Who was first with 28nm?

[sickpig]

I am not sure what KnC did or didn't do that caused you to be so negative about them.

Hm? I'm not that negative, as far as I can tell a lot of people are perfectly happy with them. When I communicated with them they couldn't keep a consistent story and it made we wary, but I'm glad other people are happy with them. I'm personally not all that happy with any of the major hardware companies right now, I'm concerned that their business practices have not been doing the ecosystem well, but thats neither here nor there and KNC is certainly not the worst of it.

versus 1W/Gh for KnC (Oct Batch pre-0.98 firmware)

Go update the mining hardware comparison as it's claiming 2.5w/Gh, if thats wrong then I retract my whining.

data just taken from a running October Jupiter running latest firmware hashing 562.86 Gh/s at the pool:



that means more or less 530 watts for the 4 asic boards. Add to that a few more for the BBB and the controller board and we could get something like 560-70 at the wall.

so roughly we have ~ 1w/GHs

[1715294787]

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[danielbrogren]

virtualminingcorp.com

was the first. Check the details guys.

Have they done the delivery?

[xstr8guy]

virtualminingcorp.com

was the first. Check the details guys.

Have they done the delivery?

VMC delivered?  No!  Maybe they announced first but as far as I know they are still months away (if ever) from delivery.  I have no idea what tiaguitah is smoking.

[Wesly]

Hm? I'm not that negative, as far as I can tell a lot of people are perfectly happy with them. When I communicated with them they couldn't keep a consistent story and it made we wary, but I'm glad other people are happy with them. I'm personally not all that happy with any of the major hardware companies right now, I'm concerned that their business practices have not been doing the ecosystem well, but thats neither here nor there and KNC is certainly not the worst of it.

I agree KnC can certainly improve the speed and quality of their communication.  However, their support is still light year ahead of Avalon and BFL.  The current state of ASIC hardware companies are all primarily community driven and depend on us within the community to support each other.  I don't see that changing any time soon with the accelerated speed of development, the people with the most knowledge about the products will be those who own and run it since Day 1.  KnC did handled my RMA pretty well, paid for express shipping both ways and 5 days turnaround from the time the bad board going out to receiving the replacement board.

versus 1W/Gh for KnC (Oct Batch pre-0.98 firmware)

Go update the mining hardware comparison as it's claiming 2.5w/Gh, if thats wrong then I retract my whining.

That website made a mathematical error.  They listed the Jupiter as using 600W and Hash at 500,000 Mhash/s, so the Mhash/J should be 500,000/600 = 833 (or 1.2W/Gh), but the Mhash/J figure was incorrectly listed as 400Mhash/J or 2.5W/Gh.  On my old Oct batch Jupiter with firmware 0.96 and all 4 ASIC with 8 VRM, I was hashing at 550Gh/s while using 545 Watts on the wall with a Seasonic 80Plus Platinum PSU, which is around 1 W/Gh.  I understand newly redesigned Nov batch KnC ASIC boards are more power hungry but also hash faster at a cost to the efficiency.  The actual figure is still way less than 2W/Gh.


Product    Mhash/s    Mhash/J    Mhash/s/$    Watts
KnC Jupiter    500,000    400        80        600w

[VinceSamios]

virtualminingcorp.com

was the first. Check the details guys.

Have they done the delivery?

VMC delivered?  No!  Maybe they announced first but as far as I know they are still months away (if ever) from delivery.  I have no idea what tiaguitah is smoking.

They announced shipping last week - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=297543.msg3782916#msg3782916

[xstr8guy]

virtualminingcorp.com

was the first. Check the details guys.

Have they done the delivery?

VMC delivered?  No!  Maybe they announced first but as far as I know they are still months away (if ever) from delivery.  I have no idea what tiaguitah is smoking.

They announced shipping last week - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=297543.msg3782916#msg3782916

Absolute bullshit!  Did you even read the release?  If you read the next paragraph it says something like "the chips are going to be late".  I don't see how they could have shipped product if that was true... unless they are selling "other" product, perhaps Bitfury clones, t-shirts, "hang in there kitty" posters.

[xstr8guy]

virtualminingcorp.com

was the first. Check the details guys.

Have they done the delivery?

VMC delivered?  No!  Maybe they announced first but as far as I know they are still months away (if ever) from delivery.  I have no idea what tiaguitah is smoking.

They announced shipping last week - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=297543.msg3782916#msg3782916

And even if they started shipping as stated in the PR on Nov 30th, it would make them a FULL month later than KNC.  Certainly not first, as tiaguitah stated!

Seriously, what kind of blatant VMC shilling is going on here?  Is someone trying to con newbies into preordering from VMC?  Go ahead and try to find the VMC thread(s) in the Custom Hardware subforum.  Chances are that no one has posted in days.  I give VMC about a 30% of delivering a functioning ASIC.

Pfft!

[VinceSamios]

virtualminingcorp.com

was the first. Check the details guys.

Have they done the delivery?

VMC delivered?  No!  Maybe they announced first but as far as I know they are still months away (if ever) from delivery.  I have no idea what tiaguitah is smoking.

They announced shipping last week - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=297543.msg3782916#msg3782916

And even if they started shipping as stated in the PR on Nov 30th, it would make them a FULL month later than KNC.  Certainly not first, as tiaguitah stated!

Seriously, what kind of blatant VMC shilling is going on here?  Is someone trying to con newbies into preordering from VMC?  Go ahead and try to find the VMC thread(s) in the Custom Hardware subforum.  Chances are that no one has posted in days.  I give VMC about a 30% of delivering a functioning ASIC.

Pfft!

The bulk chips are delayed - they've already delivered a working ASIC. I'm not sure about who was first, KNC has been much more public about it than VMC.

[thoughtcourier]

I was with Sam from KnC a few days ago

KnC's inability to tell a consistent story was one of the reasons I happily chose to not to business with them. They've clearly stated both before and after product production that it was a structured asic run, and their power results support it. Ultimately it doesn't matter if they used crackerjack boxes to make their masks, at the end what matters is the specs and they're a mixed story. I mean, sure, feel free to not care.  But a 2x increase in operating cost, and thermal load is not "a few watts", especially for those of us not interested in a high risk gamble involving mining for a few months and then throwing the hardware out.

By all means, be happy with their product— they shipped a working device to many people mostly on time, better than a lot of other vendors, and many of those customers will be happy enough with a product that goes to the landfill before the bitfury and bitmain devices. Though in terms of feature size I don't see a reason to brag about 28nm when it doesn't achieve substantially better hashrate per U or hashrate per watt even close to multiple competing 55nm designs.

I am very happy with my KNC hardware, but I do have some questions for those who have been keeping up with KnC so I can properly evaluate their promises:

I assume the extra hashrate over the promise came from overclocking (400 -> 550) and overvolting (550 -> 650). Power consumption likewise had to increase at least linearly, but likely exponentially ( -> 600 -> 850).

So if this is correct, what's the news on underclocking/undervolting firmware or tuning API?

Would you have egg on your face if after some min-maxing, machines can run and say... 800 MH/J? Or rather, at what efficiency would you have egg on your face?

[Biffa]

I was with Sam from KnC a few days ago

KnC's inability to tell a consistent story was one of the reasons I happily chose to not to business with them. They've clearly stated both before and after product production that it was a structured asic run, and their power results support it. Ultimately it doesn't matter if they used crackerjack boxes to make their masks, at the end what matters is the specs and they're a mixed story. I mean, sure, feel free to not care.  But a 2x increase in operating cost, and thermal load is not "a few watts", especially for those of us not interested in a high risk gamble involving mining for a few months and then throwing the hardware out.

By all means, be happy with their product— they shipped a working device to many people mostly on time, better than a lot of other vendors, and many of those customers will be happy enough with a product that goes to the landfill before the bitfury and bitmain devices. Though in terms of feature size I don't see a reason to brag about 28nm when it doesn't achieve substantially better hashrate per U or hashrate per watt even close to multiple competing 55nm designs.

I am very happy with my KNC hardware, but I do have some questions for those who have been keeping up with KnC so I can properly evaluate their promises:

I assume the extra hashrate over the promise came from overclocking (400 -> 550) and overvolting (550 -> 650). Power consumption likewise had to increase at least linearly, but likely exponentially ( -> 600 -> 850).

So if this is correct, what's the news on underclocking/undervolting firmware or tuning API?

Would you have egg on your face if after some min-maxing, machines can run and say... 800 MH/J? Or rather, at what efficiency would you have egg on your face?

Tuning is currently only available for Batch1 (October) models. Although its expected soon for the November batch

[xstr8guy]

I was with Sam from KnC a few days ago

KnC's inability to tell a consistent story was one of the reasons I happily chose to not to business with them. They've clearly stated both before and after product production that it was a structured asic run, and their power results support it. Ultimately it doesn't matter if they used crackerjack boxes to make their masks, at the end what matters is the specs and they're a mixed story. I mean, sure, feel free to not care.  But a 2x increase in operating cost, and thermal load is not "a few watts", especially for those of us not interested in a high risk gamble involving mining for a few months and then throwing the hardware out.

By all means, be happy with their product— they shipped a working device to many people mostly on time, better than a lot of other vendors, and many of those customers will be happy enough with a product that goes to the landfill before the bitfury and bitmain devices. Though in terms of feature size I don't see a reason to brag about 28nm when it doesn't achieve substantially better hashrate per U or hashrate per watt even close to multiple competing 55nm designs.

I am very happy with my KNC hardware, but I do have some questions for those who have been keeping up with KnC so I can properly evaluate their promises:

I assume the extra hashrate over the promise came from overclocking (400 -> 550) and overvolting (550 -> 650). Power consumption likewise had to increase at least linearly, but likely exponentially ( -> 600 -> 850).

So if this is correct, what's the news on underclocking/undervolting firmware or tuning API?

Would you have egg on your face if after some min-maxing, machines can run and say... 800 MH/J? Or rather, at what efficiency would you have egg on your face?

There's a 1200+ page thread discussing KNC in great detail that answers all of questions.  I know it's hard to find since it's been hiding way up at the top of the forum for several months. It's located here...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.0

A good place to start is page one.  Enjoy!

[xstr8guy]

virtualminingcorp.com

was the first. Check the details guys.

Have they done the delivery?

VMC delivered?  No!  Maybe they announced first but as far as I know they are still months away (if ever) from delivery.  I have no idea what tiaguitah is smoking.

They announced shipping last week - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=297543.msg3782916#msg3782916

And even if they started shipping as stated in the PR on Nov 30th, it would make them a FULL month later than KNC.  Certainly not first, as tiaguitah stated!

Seriously, what kind of blatant VMC shilling is going on here?  Is someone trying to con newbies into preordering from VMC?  Go ahead and try to find the VMC thread(s) in the Custom Hardware subforum.  Chances are that no one has posted in days.  I give VMC about a 30% of delivering a functioning ASIC.

Pfft!

The bulk chips are delayed - they've already delivered a working ASIC. I'm not sure about who was first, KNC has been much more public about it than VMC.

So a quote from VMC saying "we delivered" is enough proof for you?  Hmmm, I would like just a little more.  A single person's hands-on account of their experience with their VMC ASIC would be nice.  Oh maybe they just released a single unit to one very shy guy.  Yep, that must be it.

 

[thoughtcourier]

I was with Sam from KnC a few days ago

KnC's inability to tell a consistent story was one of the reasons I happily chose to not to business with them. They've clearly stated both before and after product production that it was a structured asic run, and their power results support it. Ultimately it doesn't matter if they used crackerjack boxes to make their masks, at the end what matters is the specs and they're a mixed story. I mean, sure, feel free to not care.  But a 2x increase in operating cost, and thermal load is not "a few watts", especially for those of us not interested in a high risk gamble involving mining for a few months and then throwing the hardware out.

By all means, be happy with their product— they shipped a working device to many people mostly on time, better than a lot of other vendors, and many of those customers will be happy enough with a product that goes to the landfill before the bitfury and bitmain devices. Though in terms of feature size I don't see a reason to brag about 28nm when it doesn't achieve substantially better hashrate per U or hashrate per watt even close to multiple competing 55nm designs.

I am very happy with my KNC hardware, but I do have some questions for those who have been keeping up with KnC so I can properly evaluate their promises:

I assume the extra hashrate over the promise came from overclocking (400 -> 550) and overvolting (550 -> 650). Power consumption likewise had to increase at least linearly, but likely exponentially ( -> 600 -> 850).

So if this is correct, what's the news on underclocking/undervolting firmware or tuning API?

Would you have egg on your face if after some min-maxing, machines can run and say... 800 MH/J? Or rather, at what efficiency would you have egg on your face?

There's a 1200+ page thread discussing KNC in great detail that answers all of questions.  I know it's hard to find since it's been hiding way up at the top of the forum for several months. It's located here...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.0

A good place to start is page one.  Enjoy!

Pointing me to unfiltered resources I already know about does not help. Please point me to where in the thread KnC has gone into detail about their clock speed and voltage choices on their ASICs. If they haven't, and no one has the scoop on it, that is also a sufficient answer.

If they have, point me to where KnC has said anything about releasing power saving firmware and tuning. I bet it's not in that thread either because it's not going to be relevant for at least a few months.

My last question is an opinion, so it's definitely not in the thread.

[xstr8guy]

I was with Sam from KnC a few days ago

KnC's inability to tell a consistent story was one of the reasons I happily chose to not to business with them. They've clearly stated both before and after product production that it was a structured asic run, and their power results support it. Ultimately it doesn't matter if they used crackerjack boxes to make their masks, at the end what matters is the specs and they're a mixed story. I mean, sure, feel free to not care.  But a 2x increase in operating cost, and thermal load is not "a few watts", especially for those of us not interested in a high risk gamble involving mining for a few months and then throwing the hardware out.

By all means, be happy with their product— they shipped a working device to many people mostly on time, better than a lot of other vendors, and many of those customers will be happy enough with a product that goes to the landfill before the bitfury and bitmain devices. Though in terms of feature size I don't see a reason to brag about 28nm when it doesn't achieve substantially better hashrate per U or hashrate per watt even close to multiple competing 55nm designs.

I am very happy with my KNC hardware, but I do have some questions for those who have been keeping up with KnC so I can properly evaluate their promises:

I assume the extra hashrate over the promise came from overclocking (400 -> 550) and overvolting (550 -> 650). Power consumption likewise had to increase at least linearly, but likely exponentially ( -> 600 -> 850).

So if this is correct, what's the news on underclocking/undervolting firmware or tuning API?

Would you have egg on your face if after some min-maxing, machines can run and say... 800 MH/J? Or rather, at what efficiency would you have egg on your face?

There's a 1200+ page thread discussing KNC in great detail that answers all of questions.  I know it's hard to find since it's been hiding way up at the top of the forum for several months. It's located here...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.0

A good place to start is page one.  Enjoy!

Pointing me to unfiltered resources I already know about does not help. Please point me to where in the thread KnC has gone into detail about their clock speed and voltage choices on their ASICs. If they haven't, and no one has the scoop on it, that is also a sufficient answer.

If they have, point me to where KnC has said anything about releasing power saving firmware and tuning. I bet it's not in that thread either because it's not going to be relevant for at least a few months.

My last question is an opinion, so it's definitely not in the thread.

Let me get right on that for ya!