DZ MC: Round 5-6, KnC Jupiters. Please move ?s and discussions here.

[floatyfish]

Yes, please sell one.

One share R5

[philipma1957]

We now have R19 Neptune set up by request from our co-op.

However, I can't believe the prices that people are actually *still* paying on ebay for these:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_from=R40&_nkw=knc+jupiter&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc

What's the general consensus on this? Even w/ ebay's awful fees, we'd still all stand to gain by selling soon, if that's what our majority want. A sale at this price is likely to be well over what the unit will generate (unless BTC prices continue to skyrocket).

If so: let me know as I need to go get my PayPal acct. out of limited status (they're not happy when you do a CC chargeback on BFL Jallys outside PayPal's 45 day refund window). That or we'll sell it thru Thomas's or Philip's account, if he's game.

Starting a vote. Please vote and tell your friends and tell other R5-6 co-op members to vote if you'd like to influence this vote.

Also: please follow up with a PM or public vote, including your number of share votes. We'll hold voting thru Saturday evening. Hopefully everyone will have stopped by before then.

Please also feel free to discuss the pros vs. cons of this early sale.

Thanks!

  Sell it  just the one I have an offer from ebay 50 dollar max in fees.     let me get back with my ebay offer info.




Okay  here goes:











Seller Special

save up to $200 on final value fees

november 25 - december 4

Activate Offer

Please note: Invited sellers must activate the Promotion by selecting "Activate offer" in the invitation email or on the Promotion landing page. Items listed prior to a seller activating the Promotion will not be eligible for the Promotional Rate.

What is the Promotion?
Invited sellers ("sellers") who activate the offer and then list in the fixed price, auction-style, or auction-style with Buy It Now format pursuant to the terms and conditions set forth herein will pay maximum final value fees of $50 ("Promotion") for up to 500,000 listings created during the Promotion Period as defined below. Please note: Each listing that sells will count as 2 listings (1 towards final value fee, 1 towards final value fee on shipping costs); therefore the My eBay Promotions Offers module will display 1,000,000 as the maximum amount of listings available to you in this Promotion.
Who's eligible?
This Promotion is available by invitation only. Store subscribers that qualify for participation will have received an email and/or a message in My eBay. The Promotion is then activated with the seller's qualifying eBay User ID after the seller activates the Promotion from the invitation email or on the Promotion landing page. The Promotion is for invited Stores subscribers only and is not transferable.
When is it?
This Promotion will begin on Monday, November 25, 2013, at 00:00:01 PT (12:00AM plus one second), and will end on Wednesday, December 4, 2013, at 23:59:59 PT (11:59PM plus 59 seconds), for listings on www.ebay.com (the "Promotion Period").
How do I get the Promotional Rate?
Sellers that have been invited to participate in the Promotion will receive the Promotional Rate after they activate the Promotion from the invitation email or the Promotion landing page, and then list items fixed price, auction-style, or auction-style with Buy It Now through the Sell Your Item form, eBay Seller Tools, eBay mobile applications, and most third-party tools.


What are the fees?
Sellers will pay a maximum of $50 on the final value fees for up to 500,000 items listed during the Promotion Period. Final value fees will be applied to the total amount of the sale including the cost of the item, shipping, and any other fees a seller may charge—excluding any sales tax. Note that existing final value fees rates still apply, but the maximum final value fees have been reduced to $50.
Summary of Restrictions & Exclusions
Please take time to read the full terms for all the details.
Sellers can list a maximum of 500,000 items as part of this Promotion on the US site, www.ebay.com, or with an eBay mobile application for iPhone, iPad, Android, Windows Phone, or Blackberry in the US. Please note: Each listing that sells will count as 2 listings (1 towards final value fee, 1 towards final value fee on shipping costs); therefore the My eBay Promotions Offers module will display 1,000,000 as the maximum amount of listings available to you in this Promotion.
This Promotion is for invited Stores subscribers only. If at any time a seller cancels their Stores subscription during the Promotion Period, the seller may no longer be eligible to receive the Promotional Rate.
This Promotion does not apply to the following: Good 'Til Cancelled durations, eBay Motors Passenger Vehicles, Motorcycles, Boats, Power Sports, Other Vehicles, Motors Local Market, Real Estate, and Classified Ad listings. The following categories are excluded: Real Estate (10542), Books (267), DVDs & Movies (11232), Music (11233), Video Games (139973), Heavy Equipment (177641), Concession Trailers & Carts (67145), Imaging & Aesthetics Equipment (92036), and Commercial Printing Presses (26247).
Fees for insertion fees and optional features (such as Reserve Price, Subtitle, Gallery Plus, listing in 2 categories, etc.) will still apply.
Only sellers whose accounts meet eBay's minimum seller performance standards are eligible. Please sign in to My eBay and view your Seller Dashboard to verify whether your account is currently meeting the standards. If you have received fewer than 10 detailed seller ratings from buyers, this information will not appear in My eBay; however, you will receive email notification if your account falls below the minimum performance standards. Find out more about seller performance standards.
All existing selling limits on your account (as well as category and item limits) still apply, and may exclude and prevent you from creating the maximum number of listings in this Promotion.
All listings must comply with eBay policies, including eBay's Duplicate Listing policy that allows for the removal of duplicate auction-style listings.
The Promotional Rate does not apply to listings with a start date prior to Monday, November 25, 2013, including those listings revised during the Promotion Period. Additionally, the Promotional Rate will not apply to listings scheduled to start after the Promotion Period. Listings created prior to Monday, November 25, 2013 but after a seller activates the promotion, which are scheduled to start during the Promotion Period, will be eligible to receive the Promotional Rate.

Please note: The final value fees discount will be reflected in the "View Account Status" section in My eBay as well as in your next invoice.

[Ashitank]

Who can vote in this Poll , any one who is not part of this group buy , doesn't make any sense this poll in this form.

[thomas_s]

Who can vote in this Poll , any one who is not part of this group buy , doesn't make any sense this poll in this form.

You have to vote either publicly or in a PM to DZ, the poll is just to show a general what should we do but is not really viewed.

[philipma1957]

makes sense .  now if I list it .  we need to figure out a way to prevent charge backs.  I would be honest  to say I love the sell it idea but we may be better off selling it right here on this site.


look at this auction right here.  

 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=344948.0


 they got 4.75 btc for a 180gh machine..    no one knows if the machine is good.


  we have a 550gh working machine


 if we got 3x that it would be 14.25btc for a machine  no chargebacks.  


 the price when that machine sold was 800 usd btc is now 936.


   I would think someone would buy this at more then 10 btc in an auction easy.

  we could set the first bid at 8 btc  that is break even price .      so we would have paid 0 for the shares.  and all dividends are your profit.

[Thyatis]

sell

[philipma1957]

in thinking more we could auction off both machines set a minimum at 8btc run the model like this auction


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=344948.0    if we got 10btc for each machine  which is possible..  


 that is about 20btc at 950 usd or 19000.  plus all the dividends.  

and bob could still host to the winner of the auction until either the winner came to pick it up had it shipped off or told bob keep hosting.


selling 2 machines at auction on this site could net  us 19.5k     or 97.50 usd a share we paid in 79 usd a share IIRC.


  not counting all the btc  we already got plus the btc due to us.  on the 30th of nov.  (about 11btc for the 2 buys and growing)

  if the auctions did well we may get 12 or 13 btc for each one  that is 25btc  and 11btc for the dividends = 36btc or near 36000  across both buys comes to 180 usd a share.

plus whatever we got on the oct 15 oct 30 nov 15 payments.  

My dad was a compulsive gambler   he bet all he had all the time.  He used to tell me  whenever you have a chance to have a certain winner always do it.
 

   The idea of converting this buy into close to 36000 usd   with the sale of the 2 machines and the upcoming dividends really appeals to me. Quite a bit.
I already cashed all payments as they came so at this point in time for every 100 in I got 102 back.

If the sales above worked I would clear  about 3420 usd. from it.  I have already cashed for 1522 usd   


so that would mean all my income on this = 4942   I paid in 1482  .    that is a good deal.

[DyslexicZombei]

If you'd like to officially vote for this, please vote publicly or send a PM to thomas_s., -Redacted-, or myself, with the number of shares you own.

For example, via PM:

Subject: R5/R6 vote

Yes, please sell
3 shares R5, 3 shares R6

or publicly:

Keep Mining
3 shares R5, 3 shares R6

We need the voting equivalent of 101 R5/R6 GB shares (out of 200) to sell a Jupiter.

[Ashitank]

Sell , R5 11 shares.

[philipma1957]

 sell I have 19 share 10 in r5 and 9 in r6 or

maybe 9 in r5 and 10 in r6      but either way I have 19 shares combined.

  My 1 condition is I would like to try an auction here with BTC only and a minimum bid  say 8tc which is about 8k. this really stops all charge back issues.   Based on the lack of gear and our coop's rep We should get  8btc easy much more base on this auction

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=344948.0

[clintar]

Yes, please sell
2 shares R6

[clintar]

Can messages be sent to everyone, so they know about this? I didn't know until i was wondering about dividends.

[philipma1957]

 as a price point  ant miner is selling a non auction right here


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=348747.0   

they ask 4.25 BTC for a 180 gh machine.   this is a flat price.   seems to me we could list our 1 for 11 BTC  it would be a bargain compared to the 180 gh x 3 = 12.75  for 540 gh for unproved tech.

 while we would be 11 BTC for 550gh proven tech.

[Miramyn]

We now have R19 Neptune set up by request from our co-op.

However, I can't believe the prices that people are actually *still* paying on ebay for these:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_from=R40&_nkw=knc+jupiter&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc

What's the general consensus on this? Even w/ ebay's awful fees, we'd still all stand to gain by selling soon, if that's what our majority want. A sale at this price is likely to be well over what the unit will generate (unless BTC prices continue to skyrocket).

If so: let me know as I need to go get my PayPal acct. out of limited status (they're not happy when you do a CC chargeback on BFL Jallys outside PayPal's 45 day refund window). That or we'll sell it thru Thomas's or Philip's account, if he's game.

Starting a vote. Please vote and tell your friends and tell other R5-6 co-op members to vote if you'd like to influence this vote.

Also: please follow up with a PM or public vote, including your number of share votes. We'll hold voting thru Saturday evening. Hopefully everyone will have stopped by before then.

Please also feel free to discuss the pros vs. cons of this early sale.

Thanks!

How about selling one (with a starting price +$25k) and keeping the other, distributing hashrate and proceeds between both R5 & R6?

Let's take a minute here to define EXACTLY what we are talking about here otherwise a vote is meaningless.
When I first read this thread and voted the above quotes were what I based my vote on,

But with this as an option

as a price point  ant miner is selling a non auction right here


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=348747.0   

they ask 4.25 BTC for a 180 gh machine.   this is a flat price.   seems to me we could list our 1 for 11 BTC  it would be a bargain compared to the 180 gh x 3 = 12.75  for 540 gh for unproved tech.

 while we would be 11 BTC for 550gh proven tech.

I would probably change my vote. Starting at 20 or 25K but then considering 11btc (11K) is half of what I voted on.

In order to make this valid I believe we need to set a price that we sell at, anything less than that and we keep hashing.

Its hard to vote when the target is changing by 50% or more

[thomas_s]

A vote email was sent out, please voice your concerns about prices here.

[wontons]

If we ebay this, how would funds be distributed?  And how do you protect yourself against chargebacks?

I'm FOR selling as long as it's ridiculously in our favor (like ebay).  

Selling for 11BTC isn't really in our favor.  That's only .055 btc payout per share and we're still .24/share in the red.

As it stands now, I'm holding on my 4 R6 votes until we get more details.

[thomas_s]

If we ebay this, how would funds be distributed?  And how do you protect yourself against chargebacks?

I'm FOR selling as long as it's ridiculously in our favor (like ebay).  

Selling for 11BTC isn't really in our favor.  That's only .055 btc payout per share and we're still .24/share in the red.

USD would be converted to BTC at current exchange rate at time of funds hitting the bank account, to prevent chargebacks the only thing that can be done would be requiring signature confirmation on delivery.

[DickMS]

OK - sounds like we have a short-term opportunity (reduced selling fees) that makes this an even better possibility. So we are comparing selling a Jupiter (two workers in R6, total about 550-600GH/s) that is producing ~1 BTC every 2 days, for ~$20K. If $/BTC rises at approximately the Difficulty rise, it means that we would lose any income past the next 40 days, roughly. Correspondingly, we would capture (eliminate the uncertainty) effectively the next 40 days of income all at once.

Assuming this is a reasonably accurate description of the circumstances, I vote my 37 shares to sell.

Please, anyone, point out any misunderstandings or bad assumptions!

--DickMS

P.S. Does anyone know why the Saturn is offline?

[unknown.usr]

I didn't get an email about this, but I am not complaining.  I put in my 1 share vote as go for it. 

[philipma1957]

as I see it ebay is risky. while I have the 50 max cap on the fees Which is nice . I could be on the hook for 20k on a charge back .  

 an ebay listing would need to be inventive to protect the seller.
  btc is a must transferred to our group btc address and give the goods.  the charge back risk is very high.   If this sold on ebay at 15k

 and everything tanks not good in a month.


read this listing


http://www.ebay.com/itm/KNC-Kncminer-Jupiter-Bitcoin-Miner-550-GH-s-in-Hand-USA-Ships-FedEx-/291022844481?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43c2503241

If I listed this way and it goes to 16k and 1 btc is 1000 usd we get 16 coins.   if he puts the 16 BTC in the account as directed. and the coop ships it to him.

I am not so sure if he wants to fuck me in 30 days that he can't.  My ebay business has been around a long time I am not so sure I want to put it at risk. for 16BTC vs 11 BTC    since I only get about 10 percent of the sale. I have 19 of the 200 shares.

so of the extra  4 or 5 BTC on ebay .  I would see an extra 400 or 500 bucks.  I do a lot of sales on ebay.  I have a shitload of accounts that could be attacked on a chargeback.

BUT  an auction on this site I like start it at 8btc for 1 machine .  it should go to 10-12 btc. no return risk  and we still have the other machine to mine with.
my thoughts are this is a better way to sell.



       It also means we will be half right and half wrong. 

What I mean by this is either selling both machines or keeping both machines maxes our gain or loss.   an all or nothing concept.

  while keeping one and selling one averages the gain or loss.