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Author Topic: GBTC Bitcoin Investment Trust Observer  (Read 256912 times)
iCEBREAKER
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October 18, 2017, 02:11:19 AM
 #1981

It's great Barry found a way to get us GBTC holders to pay for the 10s millions of dollars it takes to get something like GBCH designed/lawyered/approved/implemented/insured. /s

Thanks for the sources and everything -- good post. I'm taking all of this to mean that we'd get shares of the "GBCH" whenever it comes out. The tricky thing about that would seem to be that the only reason that GBTC can even exist is by way of that "accredited investor year wait" loophole. How would regular shareholders even be able to get shares of such a "GBCH" in a reasonable timeframe, if they actually had to wait for a year before any shares would even be available to the general market? I can't imagine that creating another such pink sheet fund with that loophole would be the most expedient, legal way to get the proportional BCH value distributed to shareholders.

Glad you like the post.  You've raised excellent points as well.

My complaint is how much more it costs GBTC holders to create GBCH than it would to simply dump the Bcash on Kraken and/or Bittrex.

Let's avoid an outcome where we pay for the creation of GBCH but Barry gets all the profit and power from running it.

That may not be easy, since Grayscale is making every indication they intend to force GBTC holders to create GBCH for them by pretending It's The Only Way.


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
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October 18, 2017, 03:29:44 AM
 #1982

@Iceman, Sillbert doesn't support Bitcoin cash:






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October 19, 2017, 03:50:01 AM
 #1983

@Iceman, Sillbert doesn't support Bitcoin cash:

Thanks for that.  Good to know Barry's words don't match his actions.  NOTED.

Forcing GBTC holders to use their Bcash windfalls to build out GBCH for Grayscale is perhaps the *most* supportive thing Barry could possibly do for Roger Ver and Jihan's Bcash project.

GBCH will provide an easy path for Barry's bankster buddies to support Bcash miners (hello Bitmain ASICBOOST), so the controversially hard-forked chain may be subsidized with endless amounts of fiat funbux.


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
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MrSunshine
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October 23, 2017, 04:07:09 PM
 #1984

Saw this in the yahoo conversations, not my words, but I am voting no as well.


There's a reason there's been a disconnect between GBTC and bitcoin since the proxy was announced.
If the proxy passes, the disconnect will continue: Bitcoin could double in price in the next month, but GBTC will fall - and fall hard - from the glut of newly-issued discounted shares being dumped into the market. If shareholders vote "no" to the proxy, the stock should return to its previous trading pattern, which tracked bitcoin.

The proxy takes away virtually all shareholder rights because that's the ONLY way Grayscale could ram these horrible plans through. The proxy gives the company the power to make virtually any decision (including issuing newly-issued shares at deep discounts to market) WITHOUT shareholder consent, AND even removes shareholders rights to request a meeting if they're unhappy with a decision. .. The ONLY beneficiaries in all of this is Grayscale, which collects a fat 2% management fee on each newly-issued share AND the insiders who get to purchase the newly-issued shares at steep discounts to market.

Please EVERYONE vote NO to the proxy. The deadline is midnight tonight!
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October 24, 2017, 02:11:28 AM
 #1985

Anyone else here have InteractiveBrokers?

Based on below, I think we will see selling pressure this week, and as funds come back with a price drop, it may flow to GBTC instead?

Can anyone confirm no longer can buy XBTProvider's (listed on nasdaq nordic) bitcoinxb??


Just posted observer thread here:

(quick PSA: don't keep exposure to any exchange or fund product as it leads to a central point of failure)

For some years now worldwide investors have had the option to invest in the tracking of Bitcoin price through XBT Provider's Exchange Traded Note (ETN) listed on Nasdaq Nordic (Sweden/Stockholm). If your broker allows you to by foreign-listed companies you can probably do this.

Their website
https://xbtprovider.com/


Anyone care to share their experience?


Bloomberg ticker: COINXBT ;  https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/COINXBT:SS
InteractiveBrokers in USA uses ticker BITCOINXB

I've heard InteractiveBrokers in USA this week is shutting down trading access to BITCOINXB and all of XBT's products - anyone else want to comment?

This I'm sure has created selling pressure.

Discuss here.


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October 25, 2017, 07:46:30 PM
 #1986

Nothing new, but CNBC just mentioned it again.

"Bitcoin cash and bitcoin gold are alternative versions of bitcoin that split off from the original in August and October, respectively. Bitcoin is also scheduled to split again next month into bitcoin and bitcoin SegWit2x. Investors at the time of a split technically receive the same number of the offshoot coin as their bitcoin holdings, but digital currency exchanges and storage websites have been slow to support the new currencies.
It's not clear whether Bitcoin Investment Trust's sponsor Grayscale Investments will support the bitcoin offshoots. The company's latest press release on bitcoin cash gives no date for a "possible" distribution. Information on other splits was not available on Grayscale's website, and a representative declined to comment, citing federal securities laws."

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/25/wall-street-strategist-tom-lee-recommends-risky-over-the-counter-bitcoin-trust.html
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October 25, 2017, 09:26:49 PM
 #1987

Nothing new, but CNBC just mentioned it again.

"Bitcoin cash and bitcoin gold are alternative versions of bitcoin that split off from the original in August and October, respectively. Bitcoin is also scheduled to split again next month into bitcoin and bitcoin SegWit2x. Investors at the time of a split technically receive the same number of the offshoot coin as their bitcoin holdings, but digital currency exchanges and storage websites have been slow to support the new currencies.
It's not clear whether Bitcoin Investment Trust's sponsor Grayscale Investments will support the bitcoin offshoots. The company's latest press release on bitcoin cash gives no date for a "possible" distribution. Information on other splits was not available on Grayscale's website, and a representative declined to comment, citing federal securities laws."

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/25/wall-street-strategist-tom-lee-recommends-risky-over-the-counter-bitcoin-trust.html

But it is good to see, from the link, at least one wall street analyst is saying buy GBTC as it is only 20% over premium now. Still it is sad that as BTC ascended from $3000 to $6000 GBTC hardly moved.
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October 25, 2017, 09:35:42 PM
 #1988

Does anyone have access to the following report? What he's saying goes against the idea that only people who held GBTC shares at the time of the BCH fork would get a distribution. If that's the case, the value of each current share shouldn't include the BCH value anymore.

Quote
“GBTC at $688 and with 20% NAV premium is an attractive way to gain exposure to bitcoin,” Lee said in the report, noting that the market has underestimated NAV because it has overlooked the $31 worth of bitcoin cash and $22 of bitcoin gold in each GBTC share.

Source: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-25/bitcoin-hyper-bull-lee-says-lone-investment-trust-could-triple
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October 27, 2017, 05:37:12 PM
 #1989

GBTC liquidating their BCC and distributing:
http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/GBTC/news?id=173337

Record date set to Nov 6th. As per the press release anyone holding GBTC as of end of business of this day gets the BCC distribution.

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October 27, 2017, 05:53:29 PM
 #1990

GBTC liquidating their BCC and distributing:
http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/GBTC/news?id=173337

Record date set to Nov 6th.

Complete bullshit. Saw in an earlier post how Interactive Brokers has now blocked US investors from XBT Provider. At least XBT was very clear that the record date for BCC was the day of the fork (like any place that makes sense)! I had a US-based friend who I pushed into selling their GBTC after the BCC fork and getting into XBT and now I feel like shit as they will not only miss out on the BCC distribution for GBTC, but now we can't tell if IB will liquidate their XBT or not.

It just looks to be a trading block, so they should be good keeping funds in for a while (even years possibly), but I'm not sure. XBT was the far better deal than GBTC fee-wise (and in terms of clarity as to how forks will be handled). Anyone know if they can just leave the XBT in IB and never get a forced sale? I find it really funny that IB used to block GBTC and allow XBT trades, but now they allow GBTC trades and block XBT Tongue

Any suggestions for a US-based broker I could recommend that will allow XBT Provider trades now that IB has them blocked? Any suggestions for an alternative to GBTC open to US investors that isn't that weird IRA thing (that wanted like 15%-20% upfront to store the coins and then you're locked into weird ass filings for life)?

 
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October 27, 2017, 06:28:34 PM
 #1991

GBTC liquidating their BCC and distributing:
http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/GBTC/news?id=173337

Record date set to Nov 6th. As per the press release anyone holding GBTC as of end of business of this day gets the BCC distribution.

Sweet, I picked up some more GBTC during the China FUD at $517/share on Sept 14. I was not expecting this bonus gift. Now GBTC may have a minor price run up until Nov. 6th. Always interesting. I guess we will get the same types of distributions from the other forks.
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October 28, 2017, 02:36:05 AM
 #1992

Complete bullshit. Saw in an earlier post how Interactive Brokers has now blocked US investors from XBT Provider. At least XBT was very clear that the record date for BCC was the day of the fork (like any place that makes sense)!

It had been stated that that would be the case with GBTC, too, so it's definitely a surprise.
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October 28, 2017, 02:48:05 AM
 #1993

GBTC liquidating their BCC and distributing:
http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/GBTC/news?id=173337

Record date set to Nov 6th. As per the press release anyone holding GBTC as of end of business of this day gets the BCC distribution.

Sweet, I picked up some more GBTC during the China FUD at $517/share on Sept 14. I was not expecting this bonus gift. Now GBTC may have a minor price run up until Nov. 6th. Always interesting. I guess we will get the same types of distributions from the other forks.

It's weird that someone could potentially buy now, after the fact, and still get distributions from the BCH fork, and potentially the BTG fork. That being said, I would expect the price to follow in line similarly to how other shareholder distributions occur, meaning it'll be built into the price until the record date, so it'll be interesting to see if you really gain anything from buying now.
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October 28, 2017, 02:18:24 PM
 #1994

@Iceman, Sillbert doesn't support Bitcoin cash:

Thanks for that.  Good to know Barry's words don't match his actions.  NOTED.

Forcing GBTC holders to use their Bcash windfalls to build out GBCH for Grayscale is perhaps the *most* supportive thing Barry could possibly do for Roger Ver and Jihan's Bcash project.

GBCH will provide an easy path for Barry's bankster buddies to support Bcash miners (hello Bitmain ASICBOOST), so the controversially hard-forked chain may be subsidized with endless amounts of fiat funbux.

Based on what's happening with the BCH liquidation, it doesn't seem like this is what's going to happen, right?
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October 28, 2017, 09:32:11 PM
 #1995

@Iceman, Sillbert doesn't support Bitcoin cash:

Thanks for that.  Good to know Barry's words don't match his actions.  NOTED.

Forcing GBTC holders to use their Bcash windfalls to build out GBCH for Grayscale is perhaps the *most* supportive thing Barry could possibly do for Roger Ver and Jihan's Bcash project.

GBCH will provide an easy path for Barry's bankster buddies to support Bcash miners (hello Bitmain ASICBOOST), so the controversially hard-forked chain may be subsidized with endless amounts of fiat funbux.

Based on what's happening with the BCH liquidation, it doesn't seem like this is what's going to happen, right?

Not anymore.  They're going back to the original plan: DUMP THE BCASH ASAP.

GBCH Officially #REKT. Grin

Quote
The Agent will thereafter sell the Bitcoin Cash over a period of time, currently not expected to exceed 90 days, and remit the cash proceeds from such sale, net of any administrative and other reasonable expenses incurred by the Agent in connection therewith, to Record Date Shareholders upon completion of the sale. The Agent will announce a remittance date for the remittance of such net cash proceeds once established. Notwithstanding the foregoing, the Agent reserves the right to remit any net cash proceeds from such sale prior to the completion thereof, in more than one remittance.

Based on 1,868,700 shares of the Trust outstanding as of the date hereof and expected to be outstanding as of the Record Date, each share of the Trust will entitle the holder to receive approximately 0.09258535 coins (or units) of Bitcoin Cash, prior to the deduction of any administrative and other reasonable expenses incurred by the Agent related to the eventual sale of the distributed Bitcoin Cash.


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
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October 29, 2017, 11:10:01 AM
 #1996

My back of the envelope calculations show that the Trust will be selling off about 1% of what is the total BCH supply. It should be especially interesting what happens starting next week, given the current BCH pump.
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October 29, 2017, 06:43:42 PM
 #1997

My back of the envelope calculations show that the Trust will be selling off about 1% of what is the total BCH supply. It should be especially interesting what happens starting next week, given the current BCH pump.

I thought this news might cause BCH to spike down in price, and certainly not pump up. In fact I almost sold my BCH (earned from BTC holdings) with that idea in mind.
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November 01, 2017, 04:09:22 PM
 #1998

My back of the envelope calculations show that the Trust will be selling off about 1% of what is the total BCH supply. It should be especially interesting what happens starting next week, given the current BCH pump.

I thought this news might cause BCH to spike down in price, and certainly not pump up. In fact I almost sold my BCH (earned from BTC holdings) with that idea in mind.

It's good that you didn't. Smiley
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November 06, 2017, 08:13:29 PM
 #1999

I'm interested to see if we'll get an 8% correction (additional to whatever movement BTC makes) tomorrow on the GBTC price, due to the BCH being removed from the equation.
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November 06, 2017, 08:45:35 PM
 #2000

My back of the envelope calculations show that the Trust will be selling off about 1% of what is the total BCH supply. It should be especially interesting what happens starting next week, given the current BCH pump.

I wonder where you find a buyer for that quantity of an alt other than the Bitmain crew. It's a big fat pile of money for anyone to cough up. Is it done on exchanges? Is there enough volume?

Similarly I'd love to know how Xapo got rid of theirs.  

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