Behaviour on the Speculation board: women not welcome?

[ag@th0s]

You're a joke, OP.

Starting with a reasonable observation ("kinda unfriendly atmosphere for women") and then you nonchalantly let fly:

And perhaps a few less "I'd fap her" and soft-porn images would stop the general tone that you are basically a bunch of bitter, middle-aged, sexually frustrated, misogynistic geeks.

Ergo: You're not one bit better than those you resent.

Fuck off. That's my professional, gender neutral opinion.

ftfy - with emphasis, in case you didn't understand the meaning of the full sentence.

Really? You want to play the exegesis game? okay, let's get back to complete OP's post...

/sigh*/

Are there actually any other women here?

Everyday I wake up and check the posts on the Wall Thread and all that's gone before are (given the time zone) US men measuring their cocks and posturing (unfair generalization in absolute terms. factually incorrect: lots of posts other than posturing.).  Really guys a Freudian would have field day with some of you. I appreciate speculating is a male dominated area but really...do you have to be so Neanderthal. (polemic remark/insult. hardly helpful in any discussion.)

I've been reading these forums since almost the beginning and fought the urge to join because internet forums tend to be frat houses in general but at least now I can press ignore on the massive flacid egos (sexual innuendo belittlement. kind of hypocritical in this context, huh?) like Walsoraj, Crumbs, Pannakke (do you even mine?) or TERA.

Since I've joined I've tried to be helpful and polite, offer some insight where possible (gosh can a noob know anything or be anything other than a spotty adolescent), tried to join in the back slapping, I've sent hopefully helpful PMs to people who have asked for information but most users don't reply and only a small percentage are actually polite - its as if your join date equals your social class. (completely unrelated rant about general unfriendliness. hardly a purely male domain.)  

Yet, you want the rest of the world to adopt BTC - well, I've got some news guys...new people love being treated like dirt...us women especially...we find it such a winning business strategy. That comes in heavy irony tags for those of you a bit slow on emotional intelligence. (another genderist put-down. classy.)

The only positive from the last 8 hours of the above thread is seeing Chodpaba again....hurrah for a polite, sensible and considered voice - I wish you'd restart your Peak/Reversal Watch thread.

The rest of you - try respecting each other and especially newcomers - the world is watching you/us now, you/we are ambassadors for Bitcoin, try and behave like adults.  And perhaps a few less "I'd fap her" and soft-porn images would stop the general tone that you are basically a bunch of bitter, middle-aged, sexually frustrated, misogynistic geeks. (my original quote. interesting format: ostensibly a conditional ("if you'd stop doing this, then..."), followed by a matter of fact claim about men ("basically" is the keyword here). it's another trash-talking remark, otherwise the phrasing doesn't make sense.)

Just a thought

Nan

PS.....and no I'm not a dyke, or not getting any etc etc...happilly married for 14 years.

tl;dr: It's the Internet, you should know how it works by now: the combination of a few real neckbeards, anonymity and teenage immaturity means there will always be some jerk posters. Doesn't mean you can't appeal to people, but accusing the predominantly male userbase of being more or less universally dicks isn't going to help your case.

Fine - beg to differ. I read the OP and found it entirely inoffensive (to me as a man) and substantially true. If bitcoin's devotees want to pretend that they're somehow different they need to behave like they're different, and they don't: the forum is not a welcoming place for women, particularly when they're told to "fuck of" for having the temerity to express an opinion. But then this is hardly new. As Rebecca West said at the beginning of the last century:

“I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is: I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat, or a prostitute.”

[Richy_T]

“I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is: I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat, or a prostitute.”

Prostitutes can't have good opinions? That statement is kind-of telling in itself.

OTOH, I just went and read about her a little and she seems like she was probably OK. Though I'm sure this quote was somewhat tongue-in-cheek

"There is, of course, no reason for the existence of the male sex except that sometimes one needs help with moving the piano."

[Ibian]

No, that is pretty much the feminist MO. They hate men.

Which is also why the OP is finding this place less welcoming than might be possible. Simply dropping the shaming and blaming part of her posts would fix most of it. But that is not going to happen.

[ag@th0s]

“I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is: I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat, or a prostitute.”

Prostitutes can't have good opinions? That statement is kind-of telling in itself.

OTOH, I just went and read about her a little and she seems like she was probably OK. Though I'm sure this quote was somewhat tongue-in-cheek

"There is, of course, no reason for the existence of the male sex except that sometimes one needs help with moving the piano."

There are two versions of the quote in different books, and the first just finishes at doormat.  I think the idea with prostitute is that you expect them to say what men want to hear - she's talking about expressing independent opinion after all.  She also said “The main difference between men and women is that men are lunatics and women are idiots.” - so she didn't pull her punches.  Fantastic writer - George Bernard Shaw seems to have thought that she was better at it than him.

[ag@th0s]

No, that is pretty much the feminist MO. They hate men.

Which is also why the OP is finding this place less welcoming than might be possible. Simply dropping the shaming and blaming part of her posts would fix most of it. But that is not going to happen.

Rebecca West didn't hate men - and they didn't hate her, just check out her wikipedia page.  But she did reserve the right, throughout her life, to say what she thought even if it was against the trend.

[Sindelar1938]

Love the rant

About time somebody called out the elephant in the room...

[Ibian]

No, that is pretty much the feminist MO. They hate men.

Which is also why the OP is finding this place less welcoming than might be possible. Simply dropping the shaming and blaming part of her posts would fix most of it. But that is not going to happen.

Rebecca West didn't hate men - and they didn't hate her, just check out her wikipedia page.  But she did reserve the right, throughout her life, to say what she thought even if it was against the trend.

Who the fuck cares about someone who died the year after I was born. The feminism we have today is completely different. Find a modern example. Just try, if you can.

[oda.krell]

Fine - beg to differ. I read the OP and found it entirely inoffensive (to me as a man) and substantially true. If bitcoin's devotees want to pretend that they're somehow different they need to behave like they're different, and they don't: the forum is not a welcoming place for women, particularly when they're told to "fuck of" for having the temerity to express an opinion. But then this is hardly new. As Rebecca West said at the beginning of the last century:

“I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is: I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat, or a prostitute.”

Dude, where are you getting any of this from?

In the first paragraph of my first post here I said "you start with a decent point, that this place can be unwelcome to women". So I'm acknowledging that.

She then continues with what I consider a pretty genderist post, and for that I tell her to fuck off.

Got a problem with that? Cause I tell that to anyone who I think acts like a dick. And I shouldn't treat women different in principle from man, agreed?

And re: your last line. What makes you think I'm not a feminist? I do however have little patience for whiny housewives complaining that the boy's club she just joined doesn't fall over backwards to change their culture to accommodate her sensitivities.

P.S. I give some credit to OP for starting this thread, at least. Interesting discussion, and somewhat necessary.

p.p.s. at least equally important discussion though:

WHY THE FUCK ARE THERE SO FEW WOMEN IN BITCOIN? I did a survey here myself a while ago, and some others did so as well before, and the numbers are like 90+% here are guys.

Whose fault is that? Nothing prevents women (in sufficiently rich countries) to join this ride, correct? So I am actually worried that, if this whole BTC thing takes off, in 20 years from now women will be *again* fucked economically if they don't get on board NOW.

Let's discuss THAT.

a) why aren't there more women investing in btc?

b) how can we get more women onboard? and don't just say: "just act nicer to women on this forum". that's not going to happen universally (see my explanation of neckbeards+anonymity above), so we need a different, actually practical solutin IMO.

[Ibian]

Men are better at math, computers, economy etc than women. That is simple reality. Nothing can change that.

I'm earning... ridiculous ROI, as we are all well aware. My old man is investing. My mom is not, and my sister thinks it is a bad joke (as does her banker boyfriend).

Reality is a bitch sometimes, s'all.

[Lethn]

Men are better at math, computers, economy etc than women. That is simple reality. Nothing can change that.

You are going to be in for a nasty shock when you meet a genuinely intelligent woman.

[Ibian]

Men are better at math, computers, economy etc than women. That is simple reality. Nothing can change that.

You are going to be in for a nasty shock when you meet a genuinely intelligent woman.

More like a pleasant surprise. Met a few over the decades. Met thousands who were not.

[oda.krell]

Men are better at math, computers, economy etc than women. That is simple reality. Nothing can change that.

You are going to be in for a nasty shock when you meet a genuinely intelligent woman.

See, your mistake is responding to a troll. That'll encourage him.

Plus, if he would be half as good at math as he claims he is he would know that from his anecdotally sized sample ("my mom, my dad") he cannot draw any conclusions. And if he knew the scientific literature, he would know that the iq question is pretty much open atm.

But since he isn't smart or well read, he still lives in his parents' basement. Have some pity please.

[Ibian]

Men are better at math, computers, economy etc than women. That is simple reality. Nothing can change that.

You are going to be in for a nasty shock when you meet a genuinely intelligent woman.

See, your mistake is responding to a troll. That'll encourage him.

Plus, if he would be half as good at math as he claims he is he would know that from his anecdotally sized sample ("my mom, my dad") he cannot draw any conclusions. And if he knew the scientific literature, he would know that the iq question is pretty much open atm.

But since he isn't smart or well read, he still lives in his parents' basement. Have some pity please.

The sample size was "thousands" and "decades". What's wrong with you? You made some decent points earlier, and now this? You are a weird donkey.

[elena_extraordinaire]

p.p.s. at least equally important discussion though:

WHY THE FUCK ARE THERE SO FEW WOMEN IN BITCOIN? I did a survey here myself a while ago, and some others did so as well before, and the numbers are like 90+% here are guys.

Whose fault is that? Nothing prevents women (in sufficiently rich countries) to join this ride, correct? So I am actually worried that, if this whole BTC thing takes off, in 20 years from now women will be *again* fucked economically if they don't get on board NOW.

Let's discuss THAT.

a) why aren't there more women investing in btc?

b) how can we get more women onboard? and don't just say: "just act nicer to women on this forum". that's not going to happen universally (see my explanation of neckbeards+anonymity above), so we need a different, actually practical solutin IMO.

Maybe you are asking the wrong question. Maybe the question we should be asking is "Why are there some women investing in BTC?" As a women myself, I am curious to know if there are any common attributes of us women who are involved in BTC that might make us more likely to be involved compared to other women.

As for feminism, there are various forms of feminism (at least according to what I remember from a feminist philosophies class).

[oda.krell]

Maybe you are asking the wrong question. Maybe the question we should be asking is "Why are there some women investing in BTC?" As a women myself, I am curious to know if there are any common attributes of us women who are involved in BTC that might make us more likely to be involved compared to other women.

As for feminism, there are various forms of feminism (at least according to what I remember from a feminist philosophies class).

Good point. Mind if I ask what your education background is? One of the STEM fields (which probably unites a majority of early adopters in most tech-related innovations)?

Then again, I noticed there's a number of (sometimes older) guys in here that are quite far from those fields (there's a pretty funny dude who seems to work with barn wood, and he seems to be btc loaded ).

Maybe there is *some* element of 'willingness to take potentially irrational risks' involved. Don't want to sound cliche, but there is to my knowledge (though I'm not a biologist or psychologist) some scientific evidence that men are slightly more inclined to take greater risks*, which puts them at a disadvantage at times, but can also pay off if things work out.

Would be interesting to have a survey (among both men and women) to see if, on average, the early BTC are "risk takers", by comparison...


* claims like that require proof, I know. If requested, I'll look up the sources for it.

[Mike Christ]

The speculation board isn't exactly filled with the brightest minds, if you haven't noticed

[jojo69]

Men are better at math, computers, economy etc than women. That is simple reality. Nothing can change that.

the actual fuck?  While this doesn't really even warrant a response I'm just going to drop this here anyway.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Hopper

[nanobrain]

Hi All,
And many thanks to those who have taken the time to post thoughtful replies either pro or anti my position.  Unfortunately, I haven't got time to respond to each individually plus I have received at least one pm which suggests this isn't going to resolve itself nicely.

However, I just want to make a couple of points:

1. To all those who say my OP was OTT...well, maybe it was and maybe there are intellectual or argumentative flaws in there.  But hey, sometimes you are angry and I'm not going apolgise for that - oda.krell: sometimes you get angry when you have a lifetime of this shit and you see it replicated by people who claim to be creating a new fairer world.  

This is my first main point: if crypto is meant to be part of the NWO then this stuff needs to aired and if you are male and this sensitive then really you should go live somewhere where you are in the minority.  You'll soon understand, believe me.

2.  A lot of the advice I am getting is to 'play them at their own game'.  I won't do that because this is a fallacious strategy.  Women behaving like men does not allow women to be women and in the end men will always win: as I said earlier "women wanted liberation but settled for equality".

3. The porn question.  It's a thin end of a wedge and I guess the younger males here have grown up with so much porn and female imagery that it just feels normal but it's not.  

I am, by trade many things including a scientist. So, let's leave the moral and ethical debates and the burgeoning sex slave trade for a minute and look at some science. Although not my field I have a particular interest in neurology.  Dr Valerie Voon has studied the impacts of porn on the brain - I believe this paper has yet to published and is in peer-review.  However, the impact of pleasurable behaviour is not disputed, see: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0896627309010459
while addictions to porn are a recognised phenomena.

A more accessible precis can be found here:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/26/brain-scans-porn-addicts-sexual-tastes

An addiction's ability to change behaviour is well documented and across large social groups is an especially powerful feature that should not be ignored.  Imagine you were forced to eat chocolate or smoke cigarettes where ever you turned in your daily routine - how long before you became addicted, how long before your behaviour changed to accommodate this need?

For those with short attention spans (tl:dr) I'll leave you with this excerpt:

In her book, Bunny Tales: Behind Closed Doors at the Playboy Mansion, Izabella St James, who was one of Hugh Hefner's former "official girlfriends", described sex with Hef. Hef, in his late 70s, would have sex twice a week, sometimes with four or more of his girlfriends at once, St James among them. He had novelty, variety, multiplicity and women willing to do what he pleased. At the end of the happy orgy, wrote St James, came "the grand finale: he masturbated while watching porn".

Here, the man who could actually live out the ultimate porn fantasy, with real porn stars, instead turned from their real flesh and touch, to the image on the screen. Now, I ask you, "what is wrong with this picture?".

[Lethn]

Just from this post it looks from my point of view you're a hysterical feminist and you need to get a grip and realise there are sexists out there as well as people like me who simply don't give a fuck one way or another, yes, if you're being denied job opportunities etc. then you have every right to rant about it but if some random prick says something it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference in the world whether anyone does something about it or not.

By the way, I watch tons of porn and I'm well aware that's not how most women are in real life because I actually talk to them, be sure to get that moronic stereotype out of your head, bitching about female imagery just makes girls seem like they're projecting their own insecurity about their bodies to me and blaming it on the media.

I really hope you're more intelligent than ktttn and that user is supposed to be a guy.

[nanobrain]

By the way, I watch tons of porn and I'm well aware that's not how most women are in real life because I actually talk to them, be sure to get that moronic stereotype out of your head, bitching about female imagery just makes girls seem like they're projecting their own insecurity about their bodies to me and blaming it on the media.

So, on the one hand I'm stupid but on the other you chose to ignore the science I've posted links to.

Hhh,mm which is it?

There is a famous quote by Edward de Bono which to paraphrase says, a person's ego stops them exploring information that may contradict the ego's position.  I'd politely suggest perhaps your ego is getting the better of you.

Is not true intellectual intelligence the ability to accept and assimilate new information?