Amazon fills patent to track Bitcoin users

[Beefcake]

They can't do that because Bitcoin is totally anonymous.  It said so on a netflix documentary.

[squatz1]

While this is something that is sad to see, it was bound to happen at some point. Private companies see the ability to make some money, with the resources they already have (Amazon Web Services) and they seize the opportunity. But with private companies pushing to do this the community will get stronger with anonymity, so we will evolve. to fill what they throw at us.

[arienna23]

Not good for bitcoin anonymity. We better not pay on amazon with crypto.

The Amazon platform, by contrast, would be selling individuals' data directly to buyers. These parties could include advertisers and, following language in the patent itself, "Government" and "law enforcement" agencies; telecommunications providers; and others.

This kind of defies the most important feature of bitcoin that is anonymity.

[redhondaxrm125]

Looks like Jeff Bezos wants to get involved in Bitcoin... the wrong way:

Amazon filed a patent to de-anonymize Bitcoin transactions and sell the data to law enforcement

One example is a data stream that publishes or includes global bitcoin transactions (or any crypto currency transaction). These transactions are completely visible to each participant in the network. The raw transaction data may have little meaning to a customer unless the customer has a way to correlate various elements of the stream with other useful data. For example, a group of electronic or internet retailers who accept bitcoin transactions may have a shipping address that may correlate with the bitcoin address. The electronic retailers may combine the shipping address with the bitcoin transaction data to create correlated data and republish the combined data as a combined data stream. A group of telecommunications providers may subscribe downstream to the combined data stream and be able to correlate the IP (Internet Protocol) addresses of the transactions to countries of origin. Government agencies may be able to subscribe downstream and correlate tax transaction data to help identify transaction participants.

Amazon wants to get his nose into the coins of the users, so you can already see how things will work if Amazon ever accepts Bitcoin, they will attempt to track everything and sell your information, just like Facebook.

LOL. Amazon can kiss my ass and eat their products for all I care. Seriously?! Do they even think that there would be anyone dumb enough to be using bitcoins or any other altcoins in their online shop with those kinds of conditions? They must be clearly out of their minds! Here's a middle finger for you amazon bastards. We don't need your services and would not want it even with a 90% off deal. Crypto people ain't that stupid to fall for your puny efforts to take advantage of us.

[allycn]

Looks like Jeff Bezos wants to get involved in Bitcoin... the wrong way:

Amazon filed a patent to de-anonymize Bitcoin transactions and sell the data to law enforcement

One example is a data stream that publishes or includes global bitcoin transactions (or any crypto currency transaction). These transactions are completely visible to each participant in the network. The raw transaction data may have little meaning to a customer unless the customer has a way to correlate various elements of the stream with other useful data. For example, a group of electronic or internet retailers who accept bitcoin transactions may have a shipping address that may correlate with the bitcoin address. The electronic retailers may combine the shipping address with the bitcoin transaction data to create correlated data and republish the combined data as a combined data stream. A group of telecommunications providers may subscribe downstream to the combined data stream and be able to correlate the IP (Internet Protocol) addresses of the transactions to countries of origin. Government agencies may be able to subscribe downstream and correlate tax transaction data to help identify transaction participants.

Amazon wants to get his nose into the coins of the users, so you can already see how things will work if Amazon ever accepts Bitcoin, they will attempt to track everything and sell your information, just like Facebook.

You could always pay from different wallets and then whatever "shipping address with the bitcoin transaction data" they compiled and republish (sold) would be useless.

[Dondisimo]

Guys. I don't really understand what the point of this process is. Why track your customers. After all, this way you can forget about anonymity.

[cellard]

Amazon would gain big profits from selling user's information and behavior to marketers and anyone who needs such data
and they could let people buy it anonymously but not true/pure anonymous as the buyer would hope
in the end they will also sell all the buyer's data to their (buyer) competing companies in the same business sector 

The thing is, it's just impossible to buy anonymously from big retailers like Amazon, they wouldn't be able to deal with the on-chain volume, it would be a disaster, so they would need to resort to the usual third parties like Bitpay and other platforms which by default are compromised.

Then we would have a LN node which may or not be viable anonymously.

Of course big block sizes aren't also the solution.

Basically there's no way around this, so if Amazon said you could buy anonymously, you have to assume they are lying. Anonymity is never possible unless peer to peer, not peer to corporation.

[Mpamaegbu]

However, I suspect the people that actually care about privacy won't use Amazon anyway, and the people that don't care that much about privacy have already had all their private data leaked by Facebook.

Everybody should care about privacy where Bitcoin is concerned, shouldn't they? Of course that is the major reason wallets generate addresses after addresses after each transaction. You don't want moggers/hoodlums/bandits tracing you to your home because of a purchase you made on any shop, not even from Amazon. I think this Amazon technique will backfire. It is an innovation thought in error.

[o_e_l_e_o]

However, I suspect the people that actually care about privacy won't use Amazon anyway, and the people that don't care that much about privacy have already had all their private data leaked by Facebook.

Everybody should care about privacy where Bitcoin is concerned, shouldn't they? Of course that is the major reason wallets generate addresses after addresses after each transaction. You don't want moggers/hoodlums/bandits tracing you to your home because of a purchase you made on any shop, not even from Amazon. I think this Amazon technique will backfire. It is an innovation thought in error.

Of course they should, but many do not. The bitcoin community certainly has a higher-than-average proportion of people that care about privacy at the moment, but as we go more mainstream, that proportion will fall. You only have to look at the huge number of people who are quite happy to share their entire lives with Facebook, Google, Apple, Microsoft, Instragram, Twitter, etc. so long as they can continue to post selfies with plates of food and share cat memes.

Which leads me back to my original point that you quoted.

[cryptohunter]

If you want widespread adoption you can forget about anonymous crypto.

Bitcoin will  remain transparent or be pushed back to the fringes.

Who cares anyway. I would rather btc goes to 100-250k and pay the tax than it gets reduced to the fringes  and goes to 2k

You need anonymous crypto then look to the alts that are designed for this purpose.

I remember the first US hearings on crypto and they said they would NEVER accept anonymous crypto. I don't think they changed their minds.

So you don't get both it seems.

[cellard]

If you want widespread adoption you can forget about anonymous crypto.

Bitcoin will  remain transparent or be pushed back to the fringes.

Who cares anyway. I would rather btc goes to 100-250k and pay the tax than it gets reduced to the fringes  and goes to 2k

You need anonymous crypto then look to the alts that are designed for this purpose.

I remember the first US hearings on crypto and they said they would NEVER accept anonymous crypto. I don't think they changed their minds.

So you don't get both it seems.

It's not incompatible. For peer to peer transactions you can still be anonymous, but businesses are forced by governments to comply with KYC/AML.

Governments cannot inforce KYC/AML at the protocol level, otherwise Bitcoin would be worthless.

We'll have increased amount of privacy in the future with schnorr sigs et all but this doesn't change the fact that businesses and exchanges are forced to comply KYC/AML so again, only p2p transactions can be anonymous, unless you are buying in Silk Road or somewhere else, most likely illegal.

[therealwatcher]

In 2014, Amazon, the popular online store filed a patent for a Streaming Data Marketplace which would give them access to online data streams, analyze and combine them with other data sources, and sell the results as a finished product to  various agencies. It's a big move by Amazon.

[vintages]

If you want widespread adoption you can forget about anonymous crypto.

Bitcoin will  remain transparent or be pushed back to the fringes.

Who cares anyway. I would rather btc goes to 100-250k and pay the tax than it gets reduced to the fringes  and goes to 2k

You need anonymous crypto then look to the alts that are designed for this purpose.

I remember the first US hearings on crypto and they said they would NEVER accept anonymous crypto. I don't think they changed their minds.

So you don't get both it seems.

It's really obvious that this rejection of bitcoin is from the government as a result of the government needs to make it less anonymous. But the truth still remains that the anonymous state of bitcoin is what made people to invest in it at first. I totally agree and want regulations, but the government should know that they can't be in  control of everything. I love Amazon,  but if they will want to sell and track me unnecessarily  then I better find an alternative.  

[aso118]

Looks like Jeff Bezos wants to get involved in Bitcoin... the wrong way:

Amazon filed a patent to de-anonymize Bitcoin transactions and sell the data to law enforcement

One example is a data stream that publishes or includes global bitcoin transactions (or any crypto currency transaction). These transactions are completely visible to each participant in the network. The raw transaction data may have little meaning to a customer unless the customer has a way to correlate various elements of the stream with other useful data. For example, a group of electronic or internet retailers who accept bitcoin transactions may have a shipping address that may correlate with the bitcoin address. The electronic retailers may combine the shipping address with the bitcoin transaction data to create correlated data and republish the combined data as a combined data stream. A group of telecommunications providers may subscribe downstream to the combined data stream and be able to correlate the IP (Internet Protocol) addresses of the transactions to countries of origin. Government agencies may be able to subscribe downstream and correlate tax transaction data to help identify transaction participants.

Amazon wants to get his nose into the coins of the users, so you can already see how things will work if Amazon ever accepts Bitcoin, they will attempt to track everything and sell your information, just like Facebook.

When people start using mixers, coinjoin transaction, hop in and out of exchanges, the amount of infomation which can be gleaned from bitcoin addresses will be minimal. If Amazon manages to scrape some of this information, let them. I hope how they will deal with privacy laws regarding customer information.

[19nataliya12]

The world's largest Internet retailer in terms of profit and market capitalization, Amazon received a patent for technology to create a trading platform for streaming information, which will allow users to make real-time crypto-currency transactions, and government agencies to track them.

Initially, the company filed an application for a patent in September 2014. The application, approved by the patent office on Tuesday, describes a system in which "a data stream can be obtained and further correlated and combined with data from a second source in a combined system" that will simplify the process of information exchange and control for various commercial and public institutions.

According to a document published on April 17, the streaming analytics service will allow developers to create consoles with real-time data updates, detect atypical data and generate warnings, issue recommendations, and take other business and operational decisions with access to up-to-date information. Applications can account for changes in seconds for companies of all sizes. Streaming information can also be stored in several availability zones and at specific time intervals. During this interval, the data will be available for reading, re-addressing, duplicating, or moving to long-term storage.

[squatz1]

Guys. I don't really understand what the point of this process is. Why track your customers. After all, this way you can forget about anonymity.

Why track your customers? Because there is an insane amount of money in selling peoples information online. Advertisers (and goverments) will pay do much in order to try to sell you shit. That’s the world we live in today.

Crazy, eh? Amazons shareholders are happy though

[Wind_FURY]

They can't do that because Bitcoin is totally anonymous.  It said so on a netflix documentary.

Hahaha.

But seriously there are anonymity features being developed that might make Amazon's "patent" useless, like Mimblewimble and Coinjoin. The Lightning Network can also be used as a layer to make you transactions private.

What is more interesting for me is, what is Amazon's agenda? Do they plan to use the patent as leverage against the network?

Plus Jeff Bezos is part of the Pentagon's advisory board. So it might be "for the interest of our national security". Hahaha.

[harbin55]

I think this is likely not true because of the contradiction happen in the sentence. Patents are intangible asset which reserves rights in the intellectual property you have.
You cannot used patent to obtained a tracking device in just bitcoin users.