Sold 0.008 btc for over 11,000 USD at mtgox [Updated]

[Bobnova]

Lets be realistic here.
McDonalds would fire the checker for screwing up, and then demand concrete proof from the customer that the customer doesn't have, and then keep the change.

If you-an-individual screwed up like that bank did you wouldn't find the police or the DA very useful at all.

Gox will get Gox's money back, because Gox is bigger than you.

[Dansko]

So if someone pays for a BigMac with a 100 bill without the person nor the cashier noticing McDonald's must hold the extra change waiting to return it whenever the person presents themself?

I think they would give it back up until the register was counted down. After that your SOL.

[kwukduck]

Nice price!
I completely fail to see why anyone is still using Gox when there are other exchanges that seem to do a much better job at less cost for the customers..

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Reminds me of the time my bank credited my account with $150,000. If MTGox is anything like my bank, they will charge your for every penny withdrawn.

[koin]

I will wait mtgox to post there announcement about the glitch.

https://support.mtgox.com/entries/20323996-mt-gox-system-update-troubles

so to understand this correctly.

mt. gox performs a major upgrade live, and rather than bringing the exchange down for maintenance relies simply on mysql table locks to prevent the processing of live activity.

even though this was a major update, and the date was known for weeks, the exchange didn't put even the basic protection of halting dwolla withdrawals for a few hours so that if anything went haywire (which it did, of course), all of the funds held by the exchange would still be under the control of the exchange?

does this accurately describe the situation?

[phantomcircuit]

I will wait mtgox to post there announcement about the glitch.

https://support.mtgox.com/entries/20323996-mt-gox-system-update-troubles

so to understand this correctly.

mt. gox performs a major upgrade live, and rather than bringing the exchange down for maintenance relies simply on mysql table locks to prevent the processing of live activity.

even though this was a major update, and the date was known for weeks, the exchange didn't put even the basic protection of halting dwolla withdrawals for a few hours so that if anything went haywire (which it did, of course), all of the funds held by the exchange would still be under the control of the exchange?

does this accurately describe the situation?

yes

[jondecker76]

i think that if someone got away with a trade, they should get to keep the money. Mtgox sure didn't give a shit about a lot of us (myself included) who had btc stolen from their database compromise.  that would be a bit if a double standard, now wouldn't it?

[BitPay Business Solutions]

somewhere, someone actually BOUGHT your BTC for $11,000.  Has anyone admitted to being that fat finger?

[koin]

Has anyone admitted to being that fat finger?

yes, tux admitted it was he (or, more specifically, that there was a problem during the migration).

apparently the mysql table lock was released, unexpectedly, during the migration.  activity occurred such that the api code was probably then mismatched against the underlying tables.  that is why the trades had to be rolled back -- they weren't real, nobody was buying at $11k per btc.

[JoelKatz]

Dwolla has stated up front from when I first heard about them that ACH chargebacks were possible.

We all know ACH chargebacks between the depositor and Dwolla are possible. That wasn't the issue. The issue is whether Dwolla will pass on the chargeback to the merchant if an ACH chargeback occurs. They specifically said they would not:

Remember, these are cash-based transactions! No credit card fees, chargeback concerns, or signing necessary!

http://www.dwolla.org/blog/retail-merchants-rejoice-web-kiosk-online/

And they had, and still have, no legal grounds to do so. The transfer from Dwolla to the merchant was approved by Dwolla. So they cannot claim the transfer to the merchant was unauthorized by the originator of that transfer.

Dwolla still has not claimed the right to pass on chargebacks to indirect recipients. All they have said is that they can chargeback the sender and they can claw back funds prior to arbitration. So if I put $100 in my Dwolla account and then reverse that deposit, they can deduct $100 from my Dwolla account without going to arbitration. They have never claimed the right to deduct from other people's Dwolla accounts, yet they have done so.

The receiving party of a transaction may be subject to chargebacks occurring within the account if claims are made by the sending party or by the financial institution. In the event fraud occurs, funds may be reversed and arbitration will begin with both parties.

https://www.dwolla.com/dialogs/terms_and_conditions.aspx

This clearly says that it is about chargebacks within the account. It doesn't say anything about charging back Jack's account because Jeff issued a dispute. The last part also doesn't say they can charge back Jack because Jeff did something fraudulent.

[Clipse]

Xiong Zhuang, I can tell you now that you will not see a penny of that withdrawal since its mostly manually processed and specially after the stuffup.

What may happen is that you would lose that money (you clearly wanted to run with it) and probably have your account locked on mtgox.

[aandreas]

i vote for op. would love to see him come away with that. whom can u trust, if not the price of the biggest exchange?

[idev]

Dwolla doesn't do chargebacks...you can't reverse the transaction.

Someone doesn't pay attention to current events it seems.

Dwolla's marketing speak is a bunch of shit, everywhere they said "no chargeback concerns" is a lie.

And yet everyone loves Dwolla but hates Paypal.

Yep its just another glorified Paypal clone with a nicer web design.

[Mistafreeze]

i vote for op. would love to see him come away with that. whom can u trust, if not the price of the biggest exchange?

It has nothing to do with trust when someone obviously tries to take advantage of a glitch. Nobody is dumb enough to believe that the price went up to the point of geting $11,000 for .08BTC.

If you walked into your bank and told them you wanted $10.00 in cash, and they handed you $110,000, would you still think you're entitled to it?

Why does it seem this community is about screwing or scamming anyone so long as it gets you ahead?

[kwukduck]

i vote for op. would love to see him come away with that. whom can u trust, if not the price of the biggest exchange?

It has nothing to do with trust when someone obviously tries to take advantage of a glitch. Nobody is dumb enough to believe that the price went up to the point of geting $11,000 for .08BTC.

If you walked into your bank and told them you wanted $10.00 in cash, and they handed you $110,000, would you still think you're entitled to it?

Why does it seem this community is about screwing or scamming anyone so long as it gets you ahead?

Because that's what people do...? Like, all the time, everywhere...

[Jack of Diamonds]

Because that's what people do...? Like, all the time, everywhere...

Would you murder someone just because nobody was there to see or gather evidence?

Or rob an old lady just because you're in the middle of nowhere
and she has $2000 in her purse to buy expensive medicine & there are no cops around

No, that's not what "people do". That's what a wild animal would do.
What do you do with wild animals which can't control their behavior? You put them in cages.

[elggawf]

No, that's not what "people do". That's what a wild animal would do.
What do you do with wild animals which can't control their behavior? You put them in cages.

That's not even true at all - many monkeys and great apes exhibit social structured behavior and they're wild animals. People are just idiots looking for a way to justify their sociopath tendencies, so they say shit like this:

I genuinely think the free market would have wanted me to keep the ~$1M I got for that two thirds of a Bitcoin. I object to MtGox's interventionism!

[Jack of Diamonds]

Chimpanzees and gorillas can have very complex social systems just as humans do.

What do they do with members which keep breaking the system or attempt stealing the resources of other members?
They either expel or kill them. http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474976794596

That's of course a bit extreme for humans (and I genuinely don't advocate it), but I'm saying even they have a system for their own kind that can't control themselves

[MagicalTux]

Xiong Zhuang, I can tell you now that you will not see a penny of that withdrawal since its mostly manually processed and specially after the stuffup.

What may happen is that you would lose that money (you clearly wanted to run with it) and probably have your account locked on mtgox.

We won't lock the account, as nothing was lost. It is an interesting way of showing things. We did a fuck up with this update that didn't go right (we did a dozen during the past month and it's the first update causing a major problem, we have found why and modified the procedures to make sure it won't happen again).

Anyway in this case Xiong Zhuang told us exactly how to get the funds back (cancelling the LR withdraw, thru crediting $2000 to his account, solving the negative balance and setting everything right). There is nothing else for us to do here.

We are auditing any account which got a negative balance following that bug. Yes, Dwolla can be reversed, and yes, we will ask for reversal if someone shows an intent to be evil. AML limits on withdraws prevent us from losing any significant amount, anyway.

[Vod]

Lets be realistic here.
McDonalds would fire the checker for screwing up, and then demand concrete proof from the customer that the customer doesn't have, and then keep the change.

I did retail many many moons ago, and I was taught to put the customers bill on top of the cash drawer, not in it.  Then you count your change and present it.  If the customer says he gave me $100, I can point to the $50 sitting there and say no you didn't.

Once the customer accepts the change and walks away, I put their bill in my cash drawer.  That transaction is committed and could not be reversed.