NXT coin - A total scam?

[Come-from-Beyond]

System would simply make more coins based on any algoritm and distrubute this coin by any algoritm.

Let me know when u launch such a system, plz. I'll show u why this doesn't work. It must be 100% PoS, though.

[paratox]

Bough for 1 BTC is the lamest exuse for a premine coin i have ever heard... And "Nxt is 100% premined" is an official statment from their video not a lie lol...  

I think its wrong to use the term "premine" in regards to NxT. It should be clear, that NxT has nothing to do with mining... Don't you see that as soon as you use the word "premine" in your critics about NxT, you make it easy for supporters to dismiss your whole argument just because of a misused word?

Nevertheless, distribution was kinda dubious. The timespan for distribution was rather short, so there wasn't enough time to get many users on board.

With a pure PoS coin, the maingoal (imo) should be the distribution to as many users as possible. That's not hard to accomplish... just stretch out the investerphase at least till launch. Only issue TestNxT for the open alpha/beta.. why would you need "real"NxT to test and develop the network?

Then, after a few month, when the client and network is setup, enough time would have passed to establish a wider base of investors so to prevent a too concentrated distribution at launch.

The inventor could also promote distribution after launch by reserving/buying like 10-20% of NxT at presale price and then selling them in batches every week at presale price for the first few months. That would make NxT stable in the beginning which would attract even more users.

Maybe this approach is flawed ( honestly I would really appreciate it, if someone could point out these possible flaws), but I guess  that there are possibilities for a fairer distribution, if enough thought is put into this matter.

_____________________

EDIT: Thought about it a little more.. the idea with issued TestNxT seems to be not possible in a PoS system... so that argument is flawed.

Reserving/buying NxT by the inventor to redistribute them in batches after launch at presale price could work, but there may be a trust problem..

Sorry for posting this prematurely without thinking long enough about it..

[Lonsarg]

System would simply make more coins based on any algoritm and distrubute this coin by any algoritm.

Let me know when u launch such a system, plz. I'll show u why this doesn't work. It must be 100% PoS, though.

What is wrong with just adding to existing NxT code someting saying: for every transaction revard a node gets, make X amount(a predefined %) of new coins and add those coins to this revard. Simple and working. Yes it is not mining, its something else, but i use word mining cause more people know it.

Saying 100% PoS need a 100% predistributed(or premined or whatever you want to all it) is just plain wrong. So the one that said that on the youtube marketing video is plain lieing or doesn't know how PoS works. PoS is a system for proving ANYTHING, just like PoW. If it can prove transactions it can prove new coins. It can prove anything it is not limited...

[Come-from-Beyond]

Saying 100% PoS need a 100% predistributed(or premined or whatever you want to all it) is just plain wrong.

Ok. Let's conduct an experiment. We have a non-premined 100% PoS coin. Tell me how u would generate first 3 blocks.

I'll be there in a hour, u have 60 minutes to post ur answer. Don't post the 1st idea that comes to ur mind, think 60 minutes plz.

[Lonsarg]

Saying 100% PoS need a 100% predistributed(or premined or whatever you want to all it) is just plain wrong.

Ok. Let's conduct an experiment. We have a non-premined 100% PoS coin. Tell me how u would generate first 3 blocks.

I'll be there in a hour, u have 60 minutes to post ur answer. Don't post the 1st idea that comes to ur mind, think 60 minutes plz.

I didn't say you can have 0% predistributed(in this case you are right you need at least some for first blocks) i just said you don't need 100% like NxT has.

But predistributed could easily by like 100 coins and than in one week you can have 100000 coins if you want, so the predistributed coins can be negligable, like 0.001% no problem.

But yes even if only a small amount of coins are predistributed you still need to sell them, like NxT is doing. Because in PoS the only way to have coins is to buy them, they can only be made from coins.



See i don't need 60minutes, i spend all the evenings and nights on last 2 weeks(last two days i went to sleep at 6:00 AM) thinking about a good PoS implementation with stability algoritm and fair distribution. Maybe you will not believe me, but i came up with PoS on my own, before i even read on the internet that PoS exists!

[Come-from-Beyond]

I didn't say you can have 0% predistributed(in this case you are right you need at least some for first blocks) i just said you don't need 100% like NxT has.

But predistributed could easily by like 100 coins and than in one week you can have 100000 coins if you want, so the predistributed coins can be negligable, like 0.001% no problem.

But yes even if only a small amount of coins are predistributed you still need to sell them, like NxT is doing. Because in PoS the only way to have coins is to buy them, they can only be made from coins.



See i don't need 60minutes, i spend all the evenings and nights on last 2 weeks(last two days i went to sleep at 6:00 AM) thinking about a good PoS implementation with stability algoritm and fair distribution. Maybe you will not believe me, but i came up with PoS on my own, before i even read on the internet that PoS exists!

I do believe u.

Let's add small premine and continue the experiment.
Ur turn.

[Lonsarg]

Let's add small premine and continue the experiment.
Ur turn.

Ok i tried, but there seems to be a problem when all the mined coins go back to owners of premined coins, and we get similar situation as with NxT.. So you were more or less right right after all:) Apart from a messy solution i see nothing else to solve PoS intial distribution problem at the moment.

Here is how it happens with PoS mining.

(1) - Small premine, than for a first block instead of using P2P client do forum/email based selling of initial premine for a fixed/agreed upon price(in BTC, EUR,...), basicly exactly what NxT did, but with a very small amount, for example 10k coins.
(2) - So basicly now we have a NxT blockchain with for example 72 people having coins, but instead of milions of coins, there is only 10k coins.
(3) - We than make a system online, together with a first exchange, and that 72 people make their nodes online and start mining coins with for example 1 coin per block, and increasing over the first 2 weaks(so people have the chance to be first adopters) to lets say 25 coin per block. After that, we use whatever algoritem we want, we can just copy bitcoin halving revard every x blocks, or use whatever we want
(4) - Mined coin gets distributed the same way as transaction fees do in current NxT system(a bigger stakeholder gets more) so a stake holder with 20% of all money would also get 20% of all the new mined coins, meaning we have the same problem as with NxT, initial stakeholder never lose their big share of all money(if they have nodes online, which they do if they smart).


A messy solution: destroying BTC:) or any other cryptocurrency(can be/must be temporary just for initial distribution over few months)
--- a coin that is bought with BTC from a "system" has a bigger cut from mining, acording to date(number of blockchain) it was bought.
--- we use destroying BTC/LTC,.. as a means of creating coins from thin air, we prove destroying and get coins in exchange.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Ok i tried, but there seems to be a problem when all the mined coins go back to owners of premined coins, and we get similar situation as with NxT.. So you were more or less right right after all:) Apart from a messy solution i see nothing else to solve PoS intial distribution problem at the moment.

Here is how it happens with PoS mining.

(1) - Small premine, than for a first block instead of using P2P client do forum/email based selling of initial premine for a fixed/agreed upon price(in BTC, EUR,...), basicly exactly what NxT did, but with a very small amount, for example 10k coins.
(2) - So basicly now we have a NxT blockchain with for example 72 people having coins, but instead of milions of coins, there is only 10k coins.
(3) - We than make a system online, together with a first exchange, and that 72 people make their nodes online and start mining coins with for example 1 coin per block, and increasing over the first 2 weaks(so people have the chance to be first adopters) to lets say 25 coin per block. After that, we use whatever algoritem we want, we can just copy bitcoin halving revard every x blocks, or use whatever we want
(4) - Mined coin gets distributed the same way as transaction fees do in current NxT system(a bigger stakeholder gets more) so a stake holder with 20% of all money would also get 20% of all the new mined coins, meaning we have the same problem as with NxT, initial stakeholder never lose their big share of all money(if they have nodes online, which they do if they smart).


A messy solution: destroying BTC:) or any other cryptocurrency(can be/must be temporary just for initial distribution over few months)
--- a coin that is bought with BTC from a "system" has a bigger cut from mining, acording to date(number of blockchain) it was bought.
--- we use destroying BTC/LTC,.. as a means of creating coins from thin air, we prove destroying and get coins in exchange.

PM me if one day u manage to find a good solution of "premine" problem, please.

[r3wt]

Ok i tried, but there seems to be a problem when all the mined coins go back to owners of premined coins, and we get similar situation as with NxT.. So you were more or less right right after all:) Apart from a messy solution i see nothing else to solve PoS intial distribution problem at the moment.

Here is how it happens with PoS mining.

(1) - Small premine, than for a first block instead of using P2P client do forum/email based selling of initial premine for a fixed/agreed upon price(in BTC, EUR,...), basicly exactly what NxT did, but with a very small amount, for example 10k coins.
(2) - So basicly now we have a NxT blockchain with for example 72 people having coins, but instead of milions of coins, there is only 10k coins.
(3) - We than make a system online, together with a first exchange, and that 72 people make their nodes online and start mining coins with for example 1 coin per block, and increasing over the first 2 weaks(so people have the chance to be first adopters) to lets say 25 coin per block. After that, we use whatever algoritem we want, we can just copy bitcoin halving revard every x blocks, or use whatever we want
(4) - Mined coin gets distributed the same way as transaction fees do in current NxT system(a bigger stakeholder gets more) so a stake holder with 20% of all money would also get 20% of all the new mined coins, meaning we have the same problem as with NxT, initial stakeholder never lose their big share of all money(if they have nodes online, which they do if they smart).


A messy solution: destroying BTC:) or any other cryptocurrency(can be/must be temporary just for initial distribution over few months)
--- a coin that is bought with BTC from a "system" has a bigger cut from mining, acording to date(number of blockchain) it was bought.
--- we use destroying BTC/LTC,.. as a means of creating coins from thin air, we prove destroying and get coins in exchange.

PM me if one day u manage to find a good solution of "premine" problem, please.

seed all addresses with .001 coin, and restrict to `1 coin per client.

[Come-from-Beyond]

seed all addresses with .001 coin, and restrict to `1 coin per client.

This won't work. Do u believe me or should we conduct an experiment?

[r3wt]

seed all addresses with .001 coin, and restrict to `1 coin per client.

This won't work. Do u believe me or should we conduct an experiment?

botnets would immediately have the advantage, right? i see the point you are making, but i'm not conceding it. where there is a will there is a way.

[Come-from-Beyond]

botnets would immediately have the advantage, right? i see the point you are making, but i'm not conceding it. where there is a will there is a way.

I hope one day someone will devise a way to launch a 100% PoS currency without distributing all coins in the genesis block...
On that day I'll sell all my NXTs and buy new coins.

[r3wt]

botnets would immediately have the advantage, right? i see the point you are making, but i'm not conceding it. where there is a will there is a way.

I hope one day someone will devise a way to launch a 100% PoS currency without distributing all coins in the genesis block...
On that day I'll sell all my NXTs and buy new coins.

agreed. for now though, NXT is about as good as it gets for 100% POS currnecy. its like a prototype really.

[denario]

A scam not, only a pile of shit 

[dulinxu]

Mining with only transactions is flawed because you have unsolvable problem of either having too big transaction fees or not enough miners for network integrity.

Care to prove this or it's just ur "imho"?

Ok, so the only incentive to run a node is earning transaction fees. So Transaction fees must be high enough that people decide to run a node with their stake. You absolutely want a big enough % of stakes to be online = earn transaction fees. Because this number should be A LOT bigger than the amount of money the attacker is willing to spent on a network.

I can easily imagine in near future attackers willing to spent 5-10% of all the NXT value, maybe even more in the first months. In far future if NXT suceeds this % will indeed be smaller, but the amount of money will still grow because it will be worth more.

So for many people to run their nodes the transactions they earn must be quite a sum, its hard to calculate people willignes, but lets say the total earned fees per month should be around 1% of all money existing. This is A LOT, too much, transactions will be too expensive. You can not have 1% of money existing to be transfered per month just for the sake of transactions.


And another thing even more wrong with NxT, its 100% premined for gods sake! Even if it is not a scam per se it still is a scam, because no way how you turn this about, the original holders will profit A LOT MORE than "forgers"/miners that are responsible for coin stability. At bitcoin(and most other coins) all the miners have equal earning posibility depending on how early the get the coin, but that is not the point, even bitcoin has a problem of early adopters having too much. A true crypto curency should have earning posibility that is 100% aligned by the amount of money and the time at which they invest in curency. In a LINEAR WAY, not this premined, exponential, root,...shi...

[/quo
   nxt is not just a coin, it is like shares.   the most important is the  decentralized exchange!!!!!!!!!

[JorgeCassio]

scam coin

[qiwoman]

scam coin

I really don't understand why is it being called a scam coin? Is it because some peeps centrally own a chunk of it? Isn't that though with all coins especially because peeps can get a lot when they mine early? I logged into my dgex account after two months and saw my nxt rise 3 times in value which is cool. Shall I sell it for btc or keep it still? Any advice would be helpful.

[salsacz]

hold

[scarface]

scam coin

I really don't understand why is it being called a scam coin? Is it because some peeps centrally own a chunk of it? Isn't that though with all coins especially because peeps can get a lot when they mine early? I logged into my dgex account after two months and saw my nxt rise 3 times in value which is cool. Shall I sell it for btc or keep it still? Any advice would be helpful.

early mine and premine are two very different things m8

[EvilDave]

Rofl hard.....NXT may have an initial distribution issue, but there is no way that it can be called a scam coin.

And, funnily, almost all of the "problems" with NXT that the FUD trolls are screaming about could also be found in another dodgy crypto-currency that some dude called Satoshi threw together in his kitchen 5 years ago.....and she/he/they/it also pre-mined (or very early mined, more accurately) around 1 million of those dubious Bitcoins.

Buy NXT now and hold. If i'm wrong, come round my house in 5 years time....

Or u could check out Visacoin, if u want an actual, real scamcoin. U can still invest....