GBTC Bitcoin Investment Trust Observer

[Cconvert2G36]

Nice catch.

There's an update. What Barry meant was that GBTC could start trading today or tomorrow, not "should."

https://twitter.com/InsideBitcoins/status/593566295658000384

I'm going to trust what the accredited investor guy in this thread says when he estimates 5+ business days, not Barry shooting his mouth off. That means we should expect trading on Monday or later.

Yep. At the speed of paper... tomorrow is the first day I see as really possible, but not probable.

I think "clients have instructions to add shares to their brokerage accts" means several days or a business week. Hang on to your butts, and place dump catching bids in the interim.

[1713523921]

1713523921

[Alley]

Shareholders probly arnt making transfering those shares a top priority. 

[Chef Ramsay]

Make it happen Barry and I'm not talking about Barrack O. At some point soon this SM has to give us a boost.

[NUFCrichard]

Make it happen Barry and I'm not talking about Barrack O. At some point soon this SM has to give us a boost.

It will be interesting to see if it does give the market a boost or not.
I know they are buying way way above market rate, but whether the market catches up with their price, or their price falls down to the market price will be the next important piece of information for us after it goes live.

I think there might be a meeting in the middle, with about $290-300 being re-tested.

[gotmilk_]

http://bravenewcoin.com/news/bitcoin-investment-trust-prepares-for-trading/

[ensurance982]

Make it happen Barry and I'm not talking about Barrack O. At some point soon this SM has to give us a boost.

It will be interesting to see if it does give the market a boost or not.
I know they are buying way way above market rate, but whether the market catches up with their price, or their price falls down to the market price will be the next important piece of information for us after it goes live.

I think there might be a meeting in the middle, with about $290-300 being re-tested.

I guess many people holding shares there may not be willing to sell at current spot prices, because they mostly (if not all) bought at higher prices. If you want to trade price swings, you're better of using one of the regular exchanges!

[ImI]

Make it happen Barry and I'm not talking about Barrack O. At some point soon this SM has to give us a boost.

It will be interesting to see if it does give the market a boost or not.
I know they are buying way way above market rate, but whether the market catches up with their price, or their price falls down to the market price will be the next important piece of information for us after it goes live.

I think there might be a meeting in the middle, with about $290-300 being re-tested.

I guess many people holding shares there may not be willing to sell at current spot prices, because they mostly (if not all) bought at higher prices. If you want to trade price swings, you're better of using one of the regular exchanges!

they could sell and buy instead at coinbase etc. that would 100BTC->150BTC

[ensurance982]

Make it happen Barry and I'm not talking about Barrack O. At some point soon this SM has to give us a boost.

It will be interesting to see if it does give the market a boost or not.
I know they are buying way way above market rate, but whether the market catches up with their price, or their price falls down to the market price will be the next important piece of information for us after it goes live.

I think there might be a meeting in the middle, with about $290-300 being re-tested.

I guess many people holding shares there may not be willing to sell at current spot prices, because they mostly (if not all) bought at higher prices. If you want to trade price swings, you're better of using one of the regular exchanges!

they could sell and buy instead at coinbase etc. that would 100BTC->150BTC

Yeah, that's what some of them just might do, actually. But I guess there's a reason why they invested in GBTC shares, rather than buying the coins directly: They like the type of investment vehicle, with all its disadvantages and advantages. And that's the very reason they may just stay in that vehicle!

[ImI]

Make it happen Barry and I'm not talking about Barrack O. At some point soon this SM has to give us a boost.

It will be interesting to see if it does give the market a boost or not.
I know they are buying way way above market rate, but whether the market catches up with their price, or their price falls down to the market price will be the next important piece of information for us after it goes live.

I think there might be a meeting in the middle, with about $290-300 being re-tested.

I guess many people holding shares there may not be willing to sell at current spot prices, because they mostly (if not all) bought at higher prices. If you want to trade price swings, you're better of using one of the regular exchanges!

they could sell and buy instead at coinbase etc. that would 100BTC->150BTC

Yeah, that's what some of them just might do, actually. But I guess there's a reason why they invested in GBTC shares, rather than buying the coins directly: They like the type of investment vehicle, with all its disadvantages and advantages. And that's the very reason they may just stay in that vehicle!

yes of course there is a reason. nevertheless it depends solely on the BID. if the bid is high enough and the difference therefore big enough sellers will come.

i expect them to ask 400. and i expect those 400 will be paid.

[empowering]

There's an update. What Barry meant was that GBTC could start trading today or tomorrow, not "should."

https://twitter.com/InsideBitcoins/status/593566295658000384

I'm going to trust what the accredited investor guy in this thread says when he estimates 5+ business days, not Barry shooting his mouth off. That means we should expect trading on Monday or later.

Yes, on some monday gbtc will trade .... recloses the one open eye.

Cyclops ?

[bobabouey2]

Make it happen Barry and I'm not talking about Barrack O. At some point soon this SM has to give us a boost.

It will be interesting to see if it does give the market a boost or not.
I know they are buying way way above market rate, but whether the market catches up with their price, or their price falls down to the market price will be the next important piece of information for us after it goes live.

I think there might be a meeting in the middle, with about $290-300 being re-tested.

I guess many people holding shares there may not be willing to sell at current spot prices, because they mostly (if not all) bought at higher prices. If you want to trade price swings, you're better of using one of the regular exchanges!

they could sell and buy instead at coinbase etc. that would 100BTC->150BTC

Yeah, that's what some of them just might do, actually. But I guess there's a reason why they invested in GBTC shares, rather than buying the coins directly: They like the type of investment vehicle, with all its disadvantages and advantages. And that's the very reason they may just stay in that vehicle!

They could sell on OTC and buy again directly from Secondmarket as accredited investors.  Only thing they would lose is the ability to sell on OTC for another year.  Even that is not so bad, since presumably Secondmarket will unsuspend redemptions at some point.

[JorgeStolfi]

presumably Secondmarket will unsuspend redemptions at some point.

Redemptions too used to have an N month maturation period (originally 6, extended to 12?) before they dould be redeemed. Isn't that going to be the case still?

[jehst]

The GBTC shares are en route to the brokerage accounts now. Currently, they are being carried from Grand Central Station in Manhattan to Chinatown on the back of a large tortoise. In Chinatown, the shares will be handed off to a team of sloths who will convey the shares across the Brooklyn Bridge where a manatee is waiting next to the promenade. The shares will be encased in a waterproof binder and attached  to the manatee who will then slowly swim to Dublin, Ireland. There, the shares will be electronically transferred to the brokerage accounts.

[oblox]

The GBTC shares are en route to the brokerage accounts now. Currently, they are being carried from Grand Central Station in Manhattan to Chinatown on the back of a large tortoise. In Chinatown, the shares will be handed off to a team of sloths who will convey the shares across the Brooklyn Bridge where a manatee is waiting next to the promenade. The shares will be encased in a waterproof binder and attached  to the manatee who will then slowly swim to Dublin, Ireland. There, the shares will be electronically transferred to the brokerage accounts.

I don't think you can get much more efficient than that.

[David Rabahy]

They could sell on OTC and buy again directly from Secondmarket as accredited investors.  Only thing they would lose is the ability to sell on OTC for another year.  Even that is not so bad, since presumably Secondmarket will unsuspend redemptions at some point.

As I understand it SecondMarket will not resume redemptions; they only way out is via the OTC; trying to arbitrage with a 12 month cycle would very likely be ineffective.

Since I am truly long-minded, if when I truly have liquidity then I might sell some BIT via the OTC:GBTC and reinvest it at NAV through SecondMarket.

[bobabouey2]

They could sell on OTC and buy again directly from Secondmarket as accredited investors.  Only thing they would lose is the ability to sell on OTC for another year.  Even that is not so bad, since presumably Secondmarket will unsuspend redemptions at some point.

As I understand it SecondMarket will not resume redemptions; they only way out is via the OTC; trying to arbitrage with a 12 month cycle would very likely be ineffective.

Since I am truly long-minded, if when I truly have liquidity then I might sell some BIT via the OTC:GBTC and reinvest it at NAV through SecondMarket.

From the latest filing, they appear to be trying to resume redemptions.  I don't know enough about Reg M to assess whether they are likely to be successful. 

On September 23, 2014, the Distributor received a letter from the staff of the SEC’s Office of
Compliance Inspections and Examinations summarizing the staff’s findings from an onsite review
of the Distributor’s broker-dealer activities conducted in June 2014. Among other things, the staff
stated that it had concluded that the Trust’s redemption program appears to violate Regulation M
under the Securities Exchange Act because redemptions of Shares take place at the same time the
Trust is in the process of creating Shares. The Distributor and the Trust are in discussions with the
staff of the SEC in order to resolve the staff’s concerns, although the Distributor and the Trust
cannot at this time predict the impact such a resolution may have on their respective activities. S

[bobabouey2]

presumably Secondmarket will unsuspend redemptions at some point.

Redemptions too used to have an N month maturation period (originally 6, extended to 12?) before they dould be redeemed. Isn't that going to be the case still?

I don't recall a maturation period for redemptions, but I may have missed it.  From this copy of an earlier factsheet, it seems the early redemptions just had an additional 1.5% fee, although it also notes redemptions were on a "limited basis."

*Redemption of shares will be allowed on a limited basis
as of April 2014 with expectation of qualifying for public
trading of the shares via the OTCQX® under the Alternative
Reporting Standards. Please note that an early redemption
fee of 1.5% will apply if shares are redeemed within a year
of purchase.:

http://bitcointrust.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Fact-Sheet_Mar15.pdf

[jehst]

What exchange(s) does BIT use to price it's BTC for the NAV?

[JorgeStolfi]

I don't recall a maturation period for redemptions, but I may have missed it.  From this copy of an earlier factsheet, it seems the early redemptions just had an additional 1.5% fee, although it also notes redemptions were on a "limited basis."

*Redemption of shares will be allowed on a limited basis
as of April 2014 with expectation of qualifying for public
trading of the shares via the OTCQX® under the Alternative
Reporting Standards. Please note that an early redemption
fee of 1.5% will apply if shares are redeemed within a year
of purchase.:

http://bitcointrust.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Fact-Sheet_Mar15.pdf

That fact sheet is from a month ago.  My recollection is from early 2014, when they had promised an open market (for Q1 2014, IIRC), but OTCQX was not mentioned. 

[JorgeStolfi]

What exchange(s) does BIT use to price it's BTC for the NAV?

The method for computing the NAV is detailed in one of the documents available from the OTCQX page.