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Author Topic: Is 90% jobless rate possible when robots are used everywhere?  (Read 3812 times)
Littleshop
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August 01, 2011, 04:53:04 AM
 #21

Mercury - How Mercury Causes Neurodegeneration (Brain Damage)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VImCpWzXJ_w

Formaldehyde - Material Safety Data Sheet(MSDS): See harmful effects

http://www.solutions.ca/WHMIS/docs/msds.pdf

Vaccines - Look up Recombinant Vaccine or DNA Vaccine

http://virology-online.com/general/typesofvaccines.htm

This is a link?  Youtube?  Give me some real science. 

The MSDS sheet for Formaldehyde is a start.  At least there is something that we do not disagree on.  It is a bad thing if you do not use it properly.  So stop huffing it. 



This here is the only bit that has science backing it up and it is 'food for thought'.  It does not prove GM food is bad for people but it does for mice.  No decreased fertility may be just what the human race needs but that is another conversation. 



Better.  Now you may have me.....   


Now you lost me again.  Sperms should not use cell phones and some more quack science.   Seriously, briefs can also lower fertility.  You might want to try boxers.
_______

Flouride: God there's so much information on the harmful effects of Flouride it's sick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3y8uwtxrHo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hW0_UMtsb4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NFOnQQMnx4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v_fzNyg95o&feature=related

Seriously dude pull your head out of your bum, you couldn't even be bothered to research anything of what I said before you blathered on with that garbage you wrote.
 
Seriously.  Youtube is not a source for science.  You put some real stuff not quack science.  Most of the world has non fluoridated water, we can see the effects with and without.  Show me some evidence that the people who are having it are being hurt by it. 

Also learning to spell fluoride right would be a start.  Maybe that is why you come up with such bad results!



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The Script
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August 01, 2011, 05:49:58 AM
 #22

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Before too long though, and it is quicker than many of you think, they will start to replace skilled labor.. you can cry "change with the times" all you want, it just shows your ignorance on what is coming. We are no longer looking for a better machine than man, but a better mind. Have fun competing with that.

You can call me ignorant all you want, but you're not learning from history. How many jobs today didn't exist AT ALL before the industrial revolution?  What is ignorant is not thinking the same thing will happen from the information revolution, the robotic revolution, the nanotech revolution, etc etc.

Maybe it's just because I'm a programmer, but I don't fear automation. I create automation every day.  Automation is not a bad thing, it's a very very good thing.  The only way automation would be bad is if there was a limited amount of "work" that needed to be done. But that is like thinking there is a limited amount of knowledge to discover, or a limited amount of wealth to earn. But that is false, it is not a zero-sum game.

Learn to reach for the stars, for pete's sake.

Or go back to churning your own butter so you at least have a job.

Your choice!

Exactly.  Human desires are limitless.  Labor is the scarcest of resources.  There will be need of robot designers, maintainers, programmers, etc.  The only exception might be if we manage to create artificial intelligence; this would be the same affect as another intelligent species competing with us here on earth.  But if we do create the Singularity we will probably have bigger concerns than losing our jobs.  Wink 

Now where is my butter churn?
nafai
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August 01, 2011, 06:00:44 AM
 #23

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In fact, I challenge anyone to think of a single job that a mixture of software and machinery is fundamentally incapable of. I can't think of any myself.

All forms of artistic/creative endeavor and innovation.  Do you think robots are going to expand the frontiers of science or give us new advances in technology on their own?  Do you think robots are going to invent new styles of games like Civilization, or say Minecraft?  What about the classical stuff like new works of art, music, et al.?  Think robots could be creative enough to come up with innovative music like say, Metallica? (admittedly, they could probably easily create some of the popular crap nowadays without breaking a sweat).  Think robots would make good poets?  (Again I guess it depends on your taste)

People pay money for all kinds of things.  Whatever people will pay money for, that is an opportunity to make money.

Not everyone is going to be into robotic prostitution.


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TheGer
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August 01, 2011, 07:07:08 AM
 #24

Lol I can only laugh at people who go on about scientific "consensus" when such groups have been been to tow the Government Propaganda line to get funding a la Global Warming.

Nice Talking point.  It's been beaten to death though.
bitplane
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August 01, 2011, 07:17:51 AM
 #25

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In fact, I challenge anyone to think of a single job that a mixture of software and machinery is fundamentally incapable of. I can't think of any myself.

All forms of artistic/creative endeavor and innovation.  Do you think robots are going to expand the frontiers of science or give us new advances in technology on their own?  Do you think robots are going to invent new styles of games like Civilization, or say Minecraft?  What about the classical stuff like new works of art, music, et al.?  Think robots could be creative enough to come up with innovative music like say, Metallica? (admittedly, they could probably easily create some of the popular crap nowadays without breaking a sweat).  Think robots would make good poets?  (Again I guess it depends on your taste)

That's only assuming that some magical attribute called "creativity" exists, something that is impossible to describe as a system of symbols and therefore uncomputable. I personally believe that the steps of the creative process can be described using words, which are symbols, therefore it is computable. At the base level I'd say it's just a matter of exploring problem space by starting with a bunch of known ideas and applying old patterns to existing data, finding new problem solving patterns and adding them to your repertoire. I don't see why this couldn't be represented as an algorithm, an automated dumb process that does not require a conscious mind. Science and technology are relatively easy in this regard.

As for the arts, an AI that can write poetry, literature or compose classical music (Metalica is still pop music Wink) would require a model of a human mind. This is a bit harder than just innovating, but I don't see why it would be a fundamentally impossible task. They'd only need models that are accurate enough to fool humans, which has to be relatively easy if you're several thousand times more intelligent than any human who ever lived and know every cultural work ever created in immense detail.
bluefirecorp
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August 01, 2011, 08:11:49 AM
 #26

I honestly hope for a future where there is no need for money. Instead of having to manually do work for a job, there'd be a robotic counter-part to do it.


Just think -- being able to wake up and NOT have anything to do except what YOU want to do?

You like putting together computers, that's fine!
You like playing video games -- that's fine as well.
You like playing sports outside -- more power to you.
You like making food -- share it with others!

All these fun things wouldn't be limited to what you can buy/have access to because it'd be accessible by anyone and everyone.

Of course, this won't happen -- at least outside of my idealistic world set inside of my mind Tongue

~bluefirecorp

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August 01, 2011, 01:38:07 PM
 #27



Maybe it's just because I'm a programmer, but I don't fear automation. I create automation every day.  Automation is not a bad thing, it's a very very good thing.  The only way automation would be bad is if there was a limited amount of "work" that needed to be done. But that is like thinking there is a limited amount of knowledge to discover, or a limited amount of wealth to earn. But that is false, it is not a zero-sum game.


Ok then I know where is your positive attitude coming from, since you are belonging to those 10% who making robots.

But this does not solve the problem of the whole society.

Let's say: For each good programmer, you can replace 9 traditional worker, thus create 9 jobless people.  The problem is, this good programmer seldom have 10 times the income of those 9 people (maximum 4x), thus he never could spend as much as those 9 people added together.

You see? With the increased productivity, the total demand decreased, thus bring the whole GDP down, and drag the whole country into recession, this is unavoidable in today's economic system

To keep the total demand up, even these 9 people lost their job, they still have to spend as before

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August 01, 2011, 02:57:48 PM
 #28



Maybe it's just because I'm a programmer, but I don't fear automation. I create automation every day.  Automation is not a bad thing, it's a very very good thing.  The only way automation would be bad is if there was a limited amount of "work" that needed to be done. But that is like thinking there is a limited amount of knowledge to discover, or a limited amount of wealth to earn. But that is false, it is not a zero-sum game.


Ok then I know where is your positive attitude coming from, since you are belonging to those 10% who making robots.

But this does not solve the problem of the whole society.

Let's say: For each good programmer, you can replace 9 traditional worker, thus create 9 jobless people.  The problem is, this good programmer seldom have 10 times the income of those 9 people (maximum 4x), thus he never could spend as much as those 9 people added together.

You see? With the increased productivity, the total demand decreased, thus bring the whole GDP down, and drag the whole country into recession, this is unavoidable in today's economic system

To keep the total demand up, even these 9 people lost their job, they still have to spend as before


That's your problem. Not technology.

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August 01, 2011, 03:31:29 PM
 #29

Today's ISM data is a good example, while industry continously improve the productivity, the whole manufacturing volume is shrinking due to less and less demand

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August 01, 2011, 11:38:57 PM
 #30

Central Planning and the massive distortions it causes are to blame. Not technology. The high unemployment the US is facing is self inflicted. Some emerging economies are actually facing labor shortages.

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August 02, 2011, 12:49:54 AM
 #31

If robots are really used everywhere, then 90% unemployment isn't deprivation -- it's liberation.

If robots build everything, including themselves, and the only things still requiring human labor are things like art, science, and designing the next generation of robots, then that's the world set free from want. It's almost like having a replicator from Star Trek without the technobabble physics. If robots can do it all, every machine can ultimately be made starting with rocks, air, sea water, and sunlight. Things not directly manufactured (like food, natural fibers, and timber) can at least be tended and harvested by robots in place of farmers, ranchers, and fishers.

Machines are more thermodynamically efficient and less expensive than human labor and human muscles when it comes to performing simple mechanical work. If you need to pump 1000 cubic meters of water up from a mine, it's cheaper to get the energy from coal, uranium, diesel, or even photovoltaic panels for an electric pump than it is to feed a human enough rice to survive while pumping 1000 cubic meters manually. If human brains and hands find their replacements too, there's no reason to hope that displaced workers can find free market employment at a wage sufficient to prevent starvation. If a robot costs 40 cents per widget produced in electricity and replacement parts, and a human costs 60 cents per widget just to feed, then unless the robot capital costs are prohibitively high a rational employer will not choose humans over machines.

It's the phase between now and "machines make everything" that is worrying, because there may be a time when lots of jobs are eliminated but the machines still don't provide all necessities. So, for example, you might have the case of a construction worker who can't get work because construction is dominated by machines and he doesn't have the education for robot technician, but health care and agriculture haven't been fully automated so he still needs an income to get the insulin injections and food he needs to live. If the transition is slow enough many people will suffer pain but the system may survive intact over a long, slow deflationary era. If there are intermediate periods of (e.g.) prolonged 40% unemployment, expect sharp political discontinuities and shocks.

There's also a chance that the transition to a robotic economy is more or less orderly, but the outsize wealth accumulated in the mean time is used to further buttress the transition-period winners against the losers. Picture longer patent terms, broader copyright laws, and whole law enforcement divisions set up just to chase "intellectual property" violations. The only good news about that scenario is that it has historically proven futile. If everyone can copy a car for negligible marginal cost rather like they do with MP3s now, the auto industry will be facing a decline worse than the music publishers did over the past decade, no matter how many laws they buy. And if they try to enforce their ill-gotten laws with violence, the same robots that copy cars can copy weapons too.
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August 02, 2011, 01:51:57 AM
 #32

Jesus, this is so ridiculous. Huh

I bet you think immigrants 'steal' jobs as well?

Not necessary immigrants, just some very low paid chinese workers will put all the US manufactoring job in danger

But my question is regarding the human being, not particular one race/nation, since this happens anywhere in the world


How do you say "They took our jobs!!!" in Chinese?

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/china/2011-07/30/c_131018764.htm

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August 02, 2011, 03:17:58 AM
 #33

If robots are really used everywhere, then 90% unemployment isn't deprivation -- it's liberation.
.
.
.

It's the phase between now and "machines make everything" that is worrying, because there may be a time when lots of jobs are eliminated but the machines still don't provide all necessities. So, for example, you might have the case of a construction worker who can't get work because construction is dominated by machines and he doesn't have the education for robot technician, but health care and agriculture haven't been fully automated so he still needs an income to get the insulin injections and food he needs to live. If the transition is slow enough many people will suffer pain but the system may survive intact over a long, slow deflationary era. If there are intermediate periods of (e.g.) prolonged 40% unemployment, expect sharp political discontinuities and shocks.

This is the key difficulty: Even machine can provide enough necessities to all of the human, they will not be distributed to each one that requires them, without a big change in today's economy/society model. And I strongly doubt that such kind of change could ever happen, since human's nature has not changed that much in the latest 1000 years

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August 02, 2011, 07:34:52 PM
 #34

The people that have all the money and most of the power on this planet are psychopaths.  They don't care about you or your family.  They have no loyalty to any nation.  They control the most advance technology on the planet(shit you don't even know exists).  They've fooled a chemically/psychologically dumbed down population into going along with whatever they want, or just not giving a shit cause American Idle is on.

When they've solidified their plans to the point you are not needed any more, you will be wiped out.

Why would they do this?

Why wouldn't they?

They are:

Egomaniacs
Psychopaths
Rich beyond imagining
Powerful(likely beyond your imagining)
Inhuman in their lack of compassion for other Humans(through centuries on inter-breeding and being raised with twisted values and beliefs)

Is it beyond your comprehension that these people have a plan for the world?

Is it beyond your comprehension that these people wouldn't blink an eye at your death?  At anyone's death but their own?

We see people who run big Pharmacological Companies or Oil Companies, making decisions that destroy lives of thousands or millions, and that is merely out of greed.  Can you imagine what a person like that listed above would do?

What they CAN do with what they have?

For your own protection don't even worry about what they will do or are doing.  Think about what they CAN do with that power, then look around you and watch.  Use a wide andgle lense if you will.  Take a step back, look at things on a global scale.  See who and what these people are connected to.

Make an effort.
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August 02, 2011, 08:39:53 PM
 #35

Jesus, this is so ridiculous. Huh

I bet you think immigrants 'steal' jobs as well?

Not necessary immigrants, just some very low paid chinese workers will put all the US manufactoring job in danger

But my question is regarding the human being, not particular one race/nation, since this happens anywhere in the world


How do you say "They took our jobs!!!" in Chinese?

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/china/2011-07/30/c_131018764.htm



他们拿走我们的工作!

(Ta men na zou wo men de gong zuo.)

Not sure how to make it past tense, though.
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August 02, 2011, 09:02:44 PM
 #36

robots need R&D, programmers, and people to watch and maintain them. they also still have to be marketed, transported, and installed at the businesses/factories they operate in.

i think lower level jobs (unskilled labor) will see losses, but skilled jobs (engineers, programmers, repair techs, etc) will see an increase as robot labor becomes more ubiquitous.

i dont think humans can ever be pulled from the equation in any significant amount.
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August 02, 2011, 09:21:51 PM
 #37

Your logic is severely flawed.  I'm sorry but when robots can manufacture on a massive scale, then you don don't need tons of programmers or engineers as programs and schematics can be implemented worldwide remotely,  or repair techs which can be simply programmed.  When the overlords don't have a use for us, we will be tossed out.

robots need R&D, programmers, and people to watch and maintain them. they also still have to be marketed, transported, and installed at the businesses/factories they operate in.

i think lower level jobs (unskilled labor) will see losses, but skilled jobs (engineers, programmers, repair techs, etc) will see an increase as robot labor becomes more ubiquitous.

i dont think humans can ever be pulled from the equation in any significant amount.
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August 02, 2011, 09:58:06 PM
 #38

  When the overlords don't have a use for us, we will be tossed out.

no offense, but this statement makes me think that there is no way we can have a rational discussion.  i could be wrong, but it reeks of NWO/illuminati talk.
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August 02, 2011, 10:17:07 PM
 #39

Nice use of catch phrases and talking points to derail valid points.  Lol you are a credit......  to your Overlords lol.
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August 02, 2011, 10:19:19 PM
 #40

Nice use of catch phrases and talking points to derail valid points.  Lol you are a credit......  to your Overlords lol.

thank you, you just proved my point.
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