Bitcoin simply cannot replace fiat

[deisik]

Probably I would be if I weren't still pissed off at Steve Jobs for not giving me my credit for inventing the ipod. Thought I'd at least get a deathbed confession. Such is life. We all miss a thousand opportunities a day, were I in this thing I would be pretty sketched out, opaque exchanges with long exit queues are not my cup of tea. But 'doing nothing' is terribly inaccurate, Banks printing themselves $85 billion a month, because they wrote themselves a law that says they can, that is much closer to nothing. People took risk, which isn't nothing, and spent time, which also isn't nothing, free markets drive capital where it already wants to go. No shame in profits.

I know, it's called an inventor's premium (or something like that), so no remorse either (I was not among the first early adopters). But for ordinary folks it looks like something along those lines really. You could have mined thousands of Bitcoins using crapware which would have made you a millionaire today. That's what people would think...

[deisik]

As for Gresham's Law you're probably right, with the open question that should apply to all economic theory at this point...are we moving forward or backward. The internet has already killed a swathe of "laws". I'll reserve judgment until I am better informed.

Gresham's Law withstood centuries if not millennia. The Frogs will confirm, if you know what I mean. I don't think it is among that swathe of "laws" which Internet has already killed or will ever kill. It's rooted deep down inside human nature, and I doubt it strongly Internet (or anything for that matter) will ever be able to change that...

[AnonyMint]

http://www.lewrockwell.com/2013/05/robert-wenzel/whats-ahead-for-bitcoin/

[deisik]

http://www.lewrockwell.com/2013/05/robert-wenzel/whats-ahead-for-bitcoin/

Ghandi said that first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win, therefore Bitcoin will succeed

When they first kill you, then... well, then there will be no "then"...

[LostDutchman]

http://letstalkbitcoin.com/bitcoin-simply-cannot-replace-fiat/#.UpmkkcRpmEw

Yes or no? What do you think?

I am in 100% agreement with the author and his premise.

BTC is best left as an underground currency to be used by those who will become the new financial elite.

My $.02.

[bryant.coleman]

Have you people heard about the news from Alderney?

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/4903fc9a-591f-11e3-a7cb-00144feabdc0.html\

If this experiment is successful, then BTC CAN replace fiat!

[jballs]

Have you people heard about the news from Alderney?

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/4903fc9a-591f-11e3-a7cb-00144feabdc0.html\

If this experiment is successful, then BTC CAN replace fiat!

An independent company will provide the Bitcoins. If the price plunged, neither Alderney nor the Royal Mint would lose anything.
 
The company would put the Bitcoins in an escrow account at an agreed price.
 
Meanwhile, the Royal Mint would take customers’ orders for its minted Bitcoins and receive money from those coin sales.
 
The virtual Bitcoins backing the physical coins would be held in digital storage facilities by Alderney.
 
The Mint would issue the commemorative Bitcoin, paying for the value of the gold content itself. Alderney would receive royalties from sales of the coins.
 
Coins could be redeemed for sterling at any point in Alderney for the price of a Bitcoin on that day.
All we can do at this point is sit back in wonder and amusement as we hit the pinnacle of monetary confusion, whereby the UK Royal Mint, willing to take full advantage of retail confusion, will mix hard, soft and digital currency, and produce a product... that is locked away on an island that belongs to the UK.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-01/uk-royal-mint-working-plans-issue-gold-backed-physical-bitcoins
-----------

Hahahhahahhaahhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahaha.

Sorry that sounds like the worst of all worlds to my untrained ear.

[User705]

http://letstalkbitcoin.com/bitcoin-simply-cannot-replace-fiat/#.UpmkkcRpmEw

Yes or no? What do you think?

I am in 100% agreement with the author and his premise.

BTC is best left as an underground currency to be used by those who will become the new financial elite.

My $.02.

How would one become financial elite but be underground?

[deisik]

I am in 100% agreement with the author and his premise.

BTC is best left as an underground currency to be used by those who will become the new financial elite.

My $.02.

How would one become financial elite but be underground?

The power is not bestowed, it is taken, in most cases by force. Those who will become the new financial elite would have to somehow get rid of the old one in the first place. The old one will indeed resist this in every way possible and try to nip in the bud anything threatening their power. These things have been very well known since Pharaohs and Ancient Rome...

[jballs]

http://letstalkbitcoin.com/bitcoin-simply-cannot-replace-fiat/#.UpmkkcRpmEw

Yes or no? What do you think?

I am in 100% agreement with the author and his premise.

BTC is best left as an underground currency to be used by those who will become the new financial elite.

My $.02.

How would one become financial elite but be underground?

Name 5 of the 10 largest shareholders of the Federal Reserve

Hint

#1 Satoshi Naka.....  (actually probably not. You're on your own.)



(edit- feel free to use google, phone a friend, call the Fed...anything you like. 10 BTC if you can name 5 of them.)

[TheButterZone]

Name 5 of the 10 largest shareholders of the Federal Reserve

Hint

#1 Satoshi Naka.....  (actually probably not. You're on your own.)

(edit- feel free to use google, phone a friend, call the Fed...anything you like. 10 BTC if you can name 5 of them.)

http://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_14986.htm

The 12 regional Federal Reserve Banks, which were established by the Congress as the operating arms of the nation's central banking system, are organized similarly to private corporations--possibly leading to some confusion about "ownership." For example, the Reserve Banks issue shares of stock to member banks.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h41/current/
9. Statement of Condition of Each Federal Reserve Bank, November 27, 2013

shows each regional reserve bank, but you probably mean the end shareholders, which are the member banks below:

http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/lbr/current/default.htm
(in millions, so #1 would be $1.947794e+12 USD, for example)
JPMORGAN CHASE BK NA/JPMORGAN CHASE & CO    1    852218    COLUMBUS, OH    NAT    1,947,794
BANK OF AMER NA/BANK OF AMER CORP    2    480228    CHARLOTTE, NC    NAT    1,429,737
CITIBANK NA/CITIGROUP    3    476810    SIOUX FALLS, SD    NAT    1,319,359
WELLS FARGO BK NA/WELLS FARGO & CO    4    451965    SIOUX FALLS, SD    NAT    1,284,538
U S BK NA/U S BC    5    504713    CINCINNATI, OH    NAT    349,333

Don't have enough time to parse the foreign banks below but I'm not seeing any in the major allies over 349,333 million USD.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/iba/201303/bycntry.htm
Structure Data for the U.S. Offices of Foreign Banking Organizations

[LostDutchman]

http://letstalkbitcoin.com/bitcoin-simply-cannot-replace-fiat/#.UpmkkcRpmEw

Yes or no? What do you think?

I am in 100% agreement with the author and his premise.

BTC is best left as an underground currency to be used by those who will become the new financial elite.

My $.02.

How would one become financial elite but be underground?

Holding corporations, offshore accounts; offshore from USA anyway in countries which do not respect US currency laws (And there are a few!), VPS through TOR, anonymous debiet cards, cash transactions for crypto................................

Shall I go on?

You don't go to the club and buy hose rounds, thereby drawing attention to yourself.

You can buy Armani suits but cut out the labels.

You don't need a USD $3 million mansion; you only need a nice place to live.

As athe business agent for a corporation; any corporation you can reeceive a hefty salary, pay taxes on that and yet reap a gazillion corporate benefits.

Tax evasion?

Maybe but how much of your money to you want to send to a government to fight illegal wars?

Money laundering?

Any transaction the US government doesn't like can be called "money laundering".

The government has broken the social contract so in my opinion, whatever you do to protect yourself from that fiolation is fine by me!

Beleive me, there are ways to be very, very wealthy and completely off the radar.

My $.02.

[jballs]

Name 5 of the 10 largest shareholders of the Federal Reserve

Hint

#1 Satoshi Naka.....  (actually probably not. You're on your own.)

(edit- feel free to use google, phone a friend, call the Fed...anything you like. 10 BTC if you can name 5 of them.)

http://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_14986.htm

The 12 regional Federal Reserve Banks, which were established by the Congress as the operating arms of the nation's central banking system, are organized similarly to private corporations--possibly leading to some confusion about "ownership." For example, the Reserve Banks issue shares of stock to member banks.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h41/current/
9. Statement of Condition of Each Federal Reserve Bank, November 27, 2013

shows each regional reserve bank, but you probably mean the end shareholders, which are the member banks below:

http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/lbr/current/default.htm
(in millions, so #1 would be $1.947794e+12 USD, for example)
JPMORGAN CHASE BK NA/JPMORGAN CHASE & CO    1    852218    COLUMBUS, OH    NAT    1,947,794
BANK OF AMER NA/BANK OF AMER CORP    2    480228    CHARLOTTE, NC    NAT    1,429,737
CITIBANK NA/CITIGROUP    3    476810    SIOUX FALLS, SD    NAT    1,319,359
WELLS FARGO BK NA/WELLS FARGO & CO    4    451965    SIOUX FALLS, SD    NAT    1,284,538
U S BK NA/U S BC    5    504713    CINCINNATI, OH    NAT    349,333

Don't have enough time to parse the foreign banks below but I'm not seeing any in the major allies over 349,333 million USD.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/iba/201303/bycntry.htm
Structure Data for the U.S. Offices of Foreign Banking Organizations

Yes that makes it all less opaque doesn't it.

So to answer the question, you incorporate as Bitcoinbehemoth Monstrosity NA, write covenants into your charter, hold the preferred stock with voting rights in the family vault, float a billion shares to the masses to stuff in their pension funds, completely diffusing any illusion of control over the entity, and hire a few lobbyists to buy the current government stooges and make sure they don't rock your boat.

If that was your objective, I mean.

[TheButterZone]

Name 5 of the 10 largest shareholders of the Federal Reserve

Hint

#1 Satoshi Naka.....  (actually probably not. You're on your own.)

(edit- feel free to use google, phone a friend, call the Fed...anything you like. 10 BTC if you can name 5 of them.)

http://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_14986.htm

The 12 regional Federal Reserve Banks, which were established by the Congress as the operating arms of the nation's central banking system, are organized similarly to private corporations--possibly leading to some confusion about "ownership." For example, the Reserve Banks issue shares of stock to member banks.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h41/current/
9. Statement of Condition of Each Federal Reserve Bank, November 27, 2013

shows each regional reserve bank, but you probably mean the end shareholders, which are the member banks below:

http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/lbr/current/default.htm
(in millions, so #1 would be $1.947794e+12 USD, for example)
JPMORGAN CHASE BK NA/JPMORGAN CHASE & CO    1    852218    COLUMBUS, OH    NAT    1,947,794
BANK OF AMER NA/BANK OF AMER CORP    2    480228    CHARLOTTE, NC    NAT    1,429,737
CITIBANK NA/CITIGROUP    3    476810    SIOUX FALLS, SD    NAT    1,319,359
WELLS FARGO BK NA/WELLS FARGO & CO    4    451965    SIOUX FALLS, SD    NAT    1,284,538
U S BK NA/U S BC    5    504713    CINCINNATI, OH    NAT    349,333

Don't have enough time to parse the foreign banks below but I'm not seeing any in the major allies over 349,333 million USD.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/iba/201303/bycntry.htm
Structure Data for the U.S. Offices of Foreign Banking Organizations

Yes that makes it all less opaque doesn't it.

So to answer the question, you incorporate as Bitcoinbehemoth Monstrosity NA, write covenants into your charter, hold the preferred stock with voting rights in the family vault, float a billion shares to the masses to stuff in their pension funds, completely diffusing any illusion of control over the entity, and hire a few lobbyists to buy the current government stooges and make sure they don't rock your boat.

If that was your objective, I mean.

Seems transparent and question-answered to me, unless 1) those 5 aren't the largest shareholders/member banks and there are actually foreign banks with more, and I just need to parse the bycntry.htm list more closely 2) your definition of "shareholders" isn't the Fed's definition of shareholders, and you want to get even more granular and meant to ask "Name 5 of the 10 largest depositors into the Federal Reserve shareholder/member banks?" Which is a question that only the government could legally both ask and answer itself about. If I were one of those people, I wouldn't want anyone to fucking know, government or no government.

Name 5 of the 10 largest shareholders of the Federal Reserve... 10 BTC if you can name 5 of them.

1BUTRZ85L1JuoX5y2XRjxJaYcjcMLhPJcY

Don't offer up bounties if you're not going to pay.

[jballs]

Name 5 of the 10 largest shareholders of the Federal Reserve

Hint

#1 Satoshi Naka.....  (actually probably not. You're on your own.)

(edit- feel free to use google, phone a friend, call the Fed...anything you like. 10 BTC if you can name 5 of them.)

http://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_14986.htm

The 12 regional Federal Reserve Banks, which were established by the Congress as the operating arms of the nation's central banking system, are organized similarly to private corporations--possibly leading to some confusion about "ownership." For example, the Reserve Banks issue shares of stock to member banks.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h41/current/
9. Statement of Condition of Each Federal Reserve Bank, November 27, 2013

shows each regional reserve bank, but you probably mean the end shareholders, which are the member banks below:

http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/lbr/current/default.htm
(in millions, so #1 would be $1.947794e+12 USD, for example)
JPMORGAN CHASE BK NA/JPMORGAN CHASE & CO    1    852218    COLUMBUS, OH    NAT    1,947,794
BANK OF AMER NA/BANK OF AMER CORP    2    480228    CHARLOTTE, NC    NAT    1,429,737
CITIBANK NA/CITIGROUP    3    476810    SIOUX FALLS, SD    NAT    1,319,359
WELLS FARGO BK NA/WELLS FARGO & CO    4    451965    SIOUX FALLS, SD    NAT    1,284,538
U S BK NA/U S BC    5    504713    CINCINNATI, OH    NAT    349,333

Don't have enough time to parse the foreign banks below but I'm not seeing any in the major allies over 349,333 million USD.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/iba/201303/bycntry.htm
Structure Data for the U.S. Offices of Foreign Banking Organizations

Yes that makes it all less opaque doesn't it.

So to answer the question, you incorporate as Bitcoinbehemoth Monstrosity NA, write covenants into your charter, hold the preferred stock with voting rights in the family vault, float a billion shares to the masses to stuff in their pension funds, completely diffusing any illusion of control over the entity, and hire a few lobbyists to buy the current government stooges and make sure they don't rock your boat.

If that was your objective, I mean.

Name 5 of the 10 largest shareholders of the Federal Reserve... 10 BTC if you can name 5 of them.

Seems transparent and question-answered to me, unless 1) those 5 aren't the largest shareholders/member banks and there are actually foreign banks with more, and I just need to parse the bycntry.htm list more closely 2) your definition of "shareholders" isn't the Fed's definition of shareholders, and you want to get even more granular and meant to ask "Name 5 of the 10 largest depositors into the Federal Reserve shareholder/member banks?" Which is a question that only the government could legally both ask and answer itself about. If I were one of those people, I wouldn't want anyone to fucking know, government or no government.

1BUTRZ85L1JuoX5y2XRjxJaYcjcMLhPJcY

Don't offer up bounties if you're not going to pay.

Names of institutions are not names of people. If you gave your handle to someone else I would be having this conversation with someine else now and have no idea.

That was not the topic. I am well aware for the structure of the Fed. If you want to spilt hairs there is no fed. It is the collective vault of its member companies. Who have of late sent their representatives to their board meetings to decide the best way to help everyone is to print themselves $85 cash every month, and keep it all for themselves, and pay themselves interest on their reserves.

Working out well for them.

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/WRESBAL/

But no you did not answer my question.

I'd welch anyways that's a lot of money for a trivia question.

[TheButterZone]

To hazard a guess, assuming they didn't sell out, the largest shareholders will be the descendants/heirs of all the founders of each one of those 5 banks above, including all the banks they partnered/merged with.

Family money and genealogy isn't some vast conspiracy.

Lame.

[qwerty555]

It was Rothschild / Rockerfeller  et al

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-federal-reserve-cartel-the-eight-families

http://land.netonecom.net/tlp/ref/federal_reserve.shtml

http://www.2012.com.au/Federal_Reserve.html

Some names

) Lord Jacob de Rothschild.
2) Son Nathaniel.
3) Baron John de Rothschild, who recently said they’re working towards global governance. (NOTE: The Rothschild Dynasty is worth some 500 Trillion dollars. Just about half the world’s wealth)
4) Sir Evelyn de Rothschild.
5) David Rockefeller, Sr. who’s son Nick, while making him an offer for Nevada Governorship, told film director Aaron Russo (now deceased ) about 9/11 in advance. (Refuse a Rockefeller order, and you may end up dead). (NOTE: The Rockefeller dynasty controls over 100 Trillion dollars)
6) Nathan Warburg, whose family, was not only instrumental in creating the treasonous Federal Reserve, but along

[jballs]

To hazard a guess, assuming they didn't sell out, the largest shareholders will be the descendants/heirs of all the founders of each one of those 5 banks above, including all the banks they partnered/merged with.

Family money and genealogy isn't some vast conspiracy.

Lame.

I make no claims of a conspiracy. Just facts.

1. Printing currency is illegal
2. Banks have an exemption to this law
3. Any debt based currency will have more debt than money, therefore
4. The creditors will always be owed more than there is, therefore,
5. Most people will always be indebted (i.e. poor) and
6. Those with the printing exemption will never be indebted (i.e. rich)

No conspiracy. Just a fucked system that was fine 500 years ago but it can go now. I don't really care who they are. I do know they will do anything to keep their exemption, and have managed quite well to do so, which is not surprising given the nature of the exemption. But I do think that if they had a name and a face, people would be more inclined to ask what is so special about them to have this exemption. So they hide behind stone pillars and bricks and call it an institution. But it's just people with laws written to entitle them. Undoubtedly "family  money", but really family laws. All the money in the FR system went away in '08, they held a negative reserve balance. So they made new rules, and created new money, which is the chart above.

I'd like to be able to do that too but I am not permitted to. Though bitcoin... close.

[LostDutchman]

It was Rothschild / Rockerfeller  et al

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-federal-reserve-cartel-the-eight-families

http://land.netonecom.net/tlp/ref/federal_reserve.shtml

http://www.2012.com.au/Federal_Reserve.html

Some names

) Lord Jacob de Rothschild.
2) Son Nathaniel.
3) Baron John de Rothschild, who recently said they’re working towards global governance. (NOTE: The Rothschild Dynasty is worth some 500 Trillion dollars. Just about half the world’s wealth)
4) Sir Evelyn de Rothschild.
5) David Rockefeller, Sr. who’s son Nick, while making him an offer for Nevada Governorship, told film director Aaron Russo (now deceased ) about 9/11 in advance. (Refuse a Rockefeller order, and you may end up dead). (NOTE: The Rockefeller dynasty controls over 100 Trillion dollars)
6) Nathan Warburg, whose family, was not only instrumental in creating the treasonous Federal Reserve, but along

You are a wise man Grasshopper.

My $.02.

[niothor]

It was Rothschild / Rockerfeller  et al

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-federal-reserve-cartel-the-eight-families

http://land.netonecom.net/tlp/ref/federal_reserve.shtml

http://www.2012.com.au/Federal_Reserve.html

Some names

) Lord Jacob de Rothschild.
2) Son Nathaniel.
3) Baron John de Rothschild, who recently said they’re working towards global governance. (NOTE: The Rothschild Dynasty is worth some 500 Trillion dollars. Just about half the world’s wealth)
4) Sir Evelyn de Rothschild.
5) David Rockefeller, Sr. who’s son Nick, while making him an offer for Nevada Governorship, told film director Aaron Russo (now deceased ) about 9/11 in advance. (Refuse a Rockefeller order, and you may end up dead). (NOTE: The Rockefeller dynasty controls over 100 Trillion dollars)
6) Nathan Warburg, whose family, was not only instrumental in creating the treasonous Federal Reserve, but along
7) Sakamoto Rothschild , known for the most diabolical invention in human history B....n

Just saying