NXT coin - A total scam?

[pinarello]

it delivers and produce!

if you want to be selectively blind so be it.

show me one other coin that does just that.

it delivers and produces what?

you are trolling yes?

[r3wt]

it delivers and produce!

if you want to be selectively blind so be it.

show me one other coin that does just that.

it delivers and produces what?

you are trolling yes?

no, i'm asking, show me whats special about NXT. maybe elaborate on mark m's explanation. to date all i've seen is hype from the pro-NXT crow and flame from the anti-NXT bunch. I want the evidence presented, bit for bit, and byte for byte, in a comprehensible, human readable format so that i may devour the knowledge and form logical opinions based upon my observations.

[Cryddit]

I want the evidence presented, bit for bit, and byte for byte, in a comprehensible, human readable format so that i may devour the knowledge and form logical opinions based upon my observations.

+1. 

There's really no point even talking about it while the people talking can't see the code yet.  Nothing concrete to discuss.

[FrictionlessCoin]

it delivers and produce!

if you want to be selectively blind so be it.

show me one other coin that does just that.

it delivers and produces what?

Hopefully, source code that currencies can use in order to achieve consensus as to their ledgers without needing massive investment into mining gear and massive expenditures of electricity.

Hopefully unlike Ripple it will not be full of extraneous stuff that would just be maintenance and customer-support overhead to people just looking to run their currency or asset or shares or votes or whatever in a  P2P manner securely.

That way all those insecure blockchain coins can migrate to something secure, since obviously they are not all going to be able to secure their ledgers in blockchain form.

-MarkM-

If the proof chain doesn't take a lot of computational power to create, then the system is insecure because anyone can easily create an alternative proof chain that will fork the coin.

Explain to me how the hell is this proof of stake supposed to work when it can easily be counterfeited?

[Lonsarg]

If the proof chain doesn't take a lot of computational power to create, then the system is insecure because anyone can easily create an alternative proof chain that will fork the coin.

Explain to me how the hell is this proof of stake supposed to work when it can easily be counterfeited?

Because in Proof of stake, to fork a chain you need to brute force many private encryption keys thah represent a proof of having stake(money).

Basicly Instead of strong computation for security(PoW) you use strong private keys that represent stake of money(PoS). I LOVE PoS, it is the future.

But NxT is definetly not a future, even of it is not a scam it has flawed initial distribution and flawed mining. Mining with only transactions is flawed because you have unsolvable problem of either having too big transaction fees or not enough miners for network integrity.


There absolutly must be another way of getting coins than only fees. Absolutely must!

[scarface]

anyone buying NXT or RIPPLE will surely regret it

[salsacz]

yes, you must get fees from buying avatars, using special features... oh, wait..

[FrictionlessCoin]

If the proof chain doesn't take a lot of computational power to create, then the system is insecure because anyone can easily create an alternative proof chain that will fork the coin.

Explain to me how the hell is this proof of stake supposed to work when it can easily be counterfeited?

Because in Proof of stake, to fork a chain you need to brute force many private encryption keys thah represent a proof of having stake(money).

Basicly Instead of strong computation for security(PoW) you use strong private keys that represent stake of money(PoS). I LOVE PoS, it is the future.

But NxT is definetly not a future, even of it is not a scam it has flawed initial distribution and flawed mining. Mining with only transactions is flawed because you have unsolvable problem of either having too big transaction fees or not enough miners for network integrity.


There absolutly must be another way of getting coins than only fees. Absolutely must!

So how is this any different from someone setting up a Open Transaction server and issuing 999,999,999 coins?

Is the only difference the marketing of the coin?

[Hippie Tech]

If the proof chain doesn't take a lot of computational power to create, then the system is insecure because anyone can easily create an alternative proof chain that will fork the coin.

Explain to me how the hell is this proof of stake supposed to work when it can easily be counterfeited?

Because in Proof of stake, to fork a chain you need to brute force many private encryption keys thah represent a proof of having stake(money).

Basicly Instead of strong computation for security(PoW) you use strong private keys that represent stake of money(PoS). I LOVE PoS, it is the future.

But NxT is definetly not a future, even of it is not a scam it has flawed initial distribution and flawed mining. Mining with only transactions is flawed because you have unsolvable problem of either having too big transaction fees or not enough miners for network integrity.


There absolutly must be another way of getting coins than only fees. Absolutely must!

So how is this any different from someone setting up a Open Transaction server and issuing 999,999,999 coins?

Is the only difference the marketing of the coin?

There is absolutely NO difference.

Whether you go it alone or with a few cohorts, all it takes is a handfull of bot puppets yapping their hype until the miners and bagholders begin lining up.

[User705]

If the proof chain doesn't take a lot of computational power to create, then the system is insecure because anyone can easily create an alternative proof chain that will fork the coin.

Explain to me how the hell is this proof of stake supposed to work when it can easily be counterfeited?

Because in Proof of stake, to fork a chain you need to brute force many private encryption keys thah represent a proof of having stake(money).

Basicly Instead of strong computation for security(PoW) you use strong private keys that represent stake of money(PoS). I LOVE PoS, it is the future.

But NxT is definetly not a future, even of it is not a scam it has flawed initial distribution and flawed mining. Mining with only transactions is flawed because you have unsolvable problem of either having too big transaction fees or not enough miners for network integrity.


There absolutly must be another way of getting coins than only fees. Absolutely must!

So how is this any different from someone setting up a Open Transaction server and issuing 999,999,999 coins?

Is the only difference the marketing of the coin?

What's the difference between dogecoin and litecoin?

[Come-from-Beyond]

Mining with only transactions is flawed because you have unsolvable problem of either having too big transaction fees or not enough miners for network integrity.

Care to prove this or it's just ur "imho"?

[markm]

For each percent of the total coins in circulation you yourself own, what percent of all coins would you personally consider "too few actively mining" enough to cause you to fire up a "miner" yourself?

For example if you owned half the coins, and one day it came to your attention that only ten percent of all the coins were online aka actively mining, would that be a dire enough situation to lead you to put some of your own coins online so they too could "mine"?

If not, at what percent of all coins being online actively mining might you consider firing up a node yourself?

Consider two different backdrops to that:

In one, your fifty percent of all the coins adds up to a total market value of only a day or so electricity and bandwidth cost of putting a node online.

In the other, your fifty percent of all the coins adds up to a total market value equal to many years of electricity and bandwidth cost of putting a node online, plus enough to buy hardware for two to a thousand or more nodes, and all that is without spending more than half your coins.

-MarkM-

[Lonsarg]

Mining with only transactions is flawed because you have unsolvable problem of either having too big transaction fees or not enough miners for network integrity.

Care to prove this or it's just ur "imho"?

Ok, so the only incentive to run a node is earning transaction fees. So Transaction fees must be high enough that people decide to run a node with their stake. You absolutely want a big enough % of stakes to be online = earn transaction fees. Because this number should be A LOT bigger than the amount of money the attacker is willing to spent on a network.

I can easily imagine in near future attackers willing to spent 5-10% of all the NXT value, maybe even more in the first months. In far future if NXT suceeds this % will indeed be smaller, but the amount of money will still grow because it will be worth more.

So for many people to run their nodes the transactions they earn must be quite a sum, its hard to calculate people willignes, but lets say the total earned fees per month should be around 1% of all money existing. This is A LOT, too much, transactions will be too expensive. You can not have 1% of money existing to be transfered per month just for the sake of transactions.


And another thing even more wrong with NxT, its 100% premined for gods sake! Even if it is not a scam per se it still is a scam, because no way how you turn this about, the original holders will profit A LOT MORE than "forgers"/miners that are responsible for coin stability. At bitcoin(and most other coins) all the miners have equal earning posibility depending on how early the get the coin, but that is not the point, even bitcoin has a problem of early adopters having too much. A true crypto curency should have earning posibility that is 100% aligned by the amount of money and the time at which they invest in curency. In a LINEAR WAY, not this premined, exponential, root,...shi...

[Come-from-Beyond]

Ok, so the only incentive to run a node is earning transaction fees.

Actually no. Nxt offers (will offer) different services built on top of the core. U can become a service provider and earn money, not fees. For example, u can run special programs hosted on the blockchain and earn coins by finding solutions (Distributed Computing feature, similar to BOINC). Without processing blocks u won't be able to do that.

And another thing even more wrong with NxT, its 100% premined for gods sake!

All founders bought their NXT. Only BCNext got them for free, coz he paid 1 BTC back to himself (at least he said that he was going to invest 1 BTC). But he spent his time to write the code. If u thought about this a bit more u wouldn't say it's premined. Be a man and accept that statement "Nxt is 100% premined" is just a lie.

[Lonsarg]

Ok, so the only incentive to run a node is earning transaction fees.

Actually no. Nxt offers (will offer) different services built on top of the core. U can become a service provider and earn money, not fees. For example, u can run special programs hosted on the blockchain and earn coins by finding solutions (Distributed Computing feature, similar to BOINC). Without processing blocks u won't be able to do that.

OMG, a 3rd party service is called that way for a reason, it does NOT affect transaction blockchain, its 3rd party. So my point still stands, fees are the only incentive to run a node for transaction blockchain integrity and this has problems.

And another thing even more wrong with NxT, its 100% premined for gods sake!

All founders bought their NXT. Only BCNext got them for free, coz he paid 1 BTC back to himself (at least he said that he was going to invest 1 BTC). But he spent his time to write the code. If u thought about this a bit more u wouldn't say it's premined. Be a man and accept that statement "Nxt is 100% premined" is just a lie.

Bough for 1 BTC is the lamest exuse for a premine coin i have ever heard... And "Nxt is 100% premined" is an official statment from their video not a lie lol...  

EVERY other normal coin, there is new coin made from something(mining usualy) and you can you know, somehow earn/make coin. On Nxt the only way to get coin is that you somehow buy that initial 100% premined coin. WTF is wrong with you people. Some people really deserve to be scamed for their stupidity! Even Central banks for FIAT are not this bad usualy when they isue a currency! No wonder central banks scam people, if a even more obvious scam is possible by NxT. On a forum where people are thought to know at least a little about economy...

Initial holders control the release of money to the mases for gods sake, wake up.



I still hope NxT releases source code, technicaly it is suposedly a very good 100% PoS system and this can be used for some other alt.

[instacalm]

Bough for 1 BTC is the lamest exuse for a premine coin i have ever heard... And "Nxt is 100% premined" is an official statment from their video not a lie lol...  

Do you actually understand the nature of PoS? How would you begin distributing this system?

[Come-from-Beyond]

OMG, a 3rd party service is called that way for a reason, it does NOT affect transaction blockchain, its 3rd party. So my point still stands, fees are the only incentive to run a node for transaction blockchain integrity and this has problems.

Sorry if I failed to explain u the idea of service providing, my English is not so good.

Bough for 1 BTC is the lamest exuse for a premine coin i have ever heard... And "Nxt is 100% premined" is an official statment from their video not a lie lol...  

There can't be official statement in a decentralized system. "...the lamest exuse for a premine coin i have ever heard" tells that further discussion doesn't make much sense. So be it.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Why does this thing even exist?

Why can't it exist?

[Romyen]

I still hope NxT releases source code, technicaly it is suposedly a very good 100% PoS system and this can be used for some other alt.

Wait, there is no public source code?

Well being Java it should be easy to extract something somewhat useful from the bytecode. But seriously, no public source code? Why does this thing even exist?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There%27s_a_sucker_born_every_minute

[Lonsarg]

Bough for 1 BTC is the lamest exuse for a premine coin i have ever heard... And "Nxt is 100% premined" is an official statment from their video not a lie lol...  

Do you actually understand the nature of PoS? How would you begin distributing this system?

Well, there are PLENTY of ways to do it without much premine. System would simply make more coins based on any algoritm and distrubute this coin by any algoritm. For example, a simple algoritm could just be something similar to bitcoin for making coins and PoS weighted system(the same one NxT uses for transaction conformations) could be used to distrubute this made coin to online nodes. Basicly just add the new made coins to the earned bonus for transaction conformation, a simple source code change really.

Besides this simple algoritm i am workingon some complicated one with stability functionality, but that is another story.