[HAVELOCK] (HIF) Havelock Investments Fund

[havelock]

You value your Panamanian website, the spelling of which you yourself are yet to master, at 100,000 BTC?! 100K BTC?  Over 600 million dollars at current prices?  Could you doublecheck your calculations to make sure a few extra zeros haven't been tacked on by mistake?  I understand that occasionally happens when dealing with large numbers.

Hi Crumbs,

At ~$600 the current Bitcoin/Fiat rate BTC100,000 = $60,000,000   Not the $600 Million referenced above!

Could you please clarify where we may have made a mistake. We appreciate you input.

Thank you,

Havelock Investments

[crumbs]

You value your Panamanian website, the spelling of which you yourself are yet to master, at 100,000 BTC?! 100K BTC?  Over 600 million dollars at current prices?  Could you doublecheck your calculations to make sure a few extra zeros haven't been tacked on by mistake?  I understand that occasionally happens when dealing with large numbers.

Hi Crumbs,

At ~$600 the current Bitcoin/Fiat rate BTC100,000 = $60,000,000   Not the $600 Million referenced above!

Could you please clarify where we may have made a mistake. We appreciate you input.

Thank you,

Havelock Investments

Oh, thank goodness *I* am not trying to float a mlti-million dollar company.  Imagine how embarrassing that sort of a slip-up would have been?
Oh, wait...  You don't have to imagine.
*If you would like your other mistakes clarified, i'm eager to help a fellow tinkerer in this open source economy.

[joele]

What is the capital to be raised in this IPO needed for?

New house, car, vocation, luxury, what else.. oh,  better customer service 

[ar9]

What is the capital to be raised in this IPO needed for?

New house, car, vocation, luxury, what else.. oh,  better customer service 

Bingo.
This is why I am entirely turned off by this enterprise.

[runam0k]

Come on guys, they just want $60 MILLION DOLLARS to play with. What's the big deal?

[velacreations]

To make this even half way worthwhile for investors, you need to back up this security with some sort of insurance to mitigate the high risk. Typical return in this area is well over 30% APR for something with a similar risk profile.

So, if you are giving 6%, you need to come up with a way to lower that risk.

[Lohoris]

I always hate the rushed feeling of all this. Documents are released to the public, and 24 hours after that the fund goes live. That's never enough time for an investor to make a calculated decision on whether or not investing is a good idea. Add in the "Get it while we offer at a 50% discount" attitude and everything starts to blend in with the other quickly thrown together short-lived ventures.

I'm not saying Havelock doesn't know what they're doing or that this isn't any less legitimate than I think it is...just more of a "I wouldn't do it this way for various reasons" kind of thing.  

+1

The only reason I can think of for such a hurry, is that they hope for someone panic-buying without giving it much attention.

Of course if there is a better reason I wasn't able to think of, I'd be happy!

[durdenBTC]

To make this even half way worthwhile for investors, you need to back up this security with some sort of insurance to mitigate the high risk. Typical return in this area is well over 30% APR for something with a similar risk profile.

So, if you are giving 6%, you need to come up with a way to lower that risk.

Since when do securities offer insurance?  Investing is a risk, if you don't want to take on the risk fine but its kinda funny that you require a safety net.   Do venture capitalists ask for insurance?  Did people investing in google when it came out demand insurance?  You want a guaranteed return on your investment, go buy 0.2% treasuries or something "safe".  You don't get the potential growth without taking on the risk yourself.
Go play at the kids table if you can't handle it.

[enderbender]

crazy!

the numbers are outright insulting..

the market aint big enough to make your site worth that much

think about it guys.. this is nuts -- just hold your bitcoins tight

[crumbs]

To make this even half way worthwhile for investors, you need to back up this security with some sort of insurance to mitigate the high risk. Typical return in this area is well over 30% APR for something with a similar risk profile.

So, if you are giving 6%, you need to come up with a way to lower that risk.

Since when do securities offer insurance?  Investing is a risk, if you don't want to take on the risk fine but its kinda funny that you require a safety net.   Do venture capitalists ask for insurance?  Did people investing in google when it came out demand insurance?  You want a guaranteed return on your investment, go buy 0.2% treasuries or something "safe".  You don't get the potential growth without taking on the risk yourself.
Go play at the kids table if you can't handle it.

Lol, hurry up and GET IN THE VAN!

[velacreations]

Do venture capitalists ask for insurance? 

for the amount of money we are giving them, we would get more than 5% ownership if we were venture capitalists.  We'd also get a bigger chunk of the profits.

You don't get the potential growth without taking on the risk yourself.

what potential growth?  Even their own optimistic estimates put this at 6% APR with 50 new listings a year.  The investors here are taking ALL the risk and getting very little in return.

You want a guaranteed return on your investment, go buy 0.2% treasuries or something "safe".

For the level of risk with this venture, we should be getting a bigger cut for us effectively loaning them our money.  Look at the other securities with similar risk profiles.  The APR is 30% or more.

I mean, 2 of their competitors closed within the last 2 months, and both competitors were considerably larger, had significantly more users/listings, had better service, had better interfaces/platforms, and they STILL closed.  What does HL bring to the market?  "We're not closed... yet"  In every single way, they offer an inferior service to those that have shut down.

On the subject of risk and some sort of mitigation for that risk, look at XBOND, they are paying 17% and have considerably less risk than this security.

Go play at the kids table if you can't handle it.

Adults do the math, and when it doesn't add up, they ask questions.  I know you're new here, so I'll let that one slide, but you should really be asking questions, not jumping on those that do.

[durdenBTC]

Do venture capitalists ask for insurance? 

for the amount of money we are giving them, we would get more than 5% ownership if we were venture capitalists.  We'd also get a bigger chunk of the profits.

You don't get the potential growth without taking on the risk yourself.

what potential growth?  Even their own optimistic estimates put this at 6% APR with 50 new listings a year.  The investors here are taking ALL the risk and getting very little in return.

You want a guaranteed return on your investment, go buy 0.2% treasuries or something "safe".

For the level of risk with this venture, we should be getting a bigger cut for us effectively loaning them our money.  Look at the other securities with similar risk profiles.  The APR is 30% or more.

I mean, 2 of their competitors closed within the last 2 months, and both competitors were considerably larger, had significantly more users/listings, had better service, had better interfaces/platforms, and they STILL closed.  What does HL bring to the market?  "We're not closed... yet"  In every single way, they offer an inferior service to those that have shut down.

On the subject of risk and some sort of mitigation for that risk, look at XBOND, they are paying 17% and have considerably less risk than this security.

Go play at the kids table if you can't handle it.

Adults do the math, and when it doesn't add up, they ask questions.  I know you're new here, so I'll let that one slide, but you should really be asking questions, not jumping on those that do.

Wow, thanks for proving to everyone you have no clue about investing.  6% APR is the dividends...which few if any startups ever pay.  You think the early investors demanded google to start paying dividends or rightly re-investing profits into the business.   The investor's return comes in the form of CAPITAL GAINS. You are looking for a bond not a stock/fund.


You'll let that one slide?  OH THANK YOU HAVE MERCY.  You have allowed me to exist.

[crumbs]

...
You'll let that one slide?  OH THANK YOU HAVE MERCY.  You have allowed me to exist.

Whose sock are you, anyway?  You registered yesterday just to shill for this absurdity?

[havelock]

Thank you for all that have contacted us and showed us your support, we truly appreciate it.

Our company is a Bitcoin based business, and since our Revenue and our Expenses are tied to Bitcoin we are unable to value it based on any Fiat/Bitcoin ratio.

We believe in Bitcoin for the long term. We operate at the Bitcoin to Bitcoin ratio. The people in our team would continue to work with Bitcoin if it was worth $1, $10 or $1000. The same way that a business in Europe calculates its revenue based in EURO and another business in China in Yuan, we value our company in Bitcoins.

We don't believe that anyone is able to predict what the price of Bitcoin would be in FY2014, that is why we operate only in Bitcoins. It is a must for our type of business.

All of our Team members including even the Landlord have agreed to accept Bitcoin as payment, regardless of its ratio.

We believe that in order to run a successful Bitcoin business, a company can not change its rates based on external prices of what Bitcoin is worth today, tomorrow or next year.

WE are not in business of Fiat or in exchanging anything into Fiat. We only handle Bitcoins, and we believe that other Bitcoin companies should follow the same model if Bitcoin is to become a hard currency where it is not only used as a Stock, but used the same way that we all use the USD, EUR or JPY.

Please do not place a value of our company or any other Bitcoin company based on how many USD it is worth. The whole point of Bitcoin is to step away from that approach.
We value our company based on our projected revenue in Bitcoins not in USD.

Once again we appreciate all of the great feedback we have received and are looking forward to serving the needs of the companies we manage and the users we serve.

Thank you,

Havelock Investments

[velacreations]

6% APR is the dividends...which few if any startups ever pay.  You think the early investors demanded google to start paying dividends or rightly re-investing profits into the business.   The investor's return comes in the form of CAPITAL GAINS. You are looking for a bond not a stock/fund.

maybe you should browse through the "stocks" listed on HL to see their dividends and APR rates.

This is bitcoin, not USD regulated markets, so the risk is considerably higher.  And yes, here in the BTC securities market, we require high risk securities to offer faster and higher returns in exchange for the RISK LEVELS we are exposed to.  The risk with this particular security is EXTREMELY high because of the market they are in and they bring nothing new to the marketplace.

Where do the capital gains come from in this market?  Where is the flood of new securities to even meet the optimistic levels in the prospectus?  They claim a value of $60M USD?  seriously?  for a bad exchange website with a couple of lightly traded securities?  How in the hell are they going increase that value?

Comparing USD securities, like Google, to small BTC exchanges shows how little you know about this market.

You are looking for a bond not a stock/fund.

No, I am looking for an investment with an appropriate profit/risk ratio. 

[velacreations]

Please do not place a value of our company or any other Bitcoin company based on how many USD it is worth. The whole point of Bitcoin is to step away from that approach.
We value our company based on our projected revenue in Bitcoins not in USD.

You are saying you are worth 100,000 BTC, which is completely unreasonable.  What did BTCT sell for or was selling for?  They had a lot more securities than you, a better platform and significantly more trust.  And even then, no one would value them at 100,000 BTC. 

What is the justification for the value listed? 

When the IPO is already starting out significantly overvalued and pays extremely low dividends with very high risk, there is no incentive to invest.

[crumbs]

Is it customary for a multi-million dollar registered business to withhold information such as the names of its owners/directors?  Can we at least get a link to your Facebook page or YouTube account?
The only info provided is a phone number resolving in Minnesota, USA.  Is this also typical for Panamanian corporations?

[Peter Lambert]

Thank you for all that have contacted us and showed us your support, we truly appreciate it.

Our company is a Bitcoin based business, and since our Revenue and our Expenses are tied to Bitcoin we are unable to value it based on any Fiat/Bitcoin ratio.

We believe in Bitcoin for the long term. We operate at the Bitcoin to Bitcoin ratio. The people in our team would continue to work with Bitcoin if it was worth $1, $10 or $1000. The same way that a business in Europe calculates its revenue based in EURO and another business in China in Yuan, we value our company in Bitcoins.

We don't believe that anyone is able to predict what the price of Bitcoin would be in FY2014, that is why we operate only in Bitcoins. It is a must for our type of business.

All of our Team members including even the Landlord have agreed to accept Bitcoin as payment, regardless of its ratio.

We believe that in order to run a successful Bitcoin business, a company can not change its rates based on external prices of what Bitcoin is worth today, tomorrow or next year.

WE are not in business of Fiat or in exchanging anything into Fiat. We only handle Bitcoins, and we believe that other Bitcoin companies should follow the same model if Bitcoin is to become a hard currency where it is not only used as a Stock, but used the same way that we all use the USD, EUR or JPY.

Please do not place a value of our company or any other Bitcoin company based on how many USD it is worth. The whole point of Bitcoin is to step away from that approach.
We value our company based on our projected revenue in Bitcoins not in USD.

Once again we appreciate all of the great feedback we have received and are looking forward to serving the needs of the companies we manage and the users we serve.

You still have to face the reality that bitcoin is a deflationary currency. It does not matter how you measure it: USD, EUR, gold, silver, man hours, acres of land in Manhattan; the value of a bitcoin is designed to go up over time. It may seem reasonable to charge 1 bitcoin for a listing now, but if the value of a bitcoin rises drastically then that amount will seem absurd to anybody considering listing on the exchange. So you will be forced to either lower the prices for your services or you will have less people utilize those services, either way we can expect the revenues measured in bitcoin to decrease over time.

This IPO seems overpriced to me. You can say you value the company at 100000 btc instead of 60000000 USD, but it means the same thing and is equally overvalued.

Is this a SatoshiDice style IPO where all the money generated from stock sales goes into the pockets of the current owners, or is this raising new capital for the company? What will the money be spent on?

Edit Wait, somebody said there are 100`000`000 units, but now I see there are 20`000`000 units listed, that is a big difference, could you clarify? Even with a market cap of only 20`000 btc, I think that is still overpriced.

And there seems to be some confusion over the price being listed as 0.005 vs 0.0005, there are still bid orders at 0.005, those people will be very sad to find out they bought at 10x the going price, maybe you should send out an email to all the people who received the announcement email stating that there was a mixup and they should change their bids?

Edit Edit: Ah, now I see, you are selling 25% of 20% of the company. Why not just say you are selling 5% of the company? Why make a distinction between the 80% you are not selling and the 15% which is not for sale?

What is the current sales volume per day for the site?

You expect to spend 300`000 USD each on law and accounting firms? You should really look into hiring your own lawyer and accountant and cut that cost way down!

If I am calculating right, using your numbers, you want a P/E of (100000/5870) = 17, like I said this seems a bit on the expensive side to me, for such a risky investment.

[velacreations]

If I am calculating right, using your numbers, you want a P/E of (100000/5870) = 17, like I said this seems a bit on the expensive side to me, for such a risky investment.

yeah, especially as they have never come close to those numbers nor provide any reason or methods on how they will achieve those levels of profit.  Do you see a flood of new securities lining up to sign up on HL?  I don't.

[canuckgal]

Still looks like the ipo is getting eaten up pretty quick