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Author Topic: Mike Hearn, Foundation's Law & Policy Chair, is pushing blacklists right now  (Read 83651 times)
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November 15, 2013, 03:03:03 PM
 #301

I'm guessing not many of you have dealt with regulators before.

The magical foundation has brainwashed you too. Do you also believe that it is the people in foundation that are directing the future of bitcoin ?
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November 15, 2013, 03:18:08 PM
 #302

You guys give the foundation way too much credit and way too much power. The bitcoin protocol succeeds because it is based on distributed consensus. The minors control the protocol. Collusion, gaming the mining process or a large pool with excessive hash power are far greater concerns that one Dev's theoretical and very relevant discussion.

The foundation gave vess visibility and credibility (but it couldn't help him become a better businessman). It gave Gavin a salary. And it gave the community a fabulous conference that certainly supported bitcoin's wider visibility.

Jon Matonis has publicly stated his vision and mission for the foundation under his leadership. Let's see how that plays out.

Monday's hearing will be live stream. I suggest you all watch.

http://www.hsgac.senate.gov/hearings/beyond-silk-road-potential-risks-threats-and-promises-of-virtual-currencies
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November 15, 2013, 03:18:44 PM
 #303

What other measure would you guys suggest to meet existing legal requirements? Trying to convince lawmakers that bitcoin should be anonymously traded is an absolute non-starter. If that is the foundation's opinion then bitcoin may be declared illegal and the tracking of coins will move to law enforcement. So, what are our other options?

NOTHING. Mikes Proposed change is unacceptable.
The problem is doing nothing is unacceptable to any government.
Then any (such) government is unacceptable to us.

Times change, governments will have to either adapt, die or be ignored by the population until they accept the inevitable.

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November 15, 2013, 03:19:32 PM
 #304

This idea has the smell of U.S. gun control laws that have the effect of restricting law-abiding citizens while doing nothing to curtail criminals.

The baddies will always find ways around controls.  It's the average Joe who suffers.

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November 15, 2013, 03:22:33 PM
 #305

What other measure would you guys suggest to meet existing legal requirements?

None. Existing legal requirements, and the power interests they serve, are the problem. Their absence or irrelevance is the goal.

Quote
Trying to convince lawmakers that bitcoin should be anonymously traded is an absolute non-starter.

Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies like it are an existential threat to lawmakers and the power interests they serve. Trying to convince them of anything is futile, and akin to attempting to bargain with the slavemaster while you're under the lash, when what you should be doing is everything in your power to escape the last and the slavemaster.

+1

bitcoin is humanities chance to free ourselves from the central banks. bargaining with them is bowing to their power. tell them to shove their kyc/aml up their ass
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November 15, 2013, 03:42:50 PM
 #306

...tell them to shove their kyc/aml up their ass
Yeah, that should work.

You guys seem to think regulation is some kind of option. It is not. There will be regulation no matter how you feel about it. If you feel that destroys bitcoin, then sell yours to a grown up.

The gospel according to Satoshi - https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
Free bitcoin in ? - Stay tuned for this years Bitcoin hunt!
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November 15, 2013, 03:44:48 PM
 #307

I went to register as a bitcoin foundation member after someone suggested that was a good way to voice concerns about the foundation.  

However it seems more like a way to pay their wages rather than have some sort of say.  

If bitcoin becomes entirely regulated, I fail to see what it really offers over anything that existed before it.  Slightly quicker transactions and convenience than western union is not really what this is all about.
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November 15, 2013, 03:47:34 PM
 #308

Start your own foundation or organization.

It is very easy to anonymously post here.

Come out from the shadows and take a stand if you feel so strongly about it.

 
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November 15, 2013, 03:50:40 PM
 #309

...tell them to shove their kyc/aml up their ass
Yeah, that should work.

You guys seem to think regulation is some kind of option. It is not. There will be regulation no matter how you feel about it. If you feel that destroys bitcoin, then sell yours to a grown up.

you say grown up i say slave
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November 15, 2013, 03:53:20 PM
 #310

...tell them to shove their kyc/aml up their ass
Yeah, that should work.

You guys seem to think regulation is some kind of option. It is not. There will be regulation no matter how you feel about it. If you feel that destroys bitcoin, then sell yours to a grown up.

You are doing a great job of showing people why they should stop supporting the Foundation.  Keep posting!

Disobey the Thought Police.  Resist Totalitarian Humanism.
http://attackthesystem.com/?s=totalitarian+humanism
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November 15, 2013, 04:06:52 PM
 #311

Start your own foundation or organization.
 

It seems this is regularly thrown at anyone who criticises the foundation, apparently in the belief it's impossible someone could do just that.  Not only is it a poor and defensive line of argument, it's also an increasingly likely outcome. 

If the US bitcoin foundation continues down its path of cosying up to politicians and bankers while removing core aspects of bitcoin, that is exactly what will happen.  I can't imagine it being particularly pretty if it does though.
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November 15, 2013, 04:07:25 PM
 #312

Quote
You guys seem to think regulation is some kind of option. It is not. There will be regulation no matter how you feel about it. If you feel that destroys bitcoin, then sell yours to a grown up.

idiot

tell me how bittorrent is regulated, mr know it all

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November 15, 2013, 04:13:18 PM
 #313

What other measure would you guys suggest to meet existing legal requirements? Trying to convince lawmakers that bitcoin should be anonymously traded is an absolute non-starter. If that is the foundation's opinion then bitcoin may be declared illegal and the tracking of coins will move to law enforcement. So, what are our other options?

I'm living in the EU. Why should I meet with any US legal requirements? What you guys planning to give up next?
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November 15, 2013, 04:21:42 PM
Last edit: November 20, 2013, 11:59:54 PM by Maged
 #314

Again you are giving the foundation too much power.


Mod note: Discussion about the tracking pixel that BCB used in this post can be found here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=341146.0
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November 15, 2013, 04:41:00 PM
 #315

In my heart I just dont believe we can regulate it, because once those wheels start turning with registering addresses to peoples names and certain stolen coins becoming tainted and blacklisted, its a straight shot down all the way to where the US Govt has total control over our coins and how we spend them. Thats ultimately what this is all about, control, they want it because otherwise its too big a threat.

Bitcoin cant be regulated if it is to be successful. It has to be kept out of the hands of those who want total control. Its just to powerful to give the US Gov one inch of power over it, because it will rapidly become an unbridgeable mile of centralization.

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November 15, 2013, 05:14:45 PM
 #316

Start your own foundation or organization.
 

It seems this is regularly thrown at anyone who criticises the foundation, apparently in the belief it's impossible someone could do just that.  Not only is it a poor and defensive line of argument, it's also an increasingly likely outcome.  

If the US bitcoin foundation continues down its path of cosying up to politicians and bankers while removing core aspects of bitcoin, that is exactly what will happen.  I can't imagine it being particularly pretty if it does though.

BTW there are serious, active negotiation efforts underway to significantly reform the Foundation structure and excessive US influence.  If those efforts fail, it is a certainty that a decentralized alliance will emerge as a viable alternative.  Any public move from the current Foundation in support of "validation" or "tainting" will accelerate the current schism and isolate the USA from the rest of the world.  Read between the lines of this op-ed by Aaron Koenig:

http://bitcoinmagazine.com/7637/how-to-decentralise-the-bitcoin-foundation/
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November 15, 2013, 05:24:29 PM
 #317

Quote
You guys seem to think regulation is some kind of option. It is not. There will be regulation no matter how you feel about it. If you feel that destroys bitcoin, then sell yours to a grown up.

idiot

tell me how bittorrent is regulated, mr know it all

It must be because I'm an idiot, but I fail to see what bittorrent has to do with anything? It is a tool for downloading. Why would that garner financial regulation?

The gospel according to Satoshi - https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
Free bitcoin in ? - Stay tuned for this years Bitcoin hunt!
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November 15, 2013, 05:28:13 PM
 #318

If they start blacklisting coins in the US, everyone around world will still accept it, so they would need to blacklist more and more tainted coins until they have less than 1% of "clean" coins in circulation.

Also we will see many bootleg businesses exchanging "clean" coins for 110% of "dirty" coins for those who need to spend it in the US.
The same shit will happen as it was during Prohibition of 1920s.

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November 15, 2013, 05:33:48 PM
 #319

Quote
You guys seem to think regulation is some kind of option. It is not. There will be regulation no matter how you feel about it. If you feel that destroys bitcoin, then sell yours to a grown up.

idiot

tell me how bittorrent is regulated, mr know it all

It must be because I'm an idiot, but I fail to see what bittorrent has to do with anything? It is a tool for downloading. Why would that garner financial regulation?

Well , he's comparing thepiratebay with bitcoin , so If i were to guess , you're not the idiot Cheesy

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justusranvier
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November 15, 2013, 05:35:43 PM
 #320

You guys seem to think regulation is some kind of option. It is not. There will be regulation no matter how you feel about it. If you feel that destroys bitcoin, then sell yours to a grown up.
Of course regulation is going to happen.

That's why we should work to nullify it via code - design our systems to be immune to regulatory attack just like the filesharing space did successfully.
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