would come to the thought of selling those shares to invest in another round again.

okay  bobs offer was 180 a share I have 11 shares.  180 usd is  about .157btc

 If you like this r9=r12    buy a share or 2 at .157 btc    from me.  I will pay dZcoop the transfer fee.

In fact I would sell up to 5 of my 11 shares for 180 usd or .157 btc.  

  each I pay the transfer fees.  we can use coinbase rate  in case btc moves a lot from the current rate of 1114 usd a coin. by more the 5%

For all my shares I really don't want to fully sell the gear.

 I have always said sell half keep half.

 I am happy with the half loaf concept.     selling half means I middle my profit.  

  keeping all or selling all will max  profit or min profit.  

Not sure if I would do it or not, but I like the way Philip thinks about this. However I would want to hear more official options from the Group Buy Coordinators about all options. Im on the fence at the moment to keep or bail, but I must say I like the half loaf analogy. USD wise I have nothing to loose letting hash as is until dead but missing a good exit point might be regretted.

Risk mitigation is not always a bad thing.

Regards.

[philipma1957]

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[testerx]

Personally I have decided to sell some of my hash power at a profit and put it into the r17 buy. Now so far to my disappointment dZcoop shareholders have not decided to offload some of r5 r6 r9 r10 r11 or r12. I have about 200gh of hash in those group buys.
 I wanted to sell half of the kncs I wanted to sell the black arrows.

So sell your shares in the hardware, I don't know why you're whining that other people don't wish to sell their hardware.  I still own my BFL Singles even though I could have sold them for a substantial sum of BTC.  If you need the money sell your shares, don't expect everyone else to wish to sell their mining hardware.

Also, I'm quite confident that we will mine back more than an additional 72K even with the difficulty going up, so it makes no damned sense from either a BTC or fiat perspective to sell.  If you don't want your shares sell it to someone else.

I've put far more money into other pre-orders anyway and I wouldn't be willing to give up any of them at this point.  If you want out then sell your shares to someone by listing it on the forum, my guess is that there are many people who would be willing to pay you a similar amount to what you would obtain as proceeds from the coop selling the hardware.  It's a democratic coop so it's majority rules, if you wish to convince us then you need to show us some math that actually shows that we won't ever make more than the offer but that's simply not the case.  If it was the case I wouldn't be heavily invested in other pre-orders.  

Anyways, if you want to put it to an official vote then each share should be a vote, and thus there will be 400 total votes from rounds 9-12.  And I think we should have rules about what minimum # of days people have to decide and what minimum percentage of people have to vote for it to pass (i.e. you can't just have some vote that nobody knows about and only 20% of people respond to).

So far it seems like most people do not want to sell but then again I don't know how many shares everyone holds so I'm not sure which side of the line it really falls under but honestly, why don't you just sell your shares if you're really concerned?

[philipma1957]

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