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Author Topic: Is 90% jobless rate possible when robots are used everywhere?  (Read 3809 times)
johnyj
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July 31, 2011, 08:21:23 PM
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If the technology has evolved to such a level that robots took over most of the human jobs in 2050, will most of the human become jobless and only those working for robot companies have a job?

Obviously this day is approaching, the using of computer and software has eliminated countless jobs today, and will continue to do so in a much faster rate, due to the whole IT industry is getting more mature and efficient

I think this has much to do with most of the problems we are having today: High jobless rate, lower social wellfare, government debt, etc...

We definitely need a new finance/economy model which can cope with a computer/automation based society

To be more abstract: How can we deal with the fast increase in productivity but slow and uneven increase in income/demand?

Anyone interested, welcome to give your thoughts! Smiley

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Andris
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July 31, 2011, 08:43:45 PM
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This was actually the logic behind Marx's quote "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need." Eventually, technology allows so much production for so little effort that people who take up maintaining civilization as a hobby are enough.
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July 31, 2011, 08:54:26 PM
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The solution to this problem is already in motion and has been for a long time.  Those at the top are slowly eliminating the useless Eaters(that means us).  Food, Water, Air, Vaccines, Wars.  We are being contaminated down to our very genetic structure to make sure we can no longer breed or rise up against oppression.

This as a side effect takes care of the problem you pose.  In the future there won't be a problem with needing to employ Humans.
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July 31, 2011, 08:58:28 PM
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I don't see any particular evidence that they're aiming for that goal, or even consider such disruption a possibility. You look at the assholes behind say, the recent market crash, and they aren't exactly innovators in any real sense. They just invented loopholes to exploit.
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July 31, 2011, 09:13:12 PM
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Actually, automation allows people to pursue other endeavors they couldn't before.

For example, it is very common today for both adults in a family (man/woman) to work.  That wasn't possible 100 years ago, because somebody had to do the laundry (without a washing machine), cook the food (without a microwave), vacuum the house (without a roomba), etc etc.

Yes, the automobile put a lot of people out of work in the horse-and-buggy industry.  Was that a bad thing?

So is it a bad thing if automobiles are built by robots in fully automated factories?  Only if the people refuse to change with the times and find something more productive to do.

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July 31, 2011, 09:36:59 PM
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Jesus, this is so ridiculous. Huh

I bet you think immigrants 'steal' jobs as well?

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July 31, 2011, 10:09:30 PM
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I was thinking about this a while ago too. It seems like there will still be poverty and large disparities in wealth, even if we were to have a fully automated economy that produces everything that we need with very little effort. There will still be an elite who have all of the high tech weaponry/make the laws and are able to have a monopoly on these fully automated industries.
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July 31, 2011, 10:30:19 PM
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Mercury/Formaldehyde/genetic manipulations in vaccines are destroying us and are readily researchable online.

GMO foods(plants and animals) slowly sterilizing people and displacing natural plants and animals used to feed us.

Flouride and hundreds of other harmful chemicals and biologicals in the water.

Hazardous chemicals released into the Atmosphere daily, disrupting human health and ruining arable soil.

Warfare ofcourse speaks for itself.

Time to put the Big Boy Pants on and take a look around at what's being done to you.

I don't see any particular evidence that they're aiming for that goal, or even consider such disruption a possibility. You look at the assholes behind say, the recent market crash, and they aren't exactly innovators in any real sense. They just invented loopholes to exploit.
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July 31, 2011, 10:39:06 PM
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Jesus, this is so ridiculous. Huh

I bet you think immigrants 'steal' jobs as well?

Not necessary immigrants, just some very low paid chinese workers will put all the US manufactoring job in danger

But my question is regarding the human being, not particular one race/nation, since this happens anywhere in the world

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July 31, 2011, 10:46:03 PM
 #10

Jesus, this is so ridiculous. Huh

I bet you think immigrants 'steal' jobs as well?

Not necessary immigrants, just some market-value chinese workers will put overpaid Americans in danger.

FTFY
johnyj
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July 31, 2011, 11:00:48 PM
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Actually, automation allows people to pursue other endeavors they couldn't before.

For example, it is very common today for both adults in a family (man/woman) to work.  That wasn't possible 100 years ago, because somebody had to do the laundry (without a washing machine), cook the food (without a microwave), vacuum the house (without a roomba), etc etc.

Yes, the automobile put a lot of people out of work in the horse-and-buggy industry.  Was that a bad thing?

So is it a bad thing if automobiles are built by robots in fully automated factories?  Only if the people refuse to change with the times and find something more productive to do.

I like this positive views Smiley

Continuous structure change will constantly put people into new works, with more and more division of the work, more and more new products will be generated, this has been the case during the last several hundred years

But computer/software/robot is a little bit different, they are actually much higher efficient workers with very little paied(electricy), and it works in all the branches in the society, thus put almost everyone in danger, a very fast structure change that can cope with the exploding speed of AI adaptation do not exist today

By the way, new works normally comes from new demand, as more and more people's demand are filled, less and less left. Housing might be the biggest demand for many human, but when everyone already have his own house, what could be the next even bigger demand? An IPAD?

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July 31, 2011, 11:19:30 PM
 #12

Jesus, this is so ridiculous. Huh

I bet you think immigrants 'steal' jobs as well?

Not necessary immigrants, just some market-value chinese workers will put overpaid Americans in danger.

FTFY

US workers can be enough competetiv against chinese workers, but they have no way to be 1/100 competetiv against a robot, you have to rely on AMD cards to do the mining


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August 01, 2011, 12:26:34 AM
 #13

Now, Where have I heard this story before....

Wait, wait, don't tell me...

Oh! I remember now:


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johnyj
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August 01, 2011, 01:22:59 AM
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I was thinking about this a while ago too. It seems like there will still be poverty and large disparities in wealth, even if we were to have a fully automated economy that produces everything that we need with very little effort. There will still be an elite who have all of the high tech weaponry/make the laws and are able to have a monopoly on these fully automated industries.

That means there is a systematic problem, we'd better find where the problem is

I think the purpose of making AI and robots is to free human from reputational labor, thus gain more time to enjoy life and create new things, so even if 90% of people do not have a job, they might have some more meaningful things to do

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August 01, 2011, 01:42:02 AM
 #15

Quote
Now, Where have I heard this story before....

Wait, wait, don't tell me...

he isnt exactly wrong, one of the major drivers of disparity in the US is unskilled labor being replaced by machines or the chinese.

and right now, that is mainly all they are replacing.

Before too long though, and it is quicker than many of you think, they will start to replace skilled labor.. you can cry "change with the times" all you want, it just shows your ignorance on what is coming. We are no longer looking for a better machine than man, but a better mind. Have fun competing with that.

mooo for rent
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August 01, 2011, 01:51:32 AM
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Before too long though, and it is quicker than many of you think, they will start to replace skilled labor.. you can cry "change with the times" all you want, it just shows your ignorance on what is coming. We are no longer looking for a better machine than man, but a better mind. Have fun competing with that.

You can call me ignorant all you want, but you're not learning from history. How many jobs today didn't exist AT ALL before the industrial revolution?  What is ignorant is not thinking the same thing will happen from the information revolution, the robotic revolution, the nanotech revolution, etc etc.

Maybe it's just because I'm a programmer, but I don't fear automation. I create automation every day.  Automation is not a bad thing, it's a very very good thing.  The only way automation would be bad is if there was a limited amount of "work" that needed to be done. But that is like thinking there is a limited amount of knowledge to discover, or a limited amount of wealth to earn. But that is false, it is not a zero-sum game.

Learn to reach for the stars, for pete's sake.

Or go back to churning your own butter so you at least have a job.

Your choice!

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August 01, 2011, 02:24:49 AM
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Mercury/Formaldehyde/genetic manipulations in vaccines are destroying us and are readily researchable online.

Real research shows nothing like that.   There are people that refuse vaccines and they are generally less healthy.  There is a ton of serious research on this issue.  Read it. 

GMO foods(plants and animals) slowly sterilizing people and displacing natural plants and animals used to feed us.

If the goal of those things is to sterilize people, IT IS NOT WORKING.  There is no evidence anywhere higher rates of infertility, only people deciding to have less kids.  We are displacing natural plants and animals but more because we are reckless not because of GMO. 


Flouride and hundreds of other harmful chemicals and biologicals in the water.
Fluoride is well tested, and has been in use since 1945.  There majority of the world does NOT receive fluoridated water.  Are they doing better because of it?  Nope. 

You need more tinfoil dude.

Hazardous chemicals released into the Atmosphere daily, disrupting human health and ruining arable soil.

This is the only statement that you have made that is correct. 

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August 01, 2011, 03:46:22 AM
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Actually, automation allows people to pursue other endeavors they couldn't before.
Once we automate thinking there will be very few things left for humans to do. Aside from moving matter from one place to another, people are essentially employed for the sophisticated pattern recognition systems that human brains are good at. Once software is good enough and computers are fast enough, we're useless. In fact, I challenge anyone to think of a single job that a mixture of software and machinery is fundamentally incapable of. I can't think of any myself.

So in order to survive I think we'll need to completely redefine ideas of utility, the experience of simply living must be held higher than capitalist ideas of usefulness or profitability. Being neither wealthy or powerful, I think it's safe to assume that this change come be too late for the vast majority of us.

Whoever survives will have to reform ideas of progress too, idea-space is infinite; we could burn more matter and energy than the solar system has without even scraping the surface of what things and ideas are possible. Hell, we could waste all the energy in the universe just hashing bitcoin blocks!
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August 01, 2011, 03:52:17 AM
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Mercury - How Mercury Causes Neurodegeneration (Brain Damage)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VImCpWzXJ_w

Formaldehyde - Material Safety Data Sheet(MSDS): See harmful effects

http://www.solutions.ca/WHMIS/docs/msds.pdf

Vaccines - Look up Recombinant Vaccine or DNA Vaccine

http://virology-online.com/general/typesofvaccines.htm

______

Infertility - Effects of GMO on Fertility

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1085060/Why-eating-GM-food-lower-fertility.html

and

http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&q=effects+of+gmo+on+fertility&oq=effects+of+gmo+on+fertility&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=18896l23482l0l23667l27l26l0l10l4l0l324l3157l0.8.7.1l16l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=80339b21fff5d4aa&biw=1902&bih=881

Infertility - Effects of Bisphenol A (BPA) on Fertility

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/elaine-shannon/yale-scientists-discover_b_221518.html

Infertility - Cell Phones damage to Sperm DNA

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2011/07/11/cell-phones-cancer-and-infertility/

Infertility - Vaccine use to curb Fertility

http://www.oldthinkernews.com/?p=27

Nice Video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_-kvmaCRYk&feature=player_embedded

_______

Flouride: God there's so much information on the harmful effects of Flouride it's sick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3y8uwtxrHo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hW0_UMtsb4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NFOnQQMnx4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v_fzNyg95o&feature=related

Seriously dude pull your head out of your bum, you couldn't even be bothered to research anything of what I said before you blathered on with that garbage you wrote.

Mercury/Formaldehyde/genetic manipulations in vaccines are destroying us and are readily researchable online.

Real research shows nothing like that.   There are people that refuse vaccines and they are generally less healthy.  There is a ton of serious research on this issue.  Read it. 

GMO foods(plants and animals) slowly sterilizing people and displacing natural plants and animals used to feed us.

If the goal of those things is to sterilize people, IT IS NOT WORKING.  There is no evidence anywhere higher rates of infertility, only people deciding to have less kids.  We are displacing natural plants and animals but more because we are reckless not because of GMO. 


Flouride and hundreds of other harmful chemicals and biologicals in the water.
Fluoride is well tested, and has been in use since 1945.  There majority of the world does NOT receive fluoridated water.  Are they doing better because of it?  Nope. 

You need more tinfoil dude.

Hazardous chemicals released into the Atmosphere daily, disrupting human health and ruining arable soil.

This is the only statement that you have made that is correct. 
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August 01, 2011, 04:11:16 AM
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Seriously dude pull your head out of your bum, you couldn't even be bothered to research anything of what I said before you blathered on with that garbage you wrote.
When propping up an argument you should at least link to papers that have been cited by scientists who are respected in their fields, not YouTube videos and Daily Mail articles. If you buy into the whole mercury in vaccines causing autism thing then you're going against the consensus of the worldwide scientific community, thus we demand extraordinary evidence.

In the words of Dawkins: By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out.
 
Or in other words, stop believing every piece of shit you stumble across on the Internet.
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