Proof Of Stake Coins are killing this community

[nmersulypnem]

We are being led way off-field by promoting Proof Of Stake coins in this community.  While I understand there is a efficiency problem with PoW coins, all we are doing by using PoS is to give altcoins a bad name.  They inherently make the rich richer and keep the poor poorer.   I understand the burning desire to reward the early adopters, but we are turning into a bunch of vultures rather than creating a coin that fixes Bitcoin's problems.

1.  PoS creates even higher volatility than what we are seeing in Bitcoin by concentrating wealth and dissuading actual spend.
2.  PoS encourages pump-and-dump, and members are behaving like they've never heard of a pyramid scheme before.  "psst, the more you promote the product, the more we'll give you.  Oh, and the more you buy, the more you can make."  WTF!
3.  PoW doesn't have to be useless computation.  Sunny has proved this with Primecoin (although it's not the *most* useful thing) - I'm keeping an eye out for a better copy of Primecoin.


What do we *REALLY* need?
1.  A coin with a 5sec block time for real-world transactions.
2.  A coin with a rate of inflation that is on par with economic growth.
3.  A coin that support multi-hash signing so that we can embed a distributed exchange in the program.

[cryptohunter]

But a lot of pos is like 2% annual? you can make 10% trading daily?

[nmersulypnem]

But a lot of pos is like 2% annual? you can make 10% trading daily?

What does this mean?

[miztaziggy]

Totally agree with you here.

The main flaw for me is POS encourages hoarding by design.

Also having a vast majority of coins with a few of the wealthiest users creates a high chance of a massive crash if they ever liquidate their stock.


But I do love how these early adopters pretend none of this is an issue, at least until they sell off their coins for BTC.

[bizz]

We are being led way off-field by promoting Proof Of Stake coins in this community.  While I understand there is a efficiency problem with PoW coins, all we are doing by using PoS is to give altcoins a bad name.  They inherently make the rich richer and keep the poor poorer.   I understand the burning desire to reward the early adopters, but we are turning into a bunch of vultures rather than creating a coin that fixes Bitcoin's problems.

1.  PoS creates even higher volatility than what we are seeing in Bitcoin by concentrating wealth and dissuading actual spend.
2.  PoS encourages pump-and-dump, and members are behaving like they've never heard of a pyramid scheme before.  "psst, the more you promote the product, the more we'll give you.  Oh, and the more you buy, the more you can make."  WTF!
3.  PoW doesn't have to be useless computation.  Sunny has proved this with Primecoin (although it's not the *most* useful thing) - I'm keeping an eye out for a better copy of Primecoin.


What do we *REALLY* need?
1.  A coin with a 5sec block time for real-world transactions.
2.  A coin with a rate of inflation that is on par with economic growth.
3.  A coin that support multi-hash signing so that we can embed a distributed exchange in the program.

Rich ASIC farm owner gets poorer?

Poor CPU owner gets richer?

[extro24]

Freicoin?

[kelsey]

and in POW the rich don't get richer 

[colinistheman]

and in POW the rich don't get richer  

Not exponentially. They only get richer if the coin value goes up. At least proof of work early adopters don't get more coins for doing nothing.

Unlike this system:

"Peercoin is designed so that it will theoretically experience a steady 1% "decentralized" inflation per year (inflation for each user is proportional to the number of coins they have), yielding an unlimited number of coins. This is a combined result of the proof-of-stake minting process, and scaling of mining difficulty with popularity.[1] Although Peercoin technically has a cap of 2 billion coins, it is only for consistency checking, and the cap is unlikely to be reached for the foreseeable future. If the cap were to be reached, it could easily be raised, hence for all practical purposes Peercoin can be considered to have inflation of 1% per year, with a limitless money supply."

- Referenced Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peercoin

[qbits]

What do we *REALLY* need?
1.  A coin with a 5sec block time for real-world transactions.
2.  A coin with a rate of inflation that is on par with economic growth.
3.  A coin that support multi-hash signing so that we can embed a distributed exchange in the program.

+1

Spot on. I would add just one thing: needs to be distributed, hence block must be generated with consumer grade equipment. If you allow specialized hardware then distributed network goes out the window.

[kelsey]

and in POW the rich don't get richer  

Not exponentially. They only get richer if the coin value goes up. At least proof of work early adopters don't get more coins for doing nothing.

I was refering to the cost of mining equip, kinda think now it takes alot of $$$ to mine btc.

[wakasaki808]

and in POW the rich don't get richer  

Not exponentially. They only get richer if the coin value goes up. At least proof of work early adopters don't get more coins for doing nothing.

I was refering to the cost of mining equip, kinda think now it takes alot of $$$ to mine btc.

Don't forget that the people with mining equip will make a LOAD more than people that try to mine from their home laptop, certainly the ones that contain Nvidia graphics for gaming where we get half or less of the hashes compared to someone that had an AMD Graphics card.

Maybe someone should create a coin that favors Nvidia graphics over AMD graphics, if that is even possible.

Also don't forget how early on in any AltCoin's life that follow the LTC/BTC trail how someone with a miner compares to someone without one, either by pool or soloing during the low difficulty phase of a coin.

[dzarmush]

Orly? Poor will get richer mining Btc? Shouldn't they find $5-6K on a miner, wait two months for delivery and hope not to lose everything because of delays?

Nxt is the only real chance for poor to earn some good money now.

Proof Of Stake Coins are probably killing all those lousy clones.

Total USD Transaction — 38,783,623. Top 5 crypto-coins by market share representing 95% of the Crypto-coin market.
Bitcoin: 69%
Litecoin: 21%
Peercoin: 2.5%
Namecoin: 1.4%
Nxt : 1.2%

[Wilhelm]

They should make a coin that decays back to the foundation account or miners if not used. This would solve the problem of coins that ended up in limbo accounts (retreivable) and stimulate trading, spending and the economy
The foundation can then use this money to invest in better utilities and marketing or if miners retreive them it will still make sense to mine.

PM me for a deal on the rights to this new idea

[goa604]

Nxt is the only real chance for poor to earn some good money now.

What? Scam coins are a real chance for poor to earn some money?

[kelsey]

btw who ever said cryptos were for making the poor rich?

[luckygenough56]

lol mining is a total waste of energy, it's fun whle it lasts but face it it's ridiculous

[Slingshot]

  PoS and PoW/PoS Hybird coins are superior to mere PoW coins in various ways. PoW coins have their edge to in other ways.

  But neither is ruinous to the poor. Quite the opposite if the poor save even just a bit of them.


  As for this Early Adopter comment I can only figure the OP was meaning about the Pure PoS type that has finally arrived on scene (NXT). And yes it's yet another novel approach that remains to be seen if it will be widely adopted. I myself cannot bring myself to add it to nearly 3 dozen types of Crypto I now presently hold and that right there should maybe relieve concerns at least a bit. Only if the price for NXT should drop dramatically do I see any chance of it gaining enough widespread adoption to be able to thrive and only a dramatic price drop would tempt me to even speculate on it at this early stage in the Crypto Game. Yet I could be extremely wrong about that. Still, I can't support it's current price levels, it's simply far too high imo, for that issue, and especially adding in it only has a tiny, sole Exchange with questionable liquidity and also quite possibly market depth issues. There's far too much risk and I am one hell of a risk taker. All those early adopters got a bargain I suppose, as it turns out? But the price isn't even remotely tempting here for myself.


 As for the PoW/PoS Hybird coins. Their hands down my favorite coins. Their clearly and vastly superior to the Original (Bitcoin).

 The competition for not only the Banksters and Governments has arrived, but also for Bitcoin (PoW Types) as well, and that's the PoW/PoS Hybird coins, and of course the other Types too, such as the Pure PoS type.

 Get used to it. It is what it is. And now their is real Monetary Competition to make this all thrive for about 200 countries and 7+ Billion souls. So don't fret, their will be many Crypto Winners, for various reasons.

 And don't get to thinking that Banksters or Governments will ever surrender fully to Decentralized Crypto anytime soon.

 Instead we're going to force them all to better behave, and they will come to appreciate that, but we're not apt to replace their currencies. Instead co-exist with them, and be yet another safe haven, a store of value, and of course an alternative electronic medium of exchange that will be far superior to the old fashion ways of transmitting funds over long distances. We have our nitches. We are the competition. And Bitcoin plus all the other original PoW types have their own competition on scene now.

 Like I mentioned... Get used to it. It is what it is.



Caveat emptor - let the buyer beware!

[luckygenough56]

why they can't just co-exist ? You people like to separate things and make fake polemics/dramas.

[porcupine87]

btw who ever said cryptos were for making the poor rich?

I say this! Many poor can't affort an bank account or do not have the required papers. Inflation puts the people in advantage, which have a high percentage of their wealth in assets but not money. This are the rich.

[GBattaglia]

Just a note; there is a reason we don't have 5 second block time coins.  The blockchain system just isn't capable of that kind of speed efficiently.  There would be tons of orphan blocks and similar.