Largest weekend discount so far :)

[GeniuSxBoY]

Imagine walking down the street.

Between the time you left your house and the time you arrive at the store, your money vanishes out of your pocket.

Hmm. An invisible robber stole your money.

You have no leads, you have no idea how they did it or when they did it. You have no idea how to stop them because you don't know how they did it or what you did to let them do it. If you had known, you would have stopped it before it happened.


Even if you track your money by the serial number and find the money, you can't take the money back. You can't go to his house. You can't call the police. You can't ever get it back.



Now, you are smart. You deposit the coins in the bitcoin bank. Now you're not carrying anything and use your account to access the bank. Oh shit, an invisible robber just stole all the bank's bitcoins.

Now everyone's fucked!

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[piramida]

What? Nobody stole a single bitcoin off me or anybody else - anybody who deals with financials already and knows how to secure their computer. If you give attacker full access to your computer, you can as well kiss your bank money goodbye. You kids have to learn things the hard way I guess.

[Crazy]

Anyone that chalks up computer illiteracy as a strike against Bitcoin shouldn't be online to begin with... if your shit gets stolen by a virus, you fail at life; it says nothing about Bitcoin.

[Cluster2k]

Anyone that chalks up computer illiteracy as a strike against Bitcoin shouldn't be online to begin with... if your shit gets stolen by a virus, you fail at life; it says nothing about Bitcoin.

Try saying that after your computer gets pwned by a zero day exploit because you just happened to visit the wrong web site.  No need to download and install dodgy software, no need to click anything.  Software makers need several days to patch the hole while anyone is free to exploit it.  It doesn't happen often, but it most certainly happens.

[Crazy]

It's pretty hard to get hit by a 0day when you run NoScript, sandbox your browser, run a registry monitor, and the latest AV/antiMalware right? Just a matter of taking the necessary precautions. Granted most people won't run shit like I do because I browse around dodgy shit, but if you're storing a virtual cash currency on your PC, it'd probably be smart to treat it like you'd want your bank to treat your money.

And again, irregardless of the degree of 0day exposure, this doesn't speak to Bitcoin as a protocol and currency infrastructure. When you see hackers counterfeiting BTC, then people will have an argument.

[grod]

Seriously, our hardware and software stack is so tall now it's impossible to guarantee security.  With closed source hardware and software it's near impossible to prove there are no back doors installed for use by various gov't agencies or even the vendor.  Are you absolutely sure your camera drivers don't have a call home function for "support" and that feature won't be discovered and used by black hat guys?

My wife is an IT person.   She's been a computer geek and slinging code since she was six on an Atari 800.  We have a hardware firewall, she doesn't surf dodgy sites or install anything from the net and yet - her machine was pwned into being a botnet member.  Twice over 8 months.  One more incident for me, twice more at *work*, and another for my parents all over 3 years.

We've all been virus free for 18 months since then due to running 100% Linux instead of Windows, but that's not because Linux was written by gods.  But because it's less than 1% of the installed userbase.  We'd be getting 'pwned' all day long if Linux was 95%.  Back in 2000 I put a freshly installed copy of Red Hat on the net before I had a chance to lock down services and went to dinner.  By the time I came back it was already 'pwned' and running 'kokainekit.'

These are very personal anecdotes, but if you think your hardware and software solution is 100% secure and are willing to trust your entire financial wellbeing on that assumption -- well, you're just starting your voyage on the unsinkable Titanic.

[Crazy]

Lol, then you're doing it all wrong, trust me.

[wumpus]

Seriously, our hardware and software stack is so tall now it's impossible to guarantee security.  With closed source hardware and software it's near impossible to prove there are no back doors installed for use by various gov't agencies or even the vendor.  Are you absolutely sure your camera drivers don't have a call home function for "support" and that feature won't be discovered and used by black hat guys?

Yep, that's the niche for off-line wallet generators. If the private key never touches any internet-connected device before the coins are spent, you are perfectly secure. Storing large amount of coins on your computer (or phone) is a very bad idea indeed.

[Shinobi]

Lol, then you're doing it all wrong, trust me.

If he is, then so are many, many others. What you don't realize is that the success of Bitcoin is hinged on the ability of people other than pimple farming tech nerds like you being convinced of the utility of Bitcoin. Given that the "value" of Bitcoin (in terms of USD as it really has no inherent value at all, despite all the libertarian claims otherwise) is derived from its use as a commodity to day-trade with, there is no possible incentive for regular folks - who don't need or want to have to master the innards of computer security in order to "protect" their investment - to use these things. Bitcoin is currently for the cash-poor and time-rich, those who see nothing wrong wuth (1) spending hours watching MtGoxLive in hopes of being able to make a small margin on some volatility or (2) run 18 graphics cards with fans blowing in their dorm room.

Most people's time is more valuable than that, and these are the people - whether you like it or not - who have the money to make Bitcoin something more than the technerd's casino that it currently is. Making statements like "if you can't protect your bitcoin, you deserve to lose it" reeks of the adolescent mentality most of you have.

[Crazy]

Lol, then you're doing it all wrong, trust me.

If he is, then so are many, many others. What you don't realize is that the success of Bitcoin is hinged on the ability of people other than pimple farming tech nerds like you being convinced of the utility of Bitcoin.

...

Making statements like "if you can't protect your bitcoin, you deserve to lose it" reeks of the adolescent mentality most of you have.

Get owned lately? Sounding real emotional, like a female. You a female?

[Shinobi]

That's your response to anything over your head, eh? The only emotional response was yours, little one.
No, I haven't been "owned" as I cashed out of Bitcoin awhile ago. As isaidin another post, I am here because I am fascinated by the various reactions to Bitcoin as it slowly implodes. The rabid zealotry, the poorly thought-out libertarian drivel, the this-is-only-for-the-hardcore line of thought (this is where you fit in), and lastly the reactions of people waking up to the fact that Bitcoin is just the modern-day Beanie-baby. It's the last group that I most enjoy seeing posts from.

Lol, then you're doing it all wrong, trust me.

If he is, then so are many, many others. What you don't realize is that the success of Bitcoin is hinged on the ability of people other than pimple farming tech nerds like you being convinced of the utility of Bitcoin.

...

Making statements like "if you can't protect your bitcoin, you deserve to lose it" reeks of the adolescent mentality most of you have.

Get owned lately? Sounding real emotional, like a female. You a female?

[skyhigh]

OP I hope you will wire as much as you can and bank on this $15 target. We need as many as we can get to put money where their mouth is. Every bull should be buying or adding at this discounted prices. If it was me, I would add more than I'm willing to lose, because $15 from $8 is worth the risk. Your math skills must be wicked !

[Nagle]

Proof to backup your claim that people are withdrawing money?

No one can offer proof on that without violating trust in the exchanges.

In the real world, brokerages do disclose periodically how much total cash they have in customer accounts. That number appears in quarterly financial statements, and it's necessary to keep them honest. It's not a number that's disclosed daily, though.

[Crazy]

That's your response to anything over your head, eh? The only emotional response was yours, little one.
No, I haven't been "owned" as I cashed out of Bitcoin awhile ago. As isaidin another post, I am here because I am fascinated by the various reactions to Bitcoin as it slowly implodes. The rabid zealotry, the poorly thought-out libertarian drivel, the this-is-only-for-the-hardcore line of thought (this is where you fit in), and lastly the reactions of people waking up to the fact that Bitcoin is just the modern-day Beanie-baby. It's the last group that I most enjoy seeing posts from.

Yeah, you're a female.

[Shinobi]

Little child, you'll learn.

That's your response to anything over your head, eh? The only emotional response was yours, little one.
No, I haven't been "owned" as I cashed out of Bitcoin awhile ago. As isaidin another post, I am here because I am fascinated by the various reactions to Bitcoin as it slowly implodes. The rabid zealotry, the poorly thought-out libertarian drivel, the this-is-only-for-the-hardcore line of thought (this is where you fit in), and lastly the reactions of people waking up to the fact that Bitcoin is just the modern-day Beanie-baby. It's the last group that I most enjoy seeing posts from.

Yeah, you're a female.

[Crazy]

Was hoping for another paragraph rant from "Shinobi"

[grod]

Yeah, you're a female.

It takes no effort to become a lol-punctuating script kiddie, just spend lots of time in the right IRC channels.  The guys finding the exploits are brilliant, I have nothing but respect for them.  The skids infesting grandma's machine with botnet malware not so much.

And you utterly missed my point.   If a successful IT pro is "doing it wrong" what hope does Mr. Joe Average have?  It's interesting that you accuse Shinobi of being a woman with the implication that women are too stupid to use computers and by extension bitcoin.  There goes 55% of your target market if not more.

Anyay, back to my personal anecdote.  Between the two of us we've delivered everything from ICU hardware (ventillators, cardiac monitors, etc) to Mars mission planning software to phone switches to brokerage middleware.  I'm going out on a limb to say our ability to learn and understand things programmable is a bit more advanced than most.  And yet, in spite of taking *reasonable* precautions we still got 'pwned' by skids.

There's a spectrum between perfect security and perfect convenience.  The problem with providing the extreme level of security needed to feel good about keeping more than a trivial amount of money in bitcoins the coinvenience is waaaaaay outside what your average scrub like myself will put up with.

Until user friendly front ends complete with *reversible transactions* to deal with people's mistakes as well as fraud you won't have mainstream dogpiling on this.  And without mainstream it'll remain a fun and quirky niche product -- not that there's anything wrong with that.  Just saying you may wish to temper your expectation of explosive price growth just yet.

[grod]

Yep, that's the niche for off-line wallet generators. If the private key never touches any internet-connected device before the coins are spent, you are perfectly secure. Storing large amount of coins on your computer (or phone) is a very bad idea indeed.

And that's part two of the problem.  Reliability.  100% reliability is impossible.  And if it was, cost approaches infinity as reliability approaches 100%.  So you bring in redundancy to reduce your odds of total loss.  But redundancy increases the odds of theft or error.

USB drives fail.  DVDs fail.  Magnetic media?  Consumer grade electronics?  Laughable.  About the only way to secure your private key is to etch it on several pieces of stainless steel and lock them in separate vaults.  But then usability rears its ugly head again.  And there is the possibility of someone taking a photo of it while you access it yourself...

[Anduril]

Lol, then you're doing it all wrong, trust me.

If he is, then so are many, many others. What you don't realize is that the success of Bitcoin is hinged on the ability of people other than pimple farming tech nerds like you being convinced of the utility of Bitcoin. Given that the "value" of Bitcoin (in terms of USD as it really has no inherent value at all, despite all the libertarian claims otherwise) is derived from its use as a commodity to day-trade with, there is no possible incentive for regular folks - who don't need or want to have to master the innards of computer security in order to "protect" their investment - to use these things. Bitcoin is currently for the cash-poor and time-rich, those who see nothing wrong wuth (1) spending hours watching MtGoxLive in hopes of being able to make a small margin on some volatility or (2) run 18 graphics cards with fans blowing in their dorm room.

Most people's time is more valuable than that, and these are the people - whether you like it or not - who have the money to make Bitcoin something more than the technerd's casino that it currently is. Making statements like "if you can't protect your bitcoin, you deserve to lose it" reeks of the adolescent mentality most of you have.

+1 . The "blame the victim" crowd don't understand that they need mainstream users to get Bitcoin to lift-off as they want to.

[Anduril]

Get owned lately? Sounding real emotional, like a female. You a female?

Ah, a misogynistic teenager. Bet the girls pick on you at school.