[HAVELOCK](SFI) Seedcoin Fund I

[seedcoin]

(1) and (2) are mutually exclusive.  Either the IPO coin are distributed to the startups, or they are in Havelock's wallet, never both.

Bitcoins are transferred to the startups but the company shares are held by the fund so (1) and (2) are intrinsically associated to this transfer of coins for equity. As a unit holder you provide bitcoin to the startups and you get shares in return, the difference here is that these shares are held by the fund.

[Herp]

...
First, please understand that i'm not endorsing government regulation.  It is sufficient to acknowledge that it exists to realize the enormous differences between fiat and bitcoin ETFs.  Handing over your cash to any stranger who asks for it can't be justified with "A bank teller could steal it from you too."

Most important question that everyone should ask themselves in the Bitcoin space is very simple one: "Would it be in their best interest to scam me or not?" or "Do they have more to win by scamming or by playing fair."

In some cases answer is yes and in some cases answer is no.

The second question should be "what's the market like?"  Today's answer is "It's in a full-throttle nosedive."

I've made a couple of investments so far in Bitcoin/crypto companies via Bitcoin exchanges and I'm pleased with them so far. One of them is in Neo&Bee, another one is in BuyAHash on the old Litecoinglobal exchange. I've also picked up some Litecoininvest shares, which has very dedicated team behind it.

Neo&Bee and BuyAHash are in the green and I'm down a bit on litecoininvest. Overall it has been more profitable than keeping the money in Bitcoin.

[crumbs]

...
First, please understand that i'm not endorsing government regulation.  It is sufficient to acknowledge that it exists to realize the enormous differences between fiat and bitcoin ETFs.  Handing over your cash to any stranger who asks for it can't be justified with "A bank teller could steal it from you too."

Most important question that everyone should ask themselves in the Bitcoin space is very simple one: "Would it be in their best interest to scam me or not?" or "Do they have more to win by scamming or by playing fair."

In some cases answer is yes and in some cases answer is no.

The second question should be "what's the market like?"  Today's answer is "It's in a full-throttle nosedive."

I've made a couple of investments so far in Bitcoin/crypto companies via Bitcoin exchanges and I'm pleased with them so far. One of them is in Neo&Bee, another one is in BuyAHash on the old Litecoinglobal exchange. I've also picked up some Litecoininvest shares, which has very dedicated team behind it.

Neo&Bee and BuyAHash are in the green and I'm down a bit on litecoininvest. Overall it has been more profitable than keeping the money in Bitcoin.

NEOBEE is not in the green.  Being in the green implies profit, while NEOBEE is trading at IPO prices.  Factor in the fees, slippage & the fact that millions of shares are available at IPO prices, and you're losing money.
BuyAHash, as i understand it, is a Litecoin, not bitcoin security. Not familiar with it, though if it's a litecoin-denominated, it is not relevant.
Same for Litecoininvest.

Please remember that we're dealing with bitcoin, not litecoin.

[crumbs]

(1) and (2) are mutually exclusive.  Either the IPO coin are distributed to the startups, or they are in Havelock's wallet, never both.

Bitcoins are transferred to the startups but the company shares are held by the fund so (1) and (2) are intrinsically associated to this transfer of coins for equity. As a unit holder you provide bitcoin to the startups and you get shares in return, the difference here is that these shares are held by the fund.

Holding shares != holding bitcoins.  If the money is given to the startups, it is no longer held by Havelock, thus making (1) and (2) mutually exclusive.

[Herp]

...
First, please understand that i'm not endorsing government regulation.  It is sufficient to acknowledge that it exists to realize the enormous differences between fiat and bitcoin ETFs.  Handing over your cash to any stranger who asks for it can't be justified with "A bank teller could steal it from you too."

Most important question that everyone should ask themselves in the Bitcoin space is very simple one: "Would it be in their best interest to scam me or not?" or "Do they have more to win by scamming or by playing fair."

In some cases answer is yes and in some cases answer is no.

The second question should be "what's the market like?"  Today's answer is "It's in a full-throttle nosedive."

I've made a couple of investments so far in Bitcoin/crypto companies via Bitcoin exchanges and I'm pleased with them so far. One of them is in Neo&Bee, another one is in BuyAHash on the old Litecoinglobal exchange. I've also picked up some Litecoininvest shares, which has very dedicated team behind it.

Neo&Bee and BuyAHash are in the green and I'm down a bit on litecoininvest. Overall it has been more profitable than keeping the money in Bitcoin.

NEOBEE is not in the green.  Being in the green implies profit, while NEOBEE is trading at IPO prices.  Factor in the fees, slippage & the fact that millions of shares are available at IPO prices, and you're losing money.
BuyAHash, as i understand it, is a Litecoin, not bitcoin security. Not familiar with it, though if it's a litecoin-denominated, it is not relevant.
Same for Litecoininvest.

Please remember that we're dealing with bitcoin, not litecoin.

I've bought Neo&Bee below IPO price so I'm in the green atm.

[crumbs]

I've bought Neo&Bee below IPO price so I'm in the green atm.

Lol, many people made a bundle trading Labcoin.  I was tempted to jump in on the fun, since the swings were so deliciously predictable -- that was a great stock to trade.  Nonetheless, if not for the endless supply of greater fools, investing in Labcoin would have been pointless -- it's currently trading at 0.
I'm not suggesting that money couldn't be made trading in failing companies.  It can, it's being done every day, and it's loads of fun.

[Herp]

I've bought Neo&Bee below IPO price so I'm in the green atm.

Lol, many people made a bundle trading Labcoin.  I was tempted to jump in on the fun, since the swings were so deliciously predictable -- that was a great stock to trade.  Nonetheless, if not for the endless supply of greater fools, investing in Labcoin would have been pointless -- it's currently trading at 0.
I'm not suggesting that money couldn't be made trading in failing companies.  It can, it's being done every day, and it's loads of fun.

I've pondered a lot about investing Neo&Bee and I think it will very successful. I've looked into it from many angles. Mark my words, this particular stock will perform very well. It can capture growth of Bitcoin and some. Hadn't been for the sudden shutdown of btc-to and bitfunder, all shares would have sold by now.

[twentyseventy]

Korbman's analysis is exactly what I'd like clarification on from Seedcoin. You've provided a list of a handful of companies with their stated goals, but nothing about the projected timeframes for deployment, possible market, or profitability. Can we get some numbers here, or at least more details?

And can we have any details about how/when dividends will be issued?

[MPOE-PR]

We are helping Bitcoin startups with attractive businesses prospects and some already profitable. Our structure is quite similar to standard funds whereby a management company helps a fund to find viable and interesting opportunities in a specific sector or industry, in our case, cryptocurrencies.

Except that there is zero basis for imagining you're any better equipped than the average bipedal life form to "help", "find", or otherwise create any sort of value. Managing other people's funds and identifying worthwhile projects are not trivial tasks; they require specific expertise. Not interest, not passion, not "we talked to some guy named Dan and he likes us", expertise. That's what you need to focus on demonstrating. And that, well before you solicit "investments".

See here.

[Herp]

So far I'm only aware of one project going through, DealCoin, and while interesting, it still has a long way to prove itself as a good investment.

The Mexico btc exchange seems interesting too.

[Herp]

Does it exist?

http://www.mexbt.com/

Found this website.

[seedcoin]

Korbman's analysis is exactly what I'd like clarification on from Seedcoin. You've provided a list of a handful of companies with their stated goals, but nothing about the projected timeframes for deployment, possible market, or profitability. Can we get some numbers here, or at least more details?

And can we have any details about how/when dividends will be issued?

as a reply to Korbman and your question I have started contacting the founders so that they can reply to the comments made by Korbman earlier

from Korbman re. Cryptopay

What sets this startup apart from BitPay.com? In other words, why should I consider using Cryptopay instead of the *very* well known (and reliable) BitPay?

response from Cryptopay
We are located in Europe and one of our key feature is that we know how to become fully compliant with the current local legal framework. Our payouts to Europe don’t impose any limits on the amount and are credited to merchant’s bank account the next working day.

As our company is still early stage — we can be flexible on our business model and we are happy to provide the solutions for merchant’s with specific needs.
Cryptopay is going to roll out our POS solution within the next month and that might be something that could increase the adoption of Bitcoin payments to brick&mortar stores.
At the moment, as we don’t serve US customers, we are working outside the scope of American regulations, so our legal costs are significantly lower than in the US.

PS: We believe, that you can’t rely on just one company, even if it is “very” well known.

------------
I will post startup business plans / pitchdecks asap on:
http://www.seedco.in/home/havelock

BTC.sx pitchdeck is there now, more coming.

[seedcoin]

We are helping Bitcoin startups with attractive businesses prospects and some already profitable. Our structure is quite similar to standard funds whereby a management company helps a fund to find viable and interesting opportunities in a specific sector or industry, in our case, cryptocurrencies.

Except that there is zero basis for imagining you're any better equipped than the average bipedal life form to "help", "find", or otherwise create any sort of value. Managing other people's funds and identifying worthwhile projects are not trivial tasks; they require specific expertise. Not interest, not passion, not "we talked to some guy named Dan and he likes us", expertise. That's what you need to focus on demonstrating. And that, well before you solicit "investments".

See here.

Sure your are right managing other people's funds requires expertise. I have been involved with private equity and venture capital for the last nine years mainly in China and South East Asia. I also would like to point out - specially for the "find" part - that I have personally met most of the entrepreneurs including the founders of MEXBT.com, GoCoin, Hive, BTC.sx; my partner has met the Cryptopay co-founders in the UK; I will meet Monero's founder next week and our Austin-based mentor has met the founder of zSIM. We have organized a conference in Singapore, the first bitcoin conference in Asia, on November 15 where many of these entrepreneurs were present and we had 200 attendees from all over the world. So in the "find" area I can say we have been quite active, in addition to the tens of entrepreneurs my two partners and I have talked to in meetups, over skype, and via email. For the "help" part we have already been providing services in finding partners, registering companies, assessing risks and the regulatory environment, defining the business model, defining the business strategy and targeting certain markets. Of course much more work still needs to be done but this is what we do daily. I think the result of this work will very soon demonstrate our focus and dedication to our main task: helping entrepreneurs around the world to build successful bitcoin-centric startups.

[Herp]

@Seedcoin

Does this fund also have a maintenance fee or is that 11% off a one time fee that covers all future expenses?

[seedcoin]

@Seedcoin

Does this fund also have a maintenance fee or is that 11% off a one time fee that covers all future expenses?

There is no maintenance fee, 11% is a one time fee.

[freedomno1]

Hive - grabhive.com
Hive is an attractive, easy-to-use Bitcoin wallet for OS X and Android that features a built-in app platform for merchant discovery. Hive provides an answer to the three fundamental questions: How can I Get, Send and Spend Bitcoin?

How does this startup provide a more thorough service (in terms of speed, security, and reliability) compared to blockchain.info or Bitcoin-QT wallets? How large is the market for a Mac OSX wallet, as compared to Windows or Linux?

Hive has been on my observe list for a while so I do recognize this as an interesting group
They have a thread here for anyone who wants to check them out
For the other assets not familiar with at this point in time
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=304060.0

Its D@T so no off topics

[seedcoin]

[...] However, I think you should mainly look at the startups since they will be the recipient of most of the bitcoins raised, a small portion of the funds raised will go towards ensuring we can keep providing services to the startups and their founders. The Bitcoin startups are located in various countries around the world and are responding to different needs or solving specific problems in the bitcoin ecosystem.

Let's focus on this for a moment.

Hive - grabhive.com
Hive is an attractive, easy-to-use Bitcoin wallet for OS X and Android that features a built-in app platform for merchant discovery. Hive provides an answer to the three fundamental questions: How can I Get, Send and Spend Bitcoin?

How does this startup provide a more thorough service (in terms of speed, security, and reliability) compared to blockchain.info or Bitcoin-QT wallets? How large is the market for a Mac OSX wallet, as compared to Windows or Linux?

Answer from Wendell, Hive's founder:

Hive is not for Mac OS only, the intention is to be on all platforms, and in fact we made this announcement last month:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=334383

This funding round is going towards making Hive available on more platforms.

Re: the inquiry, those topics aren't our specific purview. While we of course strive to achieve all of those things in spades, our intention is primarily to be an introductory wallet with built-in merchant and services discovery. Our focus is that, and decentralization.

http://www.coindesk.com/hive-osx-wallet-promises-app-integration/

However:

Security -- we are actively working on BIP32 (Hierarchical Deterministic Wallet) and Trezor (hardware wallet) support. We will hopefully be one of the first.

Speed -- We are an SPV wallet based on bitcoinj, so it's very fast indeed.

Reliability -- Since we are using bitcoinj we rely on it for a fair amount of our reliability, but we've built in a large number of checks on every level. Additional things we add on top are automatic backups (which goes beyond the typical, for example we auto-detect things like Dropbox and set automatic encrypted backup point there)

[seedcoin]

[...] However, I think you should mainly look at the startups since they will be the recipient of most of the bitcoins raised, a small portion of the funds raised will go towards ensuring we can keep providing services to the startups and their founders. The Bitcoin startups are located in various countries around the world and are responding to different needs or solving specific problems in the bitcoin ecosystem.

Let's focus on this for a moment.

Monero - Monero.co
Monero makes it easy for e-commerce merchants to accept Bitcoin by integrating existing payment processors to their store. Our free plugins and subscription-based SaaS solution uses sophisticated user-experience design to allow merchants to easily switch between payment processors and to view customer analytics in a well-designed user interface. We target e-commerce merchants that already accept Bitcoin through existing payment processors and merchants in rapidly expanding markets, like China and Latin America.

I dug into this a bit (briefly), and as far as I can tell it's just a simple application / plugin that allows you to accept Bitcoin payments through various exchanges. What's the business model behind this, and how does this differ from setting up a typical "Bitcoin Accepted" Mt. Gox button for payments?

Answer from Nikos, Monero's founder:

Monero is creating a collection of plugins for various platforms that will allow merchants to easily integrate existing payment processors (Bitpay, Coinbase, BIPS, GoCoin, BitPagos) into their e-commerce stores. Merchants will not have to integrate each processor separately and the plugins will allow easy switching between them. Although the plugins will be free and open-source, Monero will generate recurring revenue through a Software-As-A-Service (SaaS) model by providing additional capabilities to merchants. At this moment, Monero does not publicize the list of features that the SaaS will provide, since they are under development. You can sign up for the Monero mailing list at monero.co in order to receive up-to-date information about those SaaS features. 

One clarification: In your question, you mentioned integration of existing exchanges, like Mt Gox. Monero will not integrate those. Instead, as mentioned above, it will integrate payment processors like Bitpay, Coinbase, BIPS, GoCoin, and BitPagos.

[MPOE-PR]

Sure your are right managing other people's funds requires expertise. I have been involved with private equity and venture capital for the last nine years mainly in China and South East Asia. I also would like to point out - specially for the "find" part - that I have personally met most of the entrepreneurs including the founders of MEXBT.com, GoCoin, Hive, BTC.sx; my partner has met the Cryptopay co-founders in the UK; I will meet Monero's founder next week and our Austin-based mentor has met the founder of zSIM. We have organized a conference in Singapore, the first bitcoin conference in Asia, on November 15 where many of these entrepreneurs were present and we had 200 attendees from all over the world. So in the "find" area I can say we have been quite active, in addition to the tens of entrepreneurs my two partners and I have talked to in meetups, over skype, and via email. For the "help" part we have already been providing services in finding partners, registering companies, assessing risks and the regulatory environment, defining the business model, defining the business strategy and targeting certain markets. Of course much more work still needs to be done but this is what we do daily. I think the result of this work will very soon demonstrate our focus and dedication to our main task: helping entrepreneurs around the world to build successful bitcoin-centric startups.

Claiming to have "been involved" with nary an iota of substantiation does not constitute establishing your competence or expertise. It constitutes further proof that you're able and willing to say anything, and that you're either unaware of how to present yourself or else too lazy to actually do it correctly. Same goes for passing off conference organization as some kind of artifact of financial expertise.

Yes, various idiots have been murkying the waters of this forum with similar contentless assuring for years; this doesn't mean it's in any way acceptable. You can either demonstrate that you're capable and serious, which means following the actual protocols of the field, or else you can appeal to the groups here that have no business investing and who will cheer on your good intentions 'til their last satoshi is gone. Don't mistake that second option as anything other than blowing it.

[Herp]

I think i get it, i'll try to put it in my own words:

1.  I hand over my money.
2.  You take a management fee, and invest my money in another company.
3.  ...or not -- that's left up to you.
4.  If the companies you invest in make money, we both get rich.
5.  If they all lose money, i go broke and you still get paid.

6.  If the above terms are still not to your liking, you reserve the right to change them at any time.

7.  I also take a risk on you or your Panamanian exchange walking off with my coin.  It would be crass to suggest such a thing anywhere but in bitcoin securities.  In bitcoin securities, on the other hand, i would be insane not to.
People who were not directly scammed by asset issuers were scammed by the exchanges.  Havelock, the exchange you are associated with, has exactly zero assets trading above IPO price.  None.

*If any of the above is inaccurate, i welcome your corrections.

In this particular case the bitcoin will be  transferred soon after the IPO to the target companies and should not remain long on Havelockinvestments wallets which I believe have proven safe since they started operating and the Panamanian fund is licensed. Everyone knows reputation is the first asset in the bitcoin securities world and of course this offering is a clear sign of trust on our behalf for the Panama Fund but I leave it up to each potential investor to assess any risk related to buying units via Havelockinvestments.com.

How can you be so sure of this? It would actually be against Havelock's new policy to do that. Certainly these incubated businesses don't need all the money at once, do they? Havelock can gradually dispense money based on invoices and such or some other proof showing how they're going to be spent. It's either this or Havelock doesn't stick to their own terms.