Black Arrow R9-12 threads, DZ Miners Co-op. Plz move ?s and discussion here.

[Vagnavs]

[/quote]

rounds 9-12 made more then 68000 usd. it was about 50000 usd in and about 120000 usd out

  it more then doubled the usd cost to create the setup.

 but if you purchased btc you would have done better.

 basically your  comparsion is I picked stock and changed 50000usd to 120000usd  but if I had picked stock b (buy and hold the btc) I would have changed  50000 usd into   400000 usd.

 but you would still be a failure since you did not sell the btc at 1200usd.  you would be saying I should have sold at the all time high


so rounds 9 to 12 are successful but not as successful as buying btc was.   far from a failure.

just not as good.  I only say this because every country in the world that charges tax would charge you tax on the profit made on rounds 9 to rounds 12.
[/quote]

well, when I made the decision to buy. It was that I would make more BTC than invested. I know the argument USD/BTC and so on.
Regards,
Brian

[1714863574]

1714863574

[philipma1957]

well, when I made the decision to buy. It was that I would make more BTC than invested. I know the argument USD/BTC and so on.
Regards,
Brian

well fiat vs btc.  does get people going.

 But frankly almost no one has done roi mining in btc since last spring..


Of all of dz coops winners (in fiat) only  the knc r5+r6 is close to roi in btc.   And if we sold the knc from rounds 5+6 today it would be roi'd in btc.   as we could get 10k-14k  for the pair

The last gear that made roi easy in btc was anything from BFL if you got it before july 30th of 2013.  before that avalon made easy roi in btc.

[philipma1957]

my larger concern is the shortfall in hash/btc has not been addressed.   

 we got  a share payout of .02866 btc  today   times 400 =  about 11.464 btc



Jan 1 and Jan 2 are  diff of 1180 mill    we should have earned 1.406 a day x 2 =  2.812 btc

Jan 3 - Jan 13  are   diff of 1418 mill    we should have earned  1.170 a day x 11 = 12.87 btc

Jan 14 - Jan 15 are a diff of 1789 mill  we should have earned  .9274 a day x 1   =  .9274 btc  I won't count the 15th as it is a partial


 this is 16.6094 btc   vs 11.464 btc   that is more then a 5 coin shortfall

[Vagnavs]

my larger concern is the shortfall in hash/btc has not been addressed.   

 we got  a share payout of .02866 btc  today   times 400 =  about 11.464 btc



Jan 1 and Jan 2 are  diff of 1180 mill    we should have earned 1.406 a day x 2 =  2.812 btc

Jan 3 - Jan 13  are   diff of 1418 mill    we should have earned  1.170 a day x 11 = 12.87 btc

Jan 14 - Jan 15 are a diff of 1789 mill  we should have earned  .9274 a day x 1   =  .9274 btc  I won't count the 15th as it is a partial


 this is 16.6094 btc   vs 11.464 btc   that is more then a 5 coin shortfall

I'm interested in seeing how it is resolved as well..

[philipma1957]

my larger concern is the shortfall in hash/btc has not been addressed.   

 we got  a share payout of .02866 btc  today   times 400 =  about 11.464 btc



Jan 1 and Jan 2 are  diff of 1180 mill    we should have earned 1.406 a day x 2 =  2.812 btc

Jan 3 - Jan 13  are   diff of 1418 mill    we should have earned  1.170 a day x 11 = 12.87 btc

Jan 14 - Jan 15 are a diff of 1789 mill  we should have earned  .9274 a day x 1   =  .9274 btc  I won't count the 15th as it is a partial


 this is 16.6094 btc   vs 11.464 btc   that is more then a 5 coin shortfall

I'm interested in seeing how it is resolved as well..

Please don't forget this is 5 coins over the last 2 weeks plus the 11-13   we were already short.  grand total is around 16-18 btc.  or about .0425btc per share  .  now they have done a lot of work for us quite a bit.  and usd/fiat  wise  we made money on this round.

 but  r15+r16 is a bit short as is r5+r6..

 I worry about round 17 as the entire coop's future is kind of sunk into r17…  well time will tell.

 I also worry that if btc jumps from 850 to 3000 the 16 -18 coins here jump from

13600/15300  to 48000/54000 usd.

 the growing shortage here is now big enough to buy 5  ant miner s-1's.

[btc6000]

Of all of dz coops winners (in fiat) only  the knc r5+r6 is close to roi in btc.   And if we sold the knc from rounds 5+6 today it would be roi'd in btc.   as we could get 10k-14k  for the pair

Realistically, if we sold our hardware now, would we still make a BTC loss?

Cheers,

[Vagnavs]

my larger concern is the shortfall in hash/btc has not been addressed.   

 we got  a share payout of .02866 btc  today   times 400 =  about 11.464 btc



Jan 1 and Jan 2 are  diff of 1180 mill    we should have earned 1.406 a day x 2 =  2.812 btc

Jan 3 - Jan 13  are   diff of 1418 mill    we should have earned  1.170 a day x 11 = 12.87 btc

Jan 14 - Jan 15 are a diff of 1789 mill  we should have earned  .9274 a day x 1   =  .9274 btc  I won't count the 15th as it is a partial


 this is 16.6094 btc   vs 11.464 btc   that is more then a 5 coin shortfall

I'm interested in seeing how it is resolved as well..

Please don't forget this is 5 coins over the last 2 weeks plus the 11-13   we were already short.  grand total is around 16-18 btc.  or about .0425btc per share  .  now they have done a lot of work for us quite a bit.  and usd/fiat  wise  we made money on this round.

 but  r15+r16 is a bit short as is r5+r6..

 I worry about round 17 as the entire coop's future is kind of sunk into r17…  well time will tell.

 I also worry that if btc jumps from 850 to 3000 the 16 -18 coins here jump from

13600/15300  to 48000/54000 usd.

 the growing shortage here is now big enough to buy 5  ant miner s-1's.

Thanks for keeping track of the BTC/USD and your analysis. I'm curious to see how things work out.
regards,
Brian

[philipma1957]

my larger concern is the shortfall in hash/btc has not been addressed.   

 we got  a share payout of .02866 btc  today   times 400 =  about 11.464 btc



Jan 1 and Jan 2 are  diff of 1180 mill    we should have earned 1.406 a day x 2 =  2.812 btc

Jan 3 - Jan 13  are   diff of 1418 mill    we should have earned  1.170 a day x 11 = 12.87 btc

Jan 14 - Jan 15 are a diff of 1789 mill  we should have earned  .9274 a day x 1   =  .9274 btc  I won't count the 15th as it is a partial


 this is 16.6094 btc   vs 11.464 btc   that is more then a 5 coin shortfall

I'm interested in seeing how it is resolved as well..

Please don't forget this is 5 coins over the last 2 weeks plus the 11-13   we were already short.  grand total is around 16-18 btc.  or about .0425btc per share  .  now they have done a lot of work for us quite a bit.  and usd/fiat  wise  we made money on this round.

 but  r15+r16 is a bit short as is r5+r6..

 I worry about round 17 as the entire coop's future is kind of sunk into r17…  well time will tell.

 I also worry that if btc jumps from 850 to 3000 the 16 -18 coins here jump from

13600/15300  to 48000/54000 usd.

 the growing shortage here is now big enough to buy 5  ant miner s-1's.

Thanks for keeping track of the BTC/USD and your analysis. I'm curious to see how things work out.
regards,
Brian

  well remember the numbers are based on 'normal luck'  so one can argue a bit higher or lower but the numbers are close.

they have made efforts to address this.  they made 2 payments of btc and they added a knc miner on and off. but lately  the last 2 payments no coin was added and we were short hash almost every day of the 30 days that were the last 2 payments.   we did have a few days of excess hash power. but it has been frustrating

[Tehfiend]

my larger concern is the shortfall in hash/btc has not been addressed.   

 we got  a share payout of .02866 btc  today   times 400 =  about 11.464 btc



Jan 1 and Jan 2 are  diff of 1180 mill    we should have earned 1.406 a day x 2 =  2.812 btc

Jan 3 - Jan 13  are   diff of 1418 mill    we should have earned  1.170 a day x 11 = 12.87 btc

Jan 14 - Jan 15 are a diff of 1789 mill  we should have earned  .9274 a day x 1   =  .9274 btc  I won't count the 15th as it is a partial


 this is 16.6094 btc   vs 11.464 btc   that is more then a 5 coin shortfall

I'm interested in seeing how it is resolved as well..

Same here. When DZ was all over the forums pumping this co-op I kept saying there's no way it will have positive BTC ROI but decided to buy one share just to see and now am glad I only bought a single share as it's not even close.

[achtung082]

Back to

Worker 1 Hash Rate       0 Gh/s
Worker 2 Hash Rate       2767.41 Gh/s
Worker 3 Hash Rate       0 Gh/s

[philipma1957]

my larger concern is the shortfall in hash/btc has not been addressed.   

 we got  a share payout of .02866 btc  today   times 400 =  about 11.464 btc



Jan 1 and Jan 2 are  diff of 1180 mill    we should have earned 1.406 a day x 2 =  2.812 btc

Jan 3 - Jan 13  are   diff of 1418 mill    we should have earned  1.170 a day x 11 = 12.87 btc

Jan 14 - Jan 15 are a diff of 1789 mill  we should have earned  .9274 a day x 1   =  .9274 btc  I won't count the 15th as it is a partial


 this is 16.6094 btc   vs 11.464 btc   that is more then a 5 coin shortfall

I'm interested in seeing how it is resolved as well..

Same here. When DZ was all over the forums pumping this co-op I kept saying there's no way it will have positive BTC ROI but decided to buy one share just to see and now am glad I only bought a single share as it's not even close.

well  roi in btc has been next to impossible since july of 2013.
very early BFL buyers clearly roi'd in btc.  very early avalon buyers roi'd in btc.
even group 5+6 with knc is almost roi'd in btc.

 I do not have any concerns about roi in btc .  If I did I would not mine.  for btc to work you need miners and you need investors in btc.  you can be both or be either one.
To complain is okay but  if everyone stopped mining this would die.  If everyone stopped buying the coins this would die.
        So to think this buy is a failure in btc roi it is. it is not a failure in usd/fiat.  frankly I don't care about that.

 i do care about the unaddressed shortfall in promised hash rate. if I had received full hash power I would had earned 11 shares x .04 btc = .44btc more then I have.

[Tehfiend]

well  roi in btc has been next to impossible since july of 2013.
very early BFL buyers clearly roi'd in btc.  very early avalon buyers roi'd in btc.
even group 5+6 with knc is almost roi'd in btc.

 I do not have any concerns about roi in btc .  If I did I would not mine.  for btc to work you need miners and you need investors in btc.  you can be both or be either one.
To complain is okay but  if everyone stopped mining this would die.  If everyone stopped buying the coins this would die.
        So to think this buy is a failure in btc roi it is. it is not a failure in usd/fiat.  frankly I don't care about that.

 i do care about the unaddressed shortfall in promised hash rate. if I had received full hash power I would had earned 11 shares x .04 btc = .44btc more then I have.

I'm really trying to understand this mindset. You are basically saying that you willingly donate your BTC to ASIC manufacturers. While I admire your altruistic desire to protect the network I don't understand what exactly you hope to accomplish by this. IMO this sort of belief is what creates an industry of ASIC manufactures that are always late and over priced since there are plenty of people willing to take a BTC loss so long as they have a fiat profit. I don't think it's a good model were investing in mining hardware is only feasible with a constantly increasing exchange rate...

[Vagnavs]

well it's a learning lesson.. Will the co-op be making up for the shortfall? or are we going to eat the shortfall.

[achtung082]

I personally don’t believe the co-op is responsible for poor performing hardware; any more responsible then we would be as individuals who could have purchased this hardware. If this hardware was sitting in your house who would you be holding responsible? I would be complaining to the re-seller and or manufacturer and making the issue very public until someone at least responds with a reasonable explanation or plan to correct the issue. The Co-Op has swapped out hardware for this round in an attempt to correct the issue, but I have always been off the opinion that blackarrow should have done or be doing a lot more to correct their bad hardware.

I would be very reluctant to purchase anything from BA ever again.

[thomas_s]

I personally don’t believe the co-op is responsible for poor performing hardware; any more responsible then we would be as individuals who could have purchased this hardware. If this hardware was sitting in your house who would you be holding responsible? I would be complaining to the re-seller and or manufacturer and making the issue very public until someone at least responds with a reasonable explanation or plan to correct the issue. The Co-Op has swapped out hardware for this round in an attempt to correct the issue, but I have always been off the opinion that blackarrow should have done or be doing a lot more to correct their bad hardware.

I would be very reluctant to purchase anything from BA ever again.

The problem isn't the boards themselves its the way the rpi's react with cgminer, chainminer and bitfury's

[achtung082]

Thank you for your reply thomas.

I recall this being stated in the past. I must confess I did forget that this was the issue. This being said, it is very difficult to believe that they did not know this issue existed prior to or shortly after shipping. They did seem to have a lot of these running at their facility and should have had amply time to work out a solution by now. They are still selling these after all.

I know you have stated previously that the Prospero are different, but they are using rPi’s, so we are all hoping they have done their homework.

[thomas_s]

Thank you for your reply thomas.

I recall this being stated in the past. I must confess I did forget that this was the issue. This being said, it is very difficult to believe that they did not know this issue existed prior to or shortly after shipping. They did seem to have a lot of these running at their facility and should have had amply time to work out a solution by now. They are still selling these after all.

I know you have stated previously that the Prospero are different, but they are using rPi’s, so we are all hoping they have done their homework.

The problem happens when you run large stacks of them, chainminer begins to loose track of the work and basically just says F this, which is why it needs to be restarted.

We do have some smaller stacks running without issues w/ heavily modified software but some of the larger stacks are just a ton of work to even keep up for a day.
If you only have a few its not that bad, but R9-12 used about 50-100 boards.

[dbasql]

I know this has been kicked around but would it be wise to part this hardware out and sell it now? If running many units at one time is an issue we would not be knowingly giving anyone "bad" hardware.

[thomas_s]

I know this has been kicked around but would it be wise to part this hardware out and sell it now? If running many units at one time is an issue we would not be knowingly giving anyone "bad" hardware.

R9-12 was replaced with different boards.

[dbasql]

I know this has been kicked around but would it be wise to part this hardware out and sell it now? If running many units at one time is an issue we would not be knowingly giving anyone "bad" hardware.

R9-12 was replaced with different boards.

Does that mean it can't be sold?
To be clear I do not understand the mind set of blaming the GB leaders for issues. We all knew this was a risky proposition when we signed up. Nothing in the BTC mining world in guaranteed. I think they have clearly tried everything possible to make good on the GHS per share. The fact is very little GB are going to ROI in BTC especially when hosted in a "real" data center. It must be almost impossible for a small group of guys to run this many GB's and everything be a 100% success.
Anyway is it possible to sell the equipment for USD? I like to ROI in BTC but this as well as many others have only ROI in USD.
It is what it is

I should add whatever the decision regarding their stance on ROI the GB leaders should post it sooner than later. Bad news is better than no news. Make a decision and hold the line.
DBA