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Gatekeeper
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June 07, 2016, 02:06:04 PM |
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Just hit $100  if only the real btc price was the same  |
(1470) <KLYE> But I was far too drunk to fuck a midget
(1470) <KLYE> I will fuck a chicken for 250 btc
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Each block is stacked on top of the previous one. Adding another block to the top makes all lower blocks more difficult to remove: there is more "weight" above each block. A transaction in a block 6 blocks deep (6 confirmations) will be very difficult to remove.
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Asrael999
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June 07, 2016, 02:19:21 PM |
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so this is now a way to buy BTC for $1000? But you get to keep it in a retirement account, which presumably has some tax advantage?
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David Rabahy
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June 08, 2016, 02:24:03 AM |
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so this is now a way to buy BTC for $1000? But you get to keep it in a retirement account, which presumably has some tax advantage?
GBTC may be held in either a non-retirement or retirement account. Holding it in either is just like holding any other asset. That the BITS NAV and the GBTC exchange rate http://grayscale.co/bitcoin-investment-trust/#market-performance are so far out of alignment is interesting. The premium for GBTC is almost certainly due to scarcity. Arbitrage is impossible due to the length of time it takes to cycle through. Make no mistake; buying GBTC is *not* buying BTC. Yes, GBTC will tend to move in the same direction as BTC but it is not fixed to it directly. You cannot convert GBTC into BTC; well, you can but only indirectly, i.e. by selling the GBTC and buying BTC. GBTC has a huge advantage over BTC; it can be bought and sold through a brokerage account. Now that might sound like a disadvantage but if what one wants is a retirement account then using a broker as your custodian is critical. Buying BITS to get the GBTC is potentially lucrative but takes so long that the risk is high a price drop could bite you bad. |
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Alley
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June 12, 2016, 12:50:41 PM |
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I think it might be time for Barry to consider a 1/10 split. Price will over $100 Monday. Kind of pricey for a OTC stock. Make each share a 100th of a bitcoin?
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mmortal03
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June 17, 2016, 03:49:56 PM |
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Will we see GBTC at a 100% premium relative to the spot price soon?  |
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GGALINff
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June 17, 2016, 06:42:47 PM |
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amazing - premium keeps expanding...wonder what the ceiling is
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bitebits
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Flippin' burgers since 1163.
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June 18, 2016, 04:00:09 AM |
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amazing - premium keeps expanding...wonder what the ceiling is
The ceiling + collapse will be when there is a real alternative like an ETF. These will be way more closely connected to the bitcoin spot price, or even drive the 'real' bitcoin price. |
- You can figure out what will happen, not when /Warren Buffett - Pay any Bitcoin address privately with a little help of Monero. |
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mmortal03
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July 12, 2016, 11:36:26 PM |
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sandiman
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July 13, 2016, 09:27:21 AM |
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That's some old news .... Be careful with ETF ... so many story of flawed ETF out there |
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mmortal03
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July 13, 2016, 02:36:19 PM |
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That's some old news .... Be careful with ETF ... so many story of flawed ETF out there It's the resolution to it, came out yesterday. |
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David Rabahy
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July 14, 2016, 06:00:22 PM |
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The fine is pretty small compared to the size of the trust so not a big deal in my mind. What does worry me is the 2% annual fee per http://grayscale.co/bitcoin-investment-trust/. *If* I could sell GBTC and purchase BTC directly in my Roth IRA then I would do it to save the expense. |
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David Rabahy
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July 14, 2016, 08:01:24 PM |
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I'm investigating the Broad Financial approach again.
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bobabouey2
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July 14, 2016, 08:10:57 PM |
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The fine is pretty small compared to the size of the trust so not a big deal in my mind. What does worry me is the 2% annual fee per http://grayscale.co/bitcoin-investment-trust/. *If* I could sell GBTC and purchase BTC directly in my Roth IRA then I would do it to save the expense. Agreed, and the settlement relates to the Reg M issue related to have a redemption program in place for the institutional investors while shares were being issued on the public markets. This issue has been disclosed for a long time, and does not relate to any fundamentals of the trust. Keep us posted if you make progress with Broad Financial. |
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mkc
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July 14, 2016, 09:22:16 PM |
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What is the implication for Bitcoin in general? Is this only because wrong doing in BIT side or SEC is not happy about Bitcoin? I have been watching GBTC for a while, but 70% premium prevent me from pulling the trigger on it. |
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mmortal03
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July 14, 2016, 10:00:44 PM |
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What is the implication for Bitcoin in general? Is this only because wrong doing in BIT side or SEC is not happy about Bitcoin? I have been watching GBTC for a while, but 70% premium prevent me from pulling the trigger on it. Well, they aren't shutting them down, so we can't assume the SEC is unhappy with Bitcoin in general. Let's hope they're fine with it, given the upcoming ETFs looking for approval: http://www.coindesk.com/solidx-bitcoin-trust-filing/ |
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mmortal03
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July 15, 2016, 08:16:12 PM |
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I have some money in ira, but haven't followed gbtc. Is this a good time to get in?
It's hard to say. The GBTC price has been at an 80%+ premium to the Bitcoin price over the past week, but it's tended to be priced at a significant premium for practically its entire existence -- and this only seems to have gradually increased over time -- so I don't know whether this really matters at this point. Due to the way it's designed, it may always sell at a significant premium to the Bitcoin spot, and keep in mind that it's done better that the Bitcoin price over recent periods. Until we get the COIN or XBTC ETFs this may be your easiest, closest exposure to the BTC price with a Roth IRA brokerage account. One thing that's been on my mind is what might happen to the GBTC price once COIN or XBTC are actually approved. Some people have argued elsewhere that once one of them is approved, it could put downward pressure on GBTC's price. It's hard to say just how much of an impact there would actually be, though, and it might depend on how much time we have between the announcement of one of these alternatives and their actual roll out. I, for one, would prefer to be in one of them as compared to GBTC, given that they will be designed to better track the BTC price, so I'd be one of the people wanting to sell GBTC and buy COIN or XBTC. Other people have argued that a COIN or XBTC approval would immediately help the BTC price, which would, at least in the short term, also help the GBTC price, so developing the optimal strategy to play these scenarios is still up for discussion. Given the recent SEC fine that the Bitcoin Investment Trust has paid for past unregulated behavior, I also have to wonder what our options would be if the SEC ever wanted to play hard ball and actually shut GBTC down. Would a forced liquidation of BIT/GBTC's holdings at least get us back the BTC value of our individual shares, or would we end up taking a significant loss? This would be something to consider, given the premium we pay for our shares versus the actual Bitcoin price. |
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Chainsaw
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July 15, 2016, 09:09:14 PM |
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I anticipate GBTC will simply move from having no competitors to having many*. This will simultaneously reduce the premium, while increasing the demand of Bitcoin in general, thus increasing the price. I further speculate that the current premium represents what that future valuation of (Bitcoin price + premium) will be equal to the current GBTC (Bitcoin price + premium), or ~$1200. Maybe it goes from $650/550 to $1100/100. Then finally, once that equilibrium exists, more gains across all Bitcoin investment vehicles, all with a lower relative premium than before. I recently moved from GBTC holdings to a self directed IRA which can hold Bitcoins, through BitcoinIRA ( www.BitcoinIRA.com ) . The premium over spot 5-7% neighborhood as opposed to 50-100%. *Already there are several. GBTC is available to most investors. Self directed IRAs are only available to accredited investors. Already this represents two tiers of friction, or ease of entry. Friction will be maximally reduced when offerings on BATS or NASDAQ allow virtually anyone with access to the stock market the ability to invest. |
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mkc
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July 15, 2016, 10:48:48 PM |
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I anticipate GBTC will simply move from having no competitors to having many*. This will simultaneously reduce the premium, while increasing the demand of Bitcoin in general, thus increasing the price. I further speculate that the current premium represents what that future valuation of (Bitcoin price + premium) will be equal to the current GBTC (Bitcoin price + premium), or ~$1200. Maybe it goes from $650/550 to $1100/100. Then finally, once that equilibrium exists, more gains across all Bitcoin investment vehicles, all with a lower relative premium than before.
I think you nailed it. I was wondering what will happen when xbtc and coin goes online. I totally agree that more competition will compress premium; more ETF will increase demand. The end result through, I suspect you are a little bit over estimated, I will be happy if reach 1k. |
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mmortal03
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July 16, 2016, 03:09:45 AM |
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mmortal03
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July 28, 2016, 05:43:46 PM |
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The GBTC price has been dropping since July 15th, a total of ~$30 per share (meaning ~$300 per bitcoin), which was a few days after the SEC cease and desist. In the same time period, the Bitcoin price has only dropped ~$30. Any theories?
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