Black Arrow R9-12 threads, DZ Miners Co-op. Plz move ?s and discussion here.

[dbasql]

Are we still getting the first two weeks of Dec. payout on the 15th and the share price if we decide to sell?

[thomas_s]

Are we still getting the first two weeks of Dec. payout on the 15th and the share price if we decide to sell?

Yes the sell will be added to what was mined.

[tgbtg_2013]

I would like to hope that Bob has a fix it in his pocket after his return visit with BA whether it is a software or hardware issue. I'm sure he will provide a good balance to R9-12 recovery as well as getting the new hardware up and running.

As you know, every second that goes by is lost of BTC if R9-12 is not producing 2.3745 BTC every 24 hours at the current difficulty of 707,408,283.

[dbasql]

It is a bit hard to decide without the news from his trip. I would like to know what he thinks generally as well. He may want us to sell because it is casing an enormous amount of his personal time which I can sympathize with.

[thomas_s]

It is a bit hard to decide without the news from his trip. I would like to know what he thinks generally as well. He may want us to sell because it is casing an enormous amount of his personal time which I can sympathize with.

This offer was given to bobsag3, and he forwarded to me. You are free to hold off your vote.

[davedx]

I'm also waiting to hear the results of the trip. I'd love to know if it's a realistic expectation to get the hash rate to nominal.

E2A: at the moment selling = profit in fiat or loss in BTC. Therefore I'm still inclined to keep mining, even with the risk of taking a small BTC loss. I want BTC, not fiat.

[Hili]

With the 100$ increase in the offer per share, my opinion of 'absolutely not selling' to  'probably not selling'.

When will bobsag3 return or be able to comment on possibility of increasing the hashrate?
If it is decided to sell the hardware, will the USD be converted to XBT on the 14th?

[Mapuo]

With the 100$ increase in the offer per share, my opinion of 'absolutely not selling' to  'probably not selling'.

Absolutely not selling in fiat, only in BTC with profit.

[philipma1957]

With the 100$ increase in the offer per share, my opinion of 'absolutely not selling' to  'probably not selling'.

Absolutely not selling in fiat, only in BTC with profit.

You know Dz coop can announce the vote 202 of 400 shares says sell it .  And they could pay you 287 cash per share like the rest of us.  We are in this on a trust basis .  We trust and hope the correct thing is  going to be done. If you want a btc profit trust me it will not happen.  The only profit is going to be fiat. These machines will not earn a btc profit.


If you want  to argue btc will go to 3k then take the 287 a share and convert it to btc and hold it.
   

[philipma1957]

 To further the argument as to no btc profit diff will jump to 900 mill in a day.

I get that btc profit is a nice simple idea.   It is not going to happen here.  We had 2 nice adjustments now we get a bad one. 25-30% .



As to btc price jump  that may happen as to btc price drop well it did go under 600 usd on the 6th. It is now 900.

do the math at 900 mill btc roi is ? days from now.  a share should be 8.3 ghs at 900 mill diff it earns .133 btc in a month

287 is about .3btc  so at todays price you are getting more then 2 months of btc earned if diff freezes at 900 mill.

 


Besides the sale at 287 .  the short fall of btc must be dealt with it is 17 or 18 btc short and it is separate from the sale  it is about .0425-.0450 a

share.

If I take the 287 buyout  I still want the shortfall addressed. or is the 287 including the shortfall.

 which means the buyout is  247 and the shortfall is 40.   BTW I am fine with this but I am sure other want the 287 plus the missing coin.

[Mapuo]

4 months at 3.333TH, and 10 BTC compensation for low speed.

[philipma1957]

4 months at 3.333TH, and 10 BTC compensation for low speed.

why  4 months.   the 10 -17 btc makes sense for the shortfall   but the 4 months of hash  no ,


here is why the 4 months is not needed   the 287 is worth more then 2.4 months of  hash at a diff of 900 mill.    we will have hashed from nov 1 to dec 15  that is 1.5 months  so you get 3.9 months worth of hash in 1.5 months of holding the gear.  basically to not sell is a really crazy move. with just about 0 math sense .


your risk of btc price drop is vanished  poof gone.  and if you really think btc will go up hold some btc with the money.

[Mapuo]

4 months at 3.333TH, and 10 BTC compensation for low speed.

why  4 months.   the 10 -17 btc makes sense for the shortfall   but the 4 months of hash  no ,


here is why the 4 months is not needed   the 287 is worth more then 2.4 months of  hash at a diff of 900 mill.    we will have hashed from nov 1 to dec 15  that is 1.5 months  so you get 3.9 months worth of hash in 1.5 months of holding the gear.  basically to not sell is a really crazy move. with just about 0 math sense .


your risk of btc price drop is vanished  poof gone.  and if you really think btc will go up hold some btc with the money.

I havent risk with price drop. And I talk for ROI for .40 BTC, the other .21 are in my wallet

[philipma1957]

here you go  each share cost  .63 btc they have paid .23 btc so we are at .40 btc loss.   each share


they offer 287 that is .312 btc   so   I get that you do not want to take a btc loss

 .400
-.312


.088  btc loss  

they will pay us divs on the 15th so  that div will be at least .05 a share    
 so .088 - .05 = .038 btc loss each share maybe less once you figure the div for the 15th of  dec.  also maybe less once you add in the short fall.
as we are short about .042 btc a share.  so in btc you would be a push. or close to a push


but if you hold your share  8gh


not earn .4 btc    until late june  of 2014 and the diff needs to be under 16%

 so as for a roi in btc you just will most likely never ever see that.

A roi in fiat yes btc no. just is not going to happen.

BTW a great roi in fiat truly great return.  Trust me   This is an amazing return.

Now if you want to argue anything about more fiat  we should get 287 plus the dividends  up to the 15th and the btc shortfall of  .0425-.045 each share fine I am down with that.

But btc roi is not here won't happen   you can not get blood from a stone.

 to get roi in btc we need to keep the network at a 14% difficulty adjustment for 6 months in a row,  this is pretty much impossible.

[JPNYC]

Worker 1 hash rate is down to 746.752 Gh/s

Did Bob left someone behind to watch the rigs?

[Ridicuss]

Guys,

Philipma1957's math and logic is good here. If you want a BTC increase you would better off using some trading strategies on one of the exchanges. Buy low, Sell high, Its a proven method that will increase your BTC.  In my opinion mining is more speculative.

If you are truly set on mining and increasing your BTC, and as stated by some, USD(or your currency of choice) means nothing to you. Buy a miner with your currency(remeber your traditional currency means nothing to you). Put your miner in a room and collect BTC. Instantly you have increased your BTC holdings.

We will see how it shakes out.

Also consider if you take payout from this GB, you can then buy shares in r-17 and keep the BTC coming in.

Best Regards,

[philipma1957]

one last try to explain this.  

1 share of r 9 = 8gh     hand me 287 cash for it today .. I buy 1 share of r17 cost me 130 cash.


 I have 157 in my pocket.   and 40th Down the road.

I paid only  123  for one share of r9    

  
  i have  collected .23 in btc  and

 I have 40 gh to replace the 8gb I have now.    if  diff stays at 25%   we  

jump to 883 on the 11th

jump to 1104 on the 22th

jump to 1380 on the 2nd Jan

jump to 1726 on the 13th Jan

jump to 2157 on the 24th Jan

jump to 2696 on the  4th feb

jump to 3371 on the  11th feb

jump to 4214 on the 22nd feb.       this is not quite 5x of tomorrow's diff.     so  once we go on line with the new gear we will be equal or better then we are now.  and that is with putting back half the money you would be paid.  130 of the 287

if you put back 260 of the 287 you get 80GH in future hash. 

  BFL the greatest of all a sic builders wants 10.80 a gh  so 287 gets you  26 gh hash power for 1 year with no ownership of the gear.

 So if you really want to hash  buy some in r17 and pull some money out for the holidays.

[dbasql]

Can we have some clarification on the "rules" here? Is this going to be decided one way or another with a majority even if some people do not vote?
We are only a week away and many are waiting on Bob's results.
Thanks

[thomas_s]

Can we have some clarification on the "rules" here? Is this going to be decided one way or another with a majority even if some people do not vote?
We are only a week away and many are waiting on Bob's results.
Thanks

The decision is going to be made either way

51% of votes say yes = sell
or
201 shares vote yes = sell

or

51% of votes say no = no sell
or
201 shares vote no = no sell

[davedx]

one last try to explain this.  

1 share of r 9 = 8gh     hand me 287 cash for it today .. I buy 1 share of r17 cost me 130 cash.


 I have 157 in my pocket.   and 40th Down the road.

I paid only  123  for one share of r9    

  
  i have  collected .23 in btc  and

 I have 40 gh to replace the 8gb I have now.    if  diff stays at 25%   we  

jump to 883 on the 11th

jump to 1104 on the 22th

jump to 1380 on the 2nd Jan

jump to 1726 on the 13th Jan

jump to 2157 on the 24th Jan

jump to 2696 on the  4th feb

jump to 3371 on the  11th feb

jump to 4214 on the 22nd feb.       this is not quite 5x of tomorrow's diff.     so  once we go on line with the new gear we will be equal or better then we are now.  and that is with putting back half the money you would be paid.  130 of the 287

if you put back 260 of the 287 you get 80GH in future hash. 

  BFL the greatest of all a sic builders wants 10.80 a gh  so 287 gets you  26 gh hash power for 1 year with no ownership of the gear.

 So if you really want to hash  buy some in r17 and pull some money out for the holidays.

It's definitely worth discussing this, but in my position this has two issues.

1. Swapping short-term risk (not being able to get hashrate up) for long-term risk (new hardware is delivered and hashes as advertised)

2. Putting all my eggs in one basket. I already have shares in R17. I'd like to keep my shares diversified if possible.