[HAVELOCK] (HIF) Havelock Investments Fund

[DrGregMulhauser]

Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between an outright attempt to scam and mere gross incompetence.

I can't tell you which one of these two alternatives applies in this particular case, but I don't believe it's worth my time -- or anybody's time -- even to bother analysing which alternative it might be.

The claimed financials are so transparently ludicrous it's not even funny.

And incidentally, it would be very easy to come up with those "50 Funds in the Pipeline for FY2014", each of which will be coughing up 12 BTC per annum in fees. All that takes is 600 BTC, which is easily covered by the initial tranche from running the HIF IPRO^* itself -- presto, instantly visible revenues to reassure those "loyal users" and visionary early adopters. And naturally, if each of those 50 funds runs its own IPRO^* to secure even just a fraction of the amount sucked up by first IPRO^*, the whole thing could keep itself running long enough to generate quite the handsome payoff before collapsing.

^*IPRO = Initial Public Rip-Off

[Deprived]

Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between an outright attempt to scam and mere gross incompetence.

I can't tell you which one of these two alternatives applies in this particular case, but I don't believe it's worth my time -- or anybody's time -- even to bother analysing which alternative it might be.

The claimed financials are so transparently ludicrous it's not even funny.

And incidentally, it would be very easy to come up with those "50 Funds in the Pipeline for FY2014", each of which will be coughing up 12 BTC per annum in fees. All that takes is 600 BTC, which is easily covered by the initial tranche from running the HIF IPRO^* itself -- presto, instantly visible revenues to reassure those "loyal users" and visionary early adopters. And naturally, if each of those 50 funds runs its own IPRO^* to secure even just a fraction of the amount sucked up by first IPRO^*, the whole thing could keep itself running long enough to generate quite the handsome payoff before collapsing.

^*IPRO = Initial Public Rip-Off

Yeah, the whole thing stinks of either scam or ignorance/incompetence and the contract/prospectus is missing so much information as to be beyond a joke.

[velacreations]

Even if this isn't a scam, the return and terms are ridiculous for this market.  As soon as this is a real alternative, like Colored coins or Mastercoin or whatever solution people come up with, Havelock will most certainly close.  They offer nothing new, and don't even meet the standards that other exchanges had (and even they closed).  The site is ridiculous from an user standpoint and is the biggest obstacle to user adoption.

So, the future of HL is fragile, at best, and paying 6% for that kind of risk is ludicrous.

[velacreations]

Colored coins or Mastercoin or whatever

Those aren't competitors to exchanges, in their current or dreamed forms they do not provide what people expect, like liquidity. It's a fancy way of doing direct shares, no more.

I think when they get figured out, they will become a competitor to exchanges.  Even direct shares, as they are now, is a competition to exchanges.  How many direct shares of AM are there vs how many are listed on Havelock?  Look at how many shareholders chose to hold on to their shares after BTCT vs moving them to Havelock.  That doesn't show much confidence in Havelock.

These solutions are not ready for wide use, yet, but make no mistake, centralized exchanges are not what the market is currently requesting.

Regardless of your feelings about the solutions being presented, people are not flocking to Havelock and the proposed valuation is complete nonsense.

[enderbender]

Colored coins or Mastercoin or whatever

Those aren't competitors to exchanges, in their current or dreamed forms they do not provide what people expect, like liquidity. It's a fancy way of doing direct shares, no more.

I think when they get figured out, they will become a competitor to exchanges.  Even direct shares, as they are now, is a competition to exchanges.  How many direct shares of AM are there vs how many are listed on Havelock?  Look at how many shareholders chose to hold on to their shares after BTCT vs moving them to Havelock.  That doesn't show much confidence in Havelock.

These solutions are not ready for wide use, yet, but make no mistake, centralized exchanges are not what the market is currently requesting.

bro you write some of the most delusional, shortsighted, ignorant comments in this board

wtf do u know about what the market wants or needs..

just cuz 4 corny knowitalls on a forum say decentralized is the future dont make it the death of all things that make sense

smh

how much pot do you smoke?

talk less please

[Peter Lambert]

Colored coins or Mastercoin or whatever

Those aren't competitors to exchanges, in their current or dreamed forms they do not provide what people expect, like liquidity. It's a fancy way of doing direct shares, no more.

I think when they get figured out, they will become a competitor to exchanges.  Even direct shares, as they are now, is a competition to exchanges.  How many direct shares of AM are there vs how many are listed on Havelock?  Look at how many shareholders chose to hold on to their shares after BTCT vs moving them to Havelock.  That doesn't show much confidence in Havelock.

These solutions are not ready for wide use, yet, but make no mistake, centralized exchanges are not what the market is currently requesting.

bro you write some of the most delusional, shortsighted, ignorant comments in this board

wtf do u know about what the market wants or needs..

just cuz 4 corny knowitalls on a forum say decentralized is the future dont make it the death of all things that make sense

smh

how much pot do you smoke?

talk less please

Rage much?

Even if the proposed solutions of colored coins or mastercoin do not directly compete with Havelock, they or some other decentralized system will be run over various marketplaces which will compete with Havelock. There is also the possibility of somebody buying the BTCT code and starting up another exchange, or somebody writing up new code or whatever. The barrier to entry in this space is very low, companies will list at the exchange that gives them the best combination of price, exposure, and security.

[velacreations]

wtf do u know about what the market wants or needs..

so the market is flocking to centralized exchanges?

NB: Don't take that as an endorsement of HIF.

yeah, I agree with what you're saying, and like I said, the proposed solutions are not ready, yet.  They currently are not a threat to exchanges, but it's obvious that the exchanges that currently exist (Havelock included) are not attracting a lot of users nor issuers that did exist on previous platforms.

That adds to the fact that HIF is a terrible investment with a LOT of risk.

[enderbender]

Colored coins or Mastercoin or whatever

Those aren't competitors to exchanges, in their current or dreamed forms they do not provide what people expect, like liquidity. It's a fancy way of doing direct shares, no more.

I think when they get figured out, they will become a competitor to exchanges.  Even direct shares, as they are now, is a competition to exchanges.  How many direct shares of AM are there vs how many are listed on Havelock?  Look at how many shareholders chose to hold on to their shares after BTCT vs moving them to Havelock.  That doesn't show much confidence in Havelock.

These solutions are not ready for wide use, yet, but make no mistake, centralized exchanges are not what the market is currently requesting.

bro you write some of the most delusional, shortsighted, ignorant comments in this board

wtf do u know about what the market wants or needs..

just cuz 4 corny knowitalls on a forum say decentralized is the future dont make it the death of all things that make sense

smh

how much pot do you smoke?

talk less please

Rage much?

Even if the proposed solutions of colored coins or mastercoin do not directly compete with Havelock, they or some other decentralized system will be run over various marketplaces which will compete with Havelock. There is also the possibility of somebody buying the BTCT code and starting up another exchange, or somebody writing up new code or whatever. The barrier to entry in this space is very low, companies will list at the exchange that gives them the best combination of price, exposure, and security.

whats your point, people gon make things that do things, and people gon do things and maybe not other things?

thx bruh

this thread is for pointing out that HIF is a ripoff all on its own, can we stay on topic?

[velacreations]

but it looks like people want to get listed on Havelock.

what leads you to believe this?

[crumbs]

There's a lot of exchanges opening up (too many to keep track of actually) but it looks like people want to get listed on Havelock. I guess it gives a certain image. Now, if only they got rid of that stinky Labcoin passthrough...

Of the 14 securities being traded on this "exchange," two have a market cap of 1BTC (actually lower, but market cap doesn't have fractions ), and all but one stock have tanked.
What is that winning stock?  It's Havelock Investments Fund itself, floated yesterdy & not yet traded.  Give it a chance

[lightbox]

A quick search for your US number results in http://scamadvocates.com/1442-Secure-Holding-Investments.html "Secure Holding Investments Scam."

Awesome.

Quite an unfortunate randomly assigned phone number.  This is how all telecom providers work, they have a "pool" of numbers that they can recycle and give out to other clients after set periods of time.  Traditionally the turnover was a lot slower, but these days with VOIP, its easy to activate/remove toll free numbers with the click of a button and the providers end up turning over their pool more frequently.

[crumbs]

A quick search for your US number results in http://scamadvocates.com/1442-Secure-Holding-Investments.html "Secure Holding Investments Scam."

Awesome.

Quite an unfortunate randomly assigned phone number.  This is how all telecom providers work, they have a "pool" of numbers that they can recycle and give out to other clients after set periods of time.  Traditionally the turnover was a lot slower, but these days with VOIP, its easy to activate/remove toll free numbers with the click of a button and the providers end up turning over their pool more frequently.

One bit of ugliness could be written off as an unfortunate coincidence.  Every bit of this offering simply scrams "scam."  Considering BTC securities failure rate as a whole (none of the shares currently offered by Havelock are trading at a higher than issue price.  Two have collapsed.) and the opportunities presented by an anonymous exchange floating its own shares...  There's only one way this will end.
Regardless, this offering is simply too sloppily executed and poorly baited to be taken seriously.

Edit:  What's your current role in this offering?

[Peter Lambert]

Colored coins or Mastercoin or whatever

Those aren't competitors to exchanges, in their current or dreamed forms they do not provide what people expect, like liquidity. It's a fancy way of doing direct shares, no more.

I think when they get figured out, they will become a competitor to exchanges.  Even direct shares, as they are now, is a competition to exchanges.  How many direct shares of AM are there vs how many are listed on Havelock?  Look at how many shareholders chose to hold on to their shares after BTCT vs moving them to Havelock.  That doesn't show much confidence in Havelock.

These solutions are not ready for wide use, yet, but make no mistake, centralized exchanges are not what the market is currently requesting.

bro you write some of the most delusional, shortsighted, ignorant comments in this board

wtf do u know about what the market wants or needs..

just cuz 4 corny knowitalls on a forum say decentralized is the future dont make it the death of all things that make sense

smh

how much pot do you smoke?

talk less please

Rage much?

Even if the proposed solutions of colored coins or mastercoin do not directly compete with Havelock, they or some other decentralized system will be run over various marketplaces which will compete with Havelock. There is also the possibility of somebody buying the BTCT code and starting up another exchange, or somebody writing up new code or whatever. The barrier to entry in this space is very low, companies will list at the exchange that gives them the best combination of price, exposure, and security.

whats your point, people gon make things that do things, and people gon do things and maybe not other things?

thx bruh

this thread is for pointing out that HIF is a ripoff all on its own, can we stay on topic?

Did you read what I wrote? My point is that Havelock is in a field with a very low barrier to entry, so even though there are few competitors right now there will be new competitors in the future. Therefore, the risk of losing money on this is high. The proposed reward, even in a best case scenario, does not balance the risk. Therefore, this is severely overpriced.

Why are you getting so mad, I was agreeing with you!


[edit] It looks like you can decrease the number of active funds by 1, xbond is closing, which should lower the projected income.

[Peter Lambert]

When you go on Havelock to the "Browse All Funds" section, there is a column labeled "IPO" and all the funds say "NO", shouldn't it say "YES" in the line with HIF?

[Herp]

I've seen here some people posting that Havelock is unprofessional because they send PMs to people. Really guys?

They are financial guys who have operated a lot in the real world doing real business not trolling forum boards. Give them a break for not knowing all the geek etiquette of "financial bitcoin posting".

This forum is full of clueless "financial experts".

[crumbs]

I've seen here some people posting that Havelock is unprofessional because they send PMs to people. Really guys?

They are financial guys who have operated a lot in the real world doing real business not trolling forum boards. Give them a break for not knowing all the geek etiquette of "financial bitcoin posting".

This forum is full of clueless "financial experts".

No.
In the real world, there are no anonymous multi-million dollar corporations attempting to solicit millions of dollars without disclosing as much as the names of the people involved.
Regarding "geek etiquette of posting":
When fleecing clueless geeks on the interwebs, it pays to learn a few basics about posting.  It shows effort and dedication, and lets the geeks keep a modicum of self-respect upon realizing they've been had.

[Herp]

I've seen here some people posting that Havelock is unprofessional because they send PMs to people. Really guys?

They are financial guys who have operated a lot in the real world doing real business not trolling forum boards. Give them a break for not knowing all the geek etiquette of "financial bitcoin posting".

This forum is full of clueless "financial experts".

No.
In the real world, there are no anonymous multi-million dollar corporations attempting to solicit millions of dollars without disclosing as much as the names of the people involved.
Regarding "geek etiquette of posting":
When fleecing clueless geeks on the interwebs, it pays to learn a few basics about posting.  It shows effort and dedication, and lets the geeks keep a modicum of self-respect upon realizing they've been had.

I believe the Neo&Bee guys publicly said here on forum they personally know all the Panama Fund guys and that they can vouch for them basically. That should be enough for most people here. Not sure about making their real life info public but don't think that would be a problem for them.

[crumbs]

I've seen here some people posting that Havelock is unprofessional because they send PMs to people. Really guys?

They are financial guys who have operated a lot in the real world doing real business not trolling forum boards. Give them a break for not knowing all the geek etiquette of "financial bitcoin posting".

This forum is full of clueless "financial experts".

No.
In the real world, there are no anonymous multi-million dollar corporations attempting to solicit millions of dollars without disclosing as much as the names of the people involved.
Regarding "geek etiquette of posting":
When fleecing clueless geeks on the interwebs, it pays to learn a few basics about posting.  It shows effort and dedication, and lets the geeks keep a modicum of self-respect upon realizing they've been had.

I believe the Neo&Bee guys publicly said here on forum they personally know all the Panama Fund guys and that they can vouch for them basically. That should be enough for most people here. Not sure about making their real life info public but don't think that would be a problem for them.

You're confused.  
If you would happily hand over millions of dollars to a Panamanian shelf company without even knowing the name of the guy who's taking it from you...  I'm sorry to say you're the "clueless 'financial expert'" you claim this forum is full of.

It pains me to see the quality of bitcoin cons fall to such jaw-dropping lows, but i will not stop you from giving away your coin.
Peace.

[Herp]

I've seen here some people posting that Havelock is unprofessional because they send PMs to people. Really guys?

They are financial guys who have operated a lot in the real world doing real business not trolling forum boards. Give them a break for not knowing all the geek etiquette of "financial bitcoin posting".

This forum is full of clueless "financial experts".

No.
In the real world, there are no anonymous multi-million dollar corporations attempting to solicit millions of dollars without disclosing as much as the names of the people involved.
Regarding "geek etiquette of posting":
When fleecing clueless geeks on the interwebs, it pays to learn a few basics about posting.  It shows effort and dedication, and lets the geeks keep a modicum of self-respect upon realizing they've been had.

I believe the Neo&Bee guys publicly said here on forum they personally know all the Panama Fund guys and that they can vouch for them basically. That should be enough for most people here. Not sure about making their real life info public but don't think that would be a problem for them.

You're confused.  
If you would happily hand over millions of dollars to a Panamanian shelf company without even knowing the name of the guy who's taking it from you...  I'm sorry to say you're the "clueless 'financial expert'" you claim this forum is full of.

It pains me to see the quality of bitcoin cons fall to such jaw-dropping lows, but i will not stop you from giving away your coin.
Peace.

Neo&Bee is probably most established crypto stock right now and they can vouch for these guys, as I was saying. You can pick up the phone and call them. I don't think they'd shy away for giving out their names. Remind me again what's one of best selling stocks in here? Who's friedcat? Do you know who he is? Can you call him on the phone? I rest my case.

I didn't buy their stock so I didn't really look into it in detail. What I'm saying should give you pause because you'll probably end up looking foolish when more info surfaces about these guys.

[crumbs]

You're confused.  
If you would happily hand over millions of dollars to a Panamanian shelf company without even knowing the name of the guy who's taking it from you...  I'm sorry to say you're the "clueless 'financial expert'" you claim this forum is full of.

It pains me to see the quality of bitcoin cons fall to such jaw-dropping lows, but i will not stop you from giving away your coin.
Peace.

Neo&Bee is probably most established crypto stock right now and they can vouch for these guys, as I was saying. You can pick up the phone and call them. I don't think they'd shy away for giving out their names. Remind me again what's one of best selling stocks in here? Who's friedcat? Do you know who he is? Can you call him on the phone? I rest my case.

I didn't buy their stock so I didn't really look into it in detail. What I'm saying should give you pause because you'll probably end up looking foolish when more info surfaces about these guys.

Lol, you actually worry about me looking foolish on the off chance this proves *not* to be a scam?
If you're investing to make yourself look clever, you're doing it wrong
As far as who's friedcat:  He's the guy whose stock i'm happy as shit i ain't holdin'. It tanked