Bitcoin Nation

[Bitcoin-hotep]

There is better, or at least simpler option. One that does not require anyone to move. Look at how Cosa Nostra and Yakuza function. They live in same country as everyone else, but they are effectively their own people and their own nation, with their own economy and services.

I don't think basing our nation on the structure of a gang is a good idea The F.O.L.K.S. Nation exists within America and I'd rather not be lumped in with them and the other nations

[Bitcoin-hotep]

I had a vision of starting up crypto villages..small micro economic centers that would be fully sustainable, co friendly and be each mining its own coin so anything that the village needs that it cannot produce it can buy with Bitcoin or whatever other Crypto Con. This way everyone living their would live a poverty free and self sustainable lifestyle yet be part of a thriving community. Humans have the capacity to thrive but not with these types of economic systems we have in place today that gear towards only the 5% have any form of decent life.

I think solar power, hand crank and acid powered mining machines are the future

I am pretty sure you can use salt water for electricity even... Salt in water = Electrolytes

[Bitcoin-hotep]

How will that "floating city" handle big waves though? And do we even got chains strong enough to anchor that thing and survive fighting against the winds hitting such a huge surface area? What if the wind is asymmetrical, causing it to try to turn, distributing the strain over the anchors unevenly?

You know about that giant pile of plastic trash floating in Pacific Ocean? Maybe a ship like this can park there. They would not need to anchor, since they would just float in circle just like all that trash, and they can "mine" the trash as resource. Maybe melt it, and use it as source for 3D printing.

The boats would have to be equipped with delivery drones to bring things to shore or even multiple countries because I am sure there would be an overflow of unnecessary items at some point

[deisik]

There is better, or at least simpler option. One that does not require anyone to move. Look at how Cosa Nostra and Yakuza function. They live in same country as everyone else, but they are effectively their own people and their own nation, with their own economy and services.

Strictly speaking, they don't have their own economy which is at least able to support itself. They parasitize on the economy they happen to live in (through not paying taxes, engaging in forbidden activities, etc). I don't think this is a characteristic that most bicoiners would love to share...

[Bitcoin-hotep]

How will that "floating city" handle big waves though? And do we even got chains strong enough to anchor that thing and survive fighting against the winds hitting such a huge surface area? What if the wind is asymmetrical, causing it to try to turn, distributing the strain over the anchors unevenly?

You know about that giant pile of plastic trash floating in Pacific Ocean? Maybe a ship like this can park there. They would not need to anchor, since they would just float in circle just like all that trash, and they can "mine" the trash as resource. Maybe melt it, and use it as source for 3D printing.

That thing looks like it would be affected more by the wind than by currents; it got way more surface area above than bellow water.



I think latching all the pieces together wouldn't work well, would cause too much stress. It would work better as a flotilla with flexible paths between them. Sorta like Columbia from the Bioshock Infinite game, but with a bit less up and down bobbing between the "islands".


Not having each unit have it's own propulsion seems like a bad idea; having to evacuate a whole cityblock in the middle of the ocean because it was about to crash doesn't sound all that feasible.

Something like an array of Voith Schneider propellers under each unit might perhaps be the best idea. Obviously, the islands would have to coordinate their movement with each other, sorta like how vehicles like SPMTs do.


If i'm not mistaken, propellers like that, might even be able to produce vertical thrust; which could be used to reduce rolling and delay the sinking during an emergency.

The propellers would be a very expensive addition It could help but I do not think we would be building a city as large as the one in the video and it would probably be easier to manage it with a fleet of tug boats Not saying the propellers are a bad idea just maybe too expensive like possibly double the cost of the platform itself

And if the islands were to be given space they would have to bob up and down When they are secured together to create 1-10 miles of land mass they can take a little more without being effected I.E. Inertia

[Bitcoin-hotep]

An arrangement like that, if it allows for some flexibility between the hexagons, could grow much larger than any rigid ship and still be able to handle very long waves out on the ocean.  It is effectively an articulated structure, which puts it light years ahead of, say, Freedom Ship in terms of practicality and ability to exist.  And leaving space between the hexes allows boats to get through, so rowboats and little sailboats could be used effectively like bikes.  (and of course motorboats would be the SUVs of the system... ).  So you'd want flexible standoffs between hexes. If you put them above the water, they'd also probably serve as bridges as well for foot, bicycle, and scooter traffic, and would have to be high enough that reasonable-size sailboats could get under them.

One thing I notice about the float city above is that it has a lot of differential loading.  Some of those hexes will need to be awfully deep, and ballasted at the lower ends, in order to support the large buildings on top of them, while those that just support a cottage and a garden can be effectively flat bottomed and quite shallow. The very deep hexes can work a lot like "sea spars" in that they can resist large waves without being capsized or necessarily having large vertical movements.  They'd be a hell of a lot harder for a violent wave to flip over or push around, for example.  So your best arrangement for a city like that, in order to withstand hurricanes etc, would be to have the "deep" hexes (and multi-hex platforms) with the big buildings on the outer edge of the city, protecting the interior, while the regular 'flat' hexes that support just a cottage and a garden should be on the interior -- effectively the reverse of the way it's pictured above.  This would also be more convenient for the heavy industries, fish packers, shipping centers, malls, and factories etc that the larger buildings likely contain, because it would give them access to the edge of the raft where larger ships for ocean traffic, and medium-size boats that would serve as trucks to take loads to other businesses around the edges of the raft, could be loaded and unloaded.  

Ah so like gaps but like steel beam bridges with shock absorption that are actually just joining pieces for the hexagons they would have to go all the way to the middle of the hexagon and it would probably be best to weld all the beams together inside the hexagons so that they create a skeletal structure for the whole thing

[Bitcoin-hotep]

Building artificial floating islands can be a risky business. What we'll do if something like this happens:

The same thing aircraft carriers do Take that shit like a beast

We could even probably use a retired ship as the middle of the entire thing

[Ibian]

Couldn't a floating island include some sort of wave-breaking outer shell for big waves? Would it even be needed given the size of such a thing? Not talking tiny little sailboats here after all.

[Bitcoin-hotep]

There is better, or at least simpler option. One that does not require anyone to move. Look at how Cosa Nostra and Yakuza function. They live in same country as everyone else, but they are effectively their own people and their own nation, with their own economy and services.

Strictly speaking, they don't have their own economy which is at least able to support itself. They parasitize on the economy they happen to live in (through not paying taxes, engaging in forbidden activities, etc). I don't think this is a characteristic that most bicoiners would love to share...

Exactly If anyone has a structure we would want to emulate I'd say the Hebrews and Freemasons are the best to follow

Instead of being bound to each other because of the crimes we potentially commit together we will be bound by blood over time Which is legal and much longer lasting

[Bitcoin-hotep]

Couldn't a floating island include some sort of wave-breaking outer shell for big waves? Would it even be needed given the size of such a thing? Not talking tiny little sailboats here after all.

I'm thinking #2 but wave breaking tech could be cheap and useful

[Bitcoin-hotep]

And remember we can have people above and under the water as well as little stationary towns at the bottom of the ocean

[BearKing55]

a Nuclear aircraft carrier might be a good initial base to expand from.

of course, a way to flag it, or protect it is the critical question.
but all questions have answers, just some are super complicated.


Flagged by a any Nation initially, then.........
anybody read The Moon is a Harsh Mistress?"
the Moon began as an Earth colony,  then found out how to protect itself,

some things just take a long time to evolve,
the nay sayers on this subject, would have been the same nay sayers decades ago telling us that there can be no such thing as a FREE CURRENCY internationally used not controlled by any Government................

[deisik]

a Nuclear aircraft carrier might be a good initial base to expand from.

of course, a way to flag it, or protect it is the critical question.
but all questions have answers, just some are super complicated.

Before torturing yourself with such questions, better ask yourself where you are going to get that nuclear aircraft carrier and who is going to sell it to you in the first place...

[Bitcoin-hotep]

a Nuclear aircraft carrier might be a good initial base to expand from.

of course, a way to flag it, or protect it is the critical question.
but all questions have answers, just some are super complicated.


Flagged by a any Nation initially, then.........
anybody read The Moon is a Harsh Mistress?"
the Moon began as an Earth colony,  then found out how to protect itself,

some things just take a long time to evolve,
the nay sayers on this subject, would have been the same nay sayers decades ago telling us that there can be no such thing as a FREE CURRENCY internationally used not controlled by any Government................

Most pirate bands have no guns and many that do have guns don't have many bullets or just have 1 gun So defense from pirates is not as big an issue any more unless you plan on going from port to port Because then you can't have guns on your ship But since we don't plan on docking anywhere we can have a small arsenal to defend from pirates And slowly develop a cheap long range defense like catapults or something but we don't want to start training snipers or anything just in case they get bored and turn their scope on the ship for a half hour while everyone tries to disarm them Having the rifles is not a bad idea but specializing someone for nothing but that is not a good idea

[BearKing55]

a Nuclear aircraft carrier might be a good initial base to expand from.

of course, a way to flag it, or protect it is the critical question.
but all questions have answers, just some are super complicated.


Flagged by a any Nation initially, then.........
anybody read The Moon is a Harsh Mistress?"
the Moon began as an Earth colony,  then found out how to protect itself,

some things just take a long time to evolve,
the nay sayers on this subject, would have been the same nay sayers decades ago telling us that there can be no such thing as a FREE CURRENCY internationally used not controlled by any Government................

Most pirate bands have no guns and many that do have guns don't have many bullets or just have 1 gun So defense from pirates is not as big an issue any more unless you plan on going from port to port Because then you can't have guns on your ship But since we don't plan on docking anywhere we can have a small arsenal to defend from pirates And slowly develop a cheap long range defense like catapults or something but we don't want to start training snipers or anything just in case they get bored and turn their scope on the ship for a half hour while everyone tries to disarm them Having the rifles is not a bad idea but specializing someone for nothing but that is not a good idea

I was thinking more protection from other GOVERNMENTS.

UN or USA being the most dangerous to any Libertarian style community.

and wasn't thinking just "guns" as a method of protection, negotiations treaties various weapons, support from the "right country", laws ETC.

[Hideyoshi]

There is better, or at least simpler option. One that does not require anyone to move. Look at how Cosa Nostra and Yakuza function. They live in same country as everyone else, but they are effectively their own people and their own nation, with their own economy and services.

Strictly speaking, they don't have their own economy which is at least able to support itself. They parasitize on the economy they happen to live in (through not paying taxes, engaging in forbidden activities, etc). I don't think this is a characteristic that most bicoiners would love to share...

Not true. Cosa Nostra grey market economy is second biggest economy in Italy. True, they avoid taxes, but much of what they sell is not strictly illegal (they do make counterfeit things), and they actually earn a lot of money to support themselves without parasiting on government. They themselves are the economy they live in, which is strong and developed enough that if Italy economy and government collapsed, southern Italy would still be fine. Their main service is private security and arbitration/negotiation, so they provide many functions that normally government provides. If bitcoin people wish to form such a nation, they would not need to do illegal things like gangs do, such as killing, selling drugs, and causing violence. But that you wish to form a nation tells me that there is something you wish to do that is not allowed (is illegal) to do where you live. That is why I suggested we study the organizations that already do things that are illegal to do where they live, but they still thrive while doing it.
(People Nation gang is bad example, because they are small, not well established, and just fight each other and police, while Cosa Nostra is very well established and respected, even by law enforcement).

[Bitcoin-hotep]

I was thinking more protection from other GOVERNMENTS.

UN or USA being the most dangerous to any Libertarian style community.

and wasn't thinking just "guns" as a method of protection, negotiations treaties various weapons, support from the "right country", laws ETC.

Well of course we would start making treaties I didn't realize that that is what you meant I was thinking more about pirates

We would start by offering foreign aid and purchasing land to open embassies in various countries Then diplomatic relations would just kinda fall in place I posted about this a few posts back Hold on

Nation Building:At one stage,[when?] nation-building referred to the efforts of newly-independent nations, notably the nations of Africa but also in the Balkans,[2][3] to reshape territories that had been carved out by colonial powers or empires without regard to ethnic, religious, or other boundaries.[4] These reformed states would then become viable and coherent national entities.[5]
Nation-building includes the creation of national paraphernalia such as flags, anthems, national days, national stadiums, national airlines, national languages, and national myths.[6][7] At a deeper level, national identity needed to be deliberately constructed by molding different ethnic groups into a nation, especially since in many newly established states colonial practices of divide and rule had resulted in ethnically heterogeneous populations.[8]
However, many new states were plagued by "tribalism", rivalry between ethnic groups within the nation. This sometimes resulted in their near-disintegration, such as the attempt by Biafra to secede from Nigeria in 1970, or the continuing demand of the Somali people in the Ogaden region of Ethiopia for complete independence. In Asia, the disintegration of India into Pakistan and Bangladesh is another example where ethnic differences, aided by geographic distance, tore apart a post-colonial state. The Rwandan genocide as well as the recurrent problems experienced by the Sudan can also be related to a lack of ethnic, religious, or racial cohesion within the nation. It has often proved difficult to unite states with similar ethnic but different colonial backgrounds. Whereas successful examples like Cameroon do exist, failures like Senegambia Confederation demonstrate the problems of uniting Francophone and Anglophone territories.

Jus sanguinis: (Latin: right of blood) is a principle of nationality law by which citizenship is not determined by place of birth but by having one or both parents who are citizens of the state. Children at birth may automatically be citizens if their parents have state citizenship or national identities of ethnic, cultural or other origins.[1] Citizenship can also apply to children whose parents belong to a diaspora and were not themselves citizens of the state conferring citizenship. This principle contrasts with jus soli (Latin: right of soil).[2]
At the end of the 19th century, the French-German debate on nationality saw the French, such as Ernest Renan, oppose the German conception, exemplified by Johann Fichte, who believed in an "objective nationality", based on blood, race or language. Renan's republican conception, but perhaps also the presence of a German-speaking population in Alsace-Lorraine, explains France's early adoption of jus soli. Many nations have a mixture of jus sanguinis and jus soli, including the United States, Canada, Israel, Greece, Ireland, and recently Germany.
Today France only narrowly applies jus sanguinis, but it is still the most common means of passing on citizenship in many continental European countries. Some countries provide almost the same rights as a citizen to people born in the country, without actually giving them citizenship. An example is Indfødsret in Denmark, which provides that upon reaching 18, non-citizen residents can decide to take a test to gain citizenship.
Some modern European states which arose out dissolved empires, like the Austro-Hungarian or Ottoman, have huge numbers of ethnic populations outside of their new 'national' boundaries, as do most of the former Soviet states. Such long-standing diasporas do not conform to codified 20th-century European rules of citizenship.
In many cases, jus sanguinis rights are mandated by international treaty, with citizenship definitions imposed by the international community. In other cases, minorities are subject to legal and extra-legal persecution and choose to immigrate to their ancestral home country. States offering jus sanguinis rights to ethnic citizens and their descendants include Italy, Greece, Turkey, Bulgaria, and Romania. Each is required by international treaty to extend those rights.

International Law:International law is the set of rules generally regarded and accepted as binding in relations between states and between nations.[1][2] It serves as a framework for the practice of stable and organized international relations.[3] International law differs from state-based legal systems in that it is primarily applicable to countries rather than to private citizens. National law may become international law when treaties delegate national jurisdiction to supranational tribunals such as the European Court of Human Rights or the International Criminal Court. Treaties such as the Geneva Conventions may require national law to conform.
Much of international law is consent-based governance. This means that a state member of the international community is not obliged to abide by this type of international law, unless it has expressly consented to a particular course of conduct.[4] This is an issue of state sovereignty. However, other aspects of international law are not consent-based but still are obligatory upon state and non-state actors such as customary international law and peremptory norms (jus cogens)

[bryant.coleman]

Not true. Cosa Nostra grey market economy is second biggest economy in Italy. True, they avoid taxes, but much of what they sell is not strictly illegal (they do make counterfeit things), and they actually earn a lot of money to support themselves without parasiting on government.

Cosa Nostra gets more than 50% of their revenue from extortion. Most of the remaining comes from smuggling illegal immigrants, illegally dumping rubbish, and female trafficking.

[Bitcoin-hotep]

Here it is

Embassy: A diplomatic mission is a group of people from one state or an international inter-governmental organisation (such as the United Nations or Bitcoin) present in another state to represent the sending state/organisation officially in the receiving state. In practice, a diplomatic mission usually denotes the resident mission, namely the office of a country's diplomatic representatives in the capital city of another country. As well as being a diplomatic mission to the country in which it is situated, it may also be a non-resident permanent mission to one or more other countries. There are thus resident and non-resident embassies

Nation State:The nation state is a state that self-identifies as deriving its political legitimacy from serving as a sovereign entity for a nation as a sovereign territorial unit.[1] The state is a political and geopolitical entity; the nation is a cultural and/or ethnic entity. The term "nation state" implies that the two geographically coincide. Nation state formation took place at different times in different parts of the world, but has become the dominant form of state organization.
The concept and actuality of the nation state can be compared and contrasted with that of the multinational state, city state,[2][3][4] empire, confederation, and other state forms with which it may overlap. The key distinction from the other forms is the identification of a people with a polity.

[Bitcoin-hotep]

Also we could come in after natural disasters and offer homes to anyone that would like to come aboard Ex: Katrina and other Hurricanes, Tsunamis etc

It would make news the first few times then it would just be the way the world worked after a short time