NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[utopianfuture]

Please confirm the last block       

29984      9433259657262176905      1/1/2014 8:57:35 AM   
2      497 + 2      262 B   
1      7194195512915330456      2379 %

re we on a fork ?
update


29988      2382970272294477859      1/1/2014 9:00:34 AM   
0      0 + 0      0 B   
1      1360612700859448889      590 %

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[PaulyC]

just wanted to add. this is found for the recipient's address in google cached view of the NXT blockchain.
16204974692852323982

not that it will help me get my NXT back I'm sure..
real lame, how my PW was cracked is beyond me.. really.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:xOs0TPi1UPcJ:87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi%3Faction%3D3000%26acc%3D3727742886551973110+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Is this a really random pass or a passphrase that you can remember ? While Nxt security is not yeat at a desirable level I think it is an user's issue that your acc got hacked.

Utopian, thanks. COMPLETELY random like (not exactly) *&D(_xa,I7:{"X  plus another 28 characters, etc. 35 total. wth?
Gotta try to sleep now. argh!

[NxtChoice]

Update regarding Nxt Alias Browser Extensions:

1. I've decided to join forces with ferment (owner of 22k.io), as it's import to cooperate on one of the best features of Nxt and not confuse users with multiple extensions and what not.

2. Now, there is a bit of a difference between my extensions and what 22k.io currently has. I would like some community input on which approach is best.

- 22k.io extensions are "thin clients". The alias entered is immediately sent to 22k.io which then processes the alias; (does a redirect, shows account info, etc.. depending on the alias). This is an advantage because new features can be added easily.

- My extensions are "thick clients". The extension itself processes the alias. It first tries to ask your localhost for the alias URI, if you have the Nxt client running on your computer. If not, it connects to a Nxt node on the internet and asks it for the alias info.

The extension then decides what to do; redirect, open an email, etc..

New features require an update to the extension. I haven't checked yet if auto-update is an option in all browsers.

Which approach is technically best? I don't know. Perhaps a combination of the two could also be done; if the alias is a simple URI or email address, the client handles it, otherwise it's sent to 22k.io which can then show account info, etc...

3. We also have to be careful about security. Especially when it comes to aliases that refer to an account.

If a node is compromised, it could return the attacker's ID instead of the real account ID. This could result in stolen coins if you send to that ID.

That's why it's perhaps better to connect to multiple nodes (3 or more, from different geographical ares) and ask all of them for the alias info, and only if all of them return the same information show the user the result. We also have to make sure that 22k.io is not compromised.

4. I think it's best if this entire project would be handled as a community effort, with some kind of official sanctioning so that users know they can trust the extension/website.

All code, both client side (browser extensions), as well as server side, should also be available for peer review, open-source and hosted on github. I haven't yet got word back from ferment on this.

5. We also need some kind of agreement on the json syntax and other new features.

From the decentralization point of view, I think process locally is better. Of course, more features may be added on the remote server, like 22k, and I also use 22k. So personally I think let the user choose and the plugin provide the choice for the user, local or remote node.

Thanks.

[ferment]

How could we implement email confirmation for sending of NXT?

A service provider watching the blockchain could do this easily.

[utopianfuture]

1. I've decided to join forces with ferment (owner of 22k.io), as it's import to cooperate on one of the best features of Nxt and not confuse users with multiple extensions and what not.

Alright! I think we can go really fast this way. The clock is ticking!

2. Now, there is a bit of a difference between my extensions and what 22k.io currently has. I would like some community input on which approach is best.

- 22k.io extensions are "thin clients".

- My extensions are "thick clients".

Which approach is technically best? I don't know. Perhaps a combination of the two could also be done; if the alias is a simple URI or email address, the client handles it, otherwise it's sent to 22k.io which can then show account info, etc...

I think a hybrid model would be good. Like an option where one could choose "public nxt nodes" or "22k.io" as the source of info. So there will naturally be a trade off on trust vs features.

Thick clients (extensions, native apps, mobile apps with code) are more of a long term investment for the community as they require significant overhead of multiple codebases, releases, distribution, etc.

Thin clients will allow us to test the functionality and progress rapidly.

Both are necessary.

3. We also have to be careful about security. Especially when it comes to aliases that refer to an account.

If a node is compromised, it could return the attacker's ID instead of the real account ID. This could result in stolen coins if you send to that ID.

That's why it's perhaps better to connect to multiple nodes (3 or more, from different geographical ares) and ask all of them for the alias info, and only if all of them return the same information show the user the result. We also have to make sure that 22k.io is not compromised.

A valid point that supports the hybrid thin/thick model. Sensitive information should be handled in the thick client (or javascript in browser). One idea is the thick client could handle "verification" of 22k.io by providing a function to check localhost and public nodes (but not nxtbase nodes!).

4. I think it's best if this entire project would be handled as a community effort, with some kind of official sanctioning so that users know they can trust the extension/website.

I'll respectfully disagree on this point. NXT market adoption doesn't have time to wait this. My strategy is to build cool stuff and address trust issues as they arise. Sanctioning is implicit in adoption.

All code, both client side (browser extensions), as well as server side, should also be available for peer review, open-source and hosted on github. I haven't yet got word back from ferment on this.

I'm all for client stuff being open source. However, I would prefer to keep the "special sauce" closed and then open source libraries based on the work. I'm still trying to figure out how to make the NXTs off this work. If the community wants to invest, then open sourcing everything is certainly an option I'd consider. I have a 5 person dev/ops team at my disposal, but I can't pull them off paying gigs without revenue generation.

If we follow a model where security related things are always handled on the client side, then this shouldn't be an issue. If we follow a "trust, but verify" approach, the need for open sourcing as test of trustworthiness is not required (besides, I could run different code and not tell anyone).

5. We also need some kind of agreement on the json syntax and other new features.

My strategy is to just start defining stuff and implementing. If someone doesn't like the format, they're free to implement it differently.  History has shown that adoption is the best form of "agreement". Let the market decide.

So, would I propose, is that we start publishing an API and spec for 22k.io as we implement support for advanced alias features and other things.

Exciting stuff!

I agree with ferment's bold statement. We need individual initiatives and responsibility. Decentralization just means everyone can take an initiative without a central party's confirmation  even it is a collective party. Just do what you think  is best and the market will sort out who can be trusted.  

[Alias]

Could you pls elaborate more on "decentralised programmable economy"  this is a powerful marketing concept.

My ideas behind this are not fully fledged yet and I want to keep reading and researching more before I go into detail but I will make a quick comment to pique your interest.

Whether organically or orchestrated, I get the impression that the entire NXT economy will fragment into a large number of micro-economies. These may be based around simple well known concepts.

For example, each micro-economy might form around a decentralized credit union facility. Every member of the credit union will effectively pool forged transaction fees together to create the credit unions reserve fund. The role of the credit union will be to stimulate the "local economy" (the economic activities of its members). Members would then receive dividends based on the performance of the credit union.

How the credit union invests and uses its money will be determined by its members (using the voting features of the NXT system). Just to highlight it, in case it is not clear - this credit union would not exist as a tangible entity, it will not require staff and it will not have any agenda or motivations of its own.

Each microeconomy will surely compete with against each other, BUT the key element (which may involve some of the concepts outlined in my Cybernetics Paper) is that the biggest and/or wealthiest microeconomy will not necessarily be the most competitive or rewarding to its members.


On an abstract level I would encourage people to think about the Water Cycle and it's processes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_cycle). Then use this as an analogy for the NXT economy (the most obvious commonality being: water generally is not created or destroyed on planet earth, it is simply recycled; likewise NXT coins generally are not created or destroyed within the NXT system, they are also recycled).

Credit where credit is due: If you read enough material generated by NXTers across the community (including many posts within this very thread) you will see that other people are independently arriving at similar ideas. It is my intention to contribute by helping to formalize or apply structure to these ideas.

[mr_random]

just wanted to add. this is found for the recipient's address in google cached view of the NXT blockchain.
16204974692852323982

not that it will help me get my NXT back I'm sure..
real lame, how my PW was cracked is beyond me.. really.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:xOs0TPi1UPcJ:87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi%3Faction%3D3000%26acc%3D3727742886551973110+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Is this a really random pass or a passphrase that you can remember ? While Nxt security is not yeat at a desirable level I think it is an user's issue that your acc got hacked.

Utopian, thanks. COMPLETELY random like (not exactly) *&D(_xa,I7:{"X  plus another 28 characters, etc. 35 total. wth?
Gotta try to sleep now. argh!

Then it wasn't brute forced. Not possible. How much NXT did you lose pal?

[utopianfuture]

just wanted to add. this is found for the recipient's address in google cached view of the NXT blockchain.
16204974692852323982

not that it will help me get my NXT back I'm sure..
real lame, how my PW was cracked is beyond me.. really.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:xOs0TPi1UPcJ:87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi%3Faction%3D3000%26acc%3D3727742886551973110+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Is this a really random pass or a passphrase that you can remember ? While Nxt security is not yeat at a desirable level I think it is an user's issue that your acc got hacked.

Utopian, thanks. COMPLETELY random like (not exactly) *&D(_xa,I7:{"X  plus another 28 characters, etc. 35 total. wth?
Gotta try to sleep now. argh!

Then it wasn't brute forced. Not possible. How much NXT did you lose pal?

Yep, can't brute force this type of pass. He probably typed his pass somewhere on the net. Has  to be extremely careful these days.

[PaulyC]

just wanted to add. this is found for the recipient's address in google cached view of the NXT blockchain.
16204974692852323982

not that it will help me get my NXT back I'm sure..
real lame, how my PW was cracked is beyond me.. really.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:xOs0TPi1UPcJ:87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi%3Faction%3D3000%26acc%3D3727742886551973110+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Is this a really random pass or a passphrase that you can remember ? While Nxt security is not yeat at a desirable level I think it is an user's issue that your acc got hacked.

Utopian, thanks. COMPLETELY random like (not exactly) *&D(_xa,I7:{"X  plus another 28 characters, etc. 35 total. wth?
Gotta try to sleep now. argh!

Then it wasn't brute forced. Not possible. How much NXT did you lose pal?

Hey thanks, about 7800,
Not a huge amount, but it's not like I have a ton of BTC either.

so I guess my aliases are gone too? they shouldn't ever be able to used, whoever you are thief!.. ARGH.

Yea I can't imagine? Very careful, Like I said on nextcoin.org. I don't use my "main" account in my Sig, and don't even save a few characters at the beginning and end, for any of my PWs, anywhere, (just mentally) just to prevent any possibility of accidentally copying and pasting, etc.

I'll hope to wake up and see the blockchain was just "updating" or something and this was just a bad new years dream! But i guess not because it's being confirmed before my eyes.
thanks

[PaulyC]

just wanted to add. this is found for the recipient's address in google cached view of the NXT blockchain.
16204974692852323982

not that it will help me get my NXT back I'm sure..
real lame, how my PW was cracked is beyond me.. really.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:xOs0TPi1UPcJ:87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi%3Faction%3D3000%26acc%3D3727742886551973110+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Is this a really random pass or a passphrase that you can remember ? While Nxt security is not yeat at a desirable level I think it is an user's issue that your acc got hacked.

Utopian, thanks. COMPLETELY random like (not exactly) *&D(_xa,I7:{"X  plus another 28 characters, etc. 35 total. wth?
Gotta try to sleep now. argh!

Then it wasn't brute forced. Not possible. How much NXT did you lose pal?

Yep, can't brute force this type of pass. He probably typed his pass somewhere on the net. Has  to be extremely careful these days.

Utopian, definitely did not. that's all I can say.  but cool.

[EvilDave]

Block chain check:

   29993      7542917420413518667      woensdag 1 januari 2014 15:11:25   
      
      8      2 + 8      1'175 B   
      
      1      16489812608969511447      599 %

[S3MKi]

29996      17491178046969559641      1 Cтyдзeнь 2014 17:17:22   
      
      2      1'696 + 2      264 B   
      
      1      1303001992426502331      889 %

[NxtChoice]

Hey, block @30000 is coming, welcome!

[utopianfuture]

Block chain check:

   29993      7542917420413518667      woensdag 1 januari 2014 15:11:25   
      
      8      2 + 8      1'175 B   
      
      1      16489812608969511447      599 %

Same here, there was a moment I think we had a fork. It is looking okie right now.

29998      792771258323459600      1/1/2014 9:17:57 AM   
0      0 + 0      0 B   
1      4048985520109362351      222 %

[NxtChoice]

29998      792771258323459600      1/1/2014 10:17:57 PM   
0      0 + 0      0 B   
1      4048985520109362351      222 %   

[landomata]

How could we implement email confirmation for sending of NXT?

A service provider watching the blockchain could do this easily.

This should be implemented...it would remove the possibility all together of Nxt being stolen...would also be another advantage for Nxt

[S3MKi]

30000      8844045846155483562      1 Cтyдзeнь 2014 17:23:33   
      
      2      0 + 4      293 B   
      
      1      10094696138621311426      889 %

[PaulyC]

How could we implement email confirmation for sending of NXT?

A service provider watching the blockchain could do this easily.

This should be implemented...it would remove the possibility all together of Nxt being stolen...would also be another advantage for Nxt

Can we go back in time and implement this like 2 hours ago!? yes!

[wesleyh]

1. I've decided to join forces with ferment (owner of 22k.io), as it's import to cooperate on one of the best features of Nxt and not confuse users with multiple extensions and what not.

Alright! I think we can go really fast this way. The clock is ticking!

2. Now, there is a bit of a difference between my extensions and what 22k.io currently has. I would like some community input on which approach is best.

- 22k.io extensions are "thin clients".

- My extensions are "thick clients".

Which approach is technically best? I don't know. Perhaps a combination of the two could also be done; if the alias is a simple URI or email address, the client handles it, otherwise it's sent to 22k.io which can then show account info, etc...

I think a hybrid model would be good. Like an option where one could choose "public nxt nodes" or "22k.io" as the source of info. So there will naturally be a trade off on trust vs features.

Thick clients (extensions, native apps, mobile apps with code) are more of a long term investment for the community as they require significant overhead of multiple codebases, releases, distribution, etc.

Thin clients will allow us to test the functionality and progress rapidly.

Both are necessary.

3. We also have to be careful about security. Especially when it comes to aliases that refer to an account.

If a node is compromised, it could return the attacker's ID instead of the real account ID. This could result in stolen coins if you send to that ID.

That's why it's perhaps better to connect to multiple nodes (3 or more, from different geographical ares) and ask all of them for the alias info, and only if all of them return the same information show the user the result. We also have to make sure that 22k.io is not compromised.

A valid point that supports the hybrid thin/thick model. Sensitive information should be handled in the thick client (or javascript in browser). One idea is the thick client could handle "verification" of 22k.io by providing a function to check localhost and public nodes (but not nxtbase nodes!).

4. I think it's best if this entire project would be handled as a community effort, with some kind of official sanctioning so that users know they can trust the extension/website.

I'll respectfully disagree on this point. NXT market adoption doesn't have time to wait this. My strategy is to build cool stuff and address trust issues as they arise. Sanctioning is implicit in adoption.

All code, both client side (browser extensions), as well as server side, should also be available for peer review, open-source and hosted on github. I haven't yet got word back from ferment on this.

I'm all for client stuff being open source. However, I would prefer to keep the "special sauce" closed and then open source libraries based on the work. I'm still trying to figure out how to make the NXTs off this work. If the community wants to invest, then open sourcing everything is certainly an option I'd consider. I have a 5 person dev/ops team at my disposal, but I can't pull them off paying gigs without revenue generation.

If we follow a model where security related things are always handled on the client side, then this shouldn't be an issue. If we follow a "trust, but verify" approach, the need for open sourcing as test of trustworthiness is not required (besides, I could run different code and not tell anyone).

5. We also need some kind of agreement on the json syntax and other new features.

My strategy is to just start defining stuff and implementing. If someone doesn't like the format, they're free to implement it differently.  History has shown that adoption is the best form of "agreement". Let the market decide.

So, would I propose, is that we start publishing an API and spec for 22k.io as we implement support for advanced alias features and other things.

Exciting stuff!

Cool, I'll start working soon on some proof of concept hybrid browser extension for you to review before I port it over to the other browsers.

Regarding your other remarks, these are valid. We'll keep the server-side source closed for now unless there is a major investment of some kind.

[landomata]

Regarding your other remarks, these are valid. We'll keep the server-side source closed for now unless there is a major investment of some kind.

Would you guys be interested in wrapping the server side source up in some form of NxtAlias Company....you could pitch the idea and see if the market would want to invest.

We do need a prototype for an IPO on the Nxt Asset Exchange....anyhow something to think about.