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Author Topic: The Scam List  (Read 30982 times)
xstr8guy
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December 11, 2013, 04:21:42 AM
Last edit: February 01, 2014, 05:41:42 PM by xstr8guy
 #1

This is work in progress and I'm taking into account all opinions whenever possible.  Companies that claim to be developing and selling ASICs already receive intense scrutiny in this forum.  My goal is only to take community consensus and put that information into a single thread for quick reference.  A link is included, when available, to forum discussions about each company listed so potential customers can decide for themselves.  I will not link directly to company websites.  It has been suggested by shawneric to include direct links to the company websites which may help this thread's SEO.


Beware of these ASIC companies.  They may be scams.

COMPANY..............SCAM?.......DISCUSSION...WEBSITE (caution, offsite link)
ASICMartConfirmed (by AMT)Link
PayonixProbableLink
Xtreme MinersProbableLinkLink
BTCOlympusPossibleLinkLink
Phoenix TechnologiesConfirmedLink
Mining HeartProbableLinkLink
Boscombe PierlyticsProbableLinkLink
SkyminerLabsProbableLinkLink
TechTime ElectronicsPossibleLink
BitcoinRigsPossibleLinkLink
ComputerGnomesProbableLink
bASICFailedLink
CoreMinerProbableLink
HashBlasterPossibleLinkLink
NitroMinerProbableLinkLink


Questionable - May be legitimate but exhibits questionable behavior
Possible - Outside chance that this may be real
Probable - Most likely a scam
Confirmed - Has stolen or attempted to steal money/bitcoin from forum member(s)
Failed - May have been a scam but disappeared or shutdown before confirmed



Useful Links
Previous Scam List (not updated)
Mining Equipment Comparison Table



  • Inclusion to this list is not proof of a scam.  It is meant as a warning to take precautions and do research.
  • Exclusion from this list is not a verification of legitimacy.  If you have concerns about a company not yet listed, join or start a discussion on the forum.
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xstr8guy
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December 11, 2013, 04:22:05 AM
Last edit: December 11, 2013, 08:05:01 AM by xstr8guy
 #2

As a community, we seem to be the best line of defense against the prolific spread of scam "ASIC" companies. Everyday someone here at BitCoinTalk brings a possible new scam (or two or three) to our attention. I think it's time that we start and maintain a list of possible, probable and confirmed scams to protect ourselves from these unscrupulous criminals. And since not everyone who's interested in Bitcoin mining visits this forum, perhaps we can prevent less sophisticated miners from making huge mistakes if this thread were to appear in Google searches for the listed company names.

I'd like this to be a community project and welcome all input on how to maintain and improve this list.

Some thoughts...
- What rules should we adopt to qualify a company to be listed? I prefer that we took an aggressive approach and believe that potential scammers bear the burden of proof.  Meaning, borderline companies would appear until they prove themselves to several prominent members of the community
- Should we vote on who gets listed and what status they should be assigned? Should a new poll be started for each candidate for the list?
- Does anyone have special SEO skills that would make this thread more likely appear in online searches?
- How should we handle disputes from listed companies?
- Moderators, any advice?

Thanks!
xstr8guy
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December 11, 2013, 04:22:22 AM
Last edit: December 11, 2013, 08:48:49 PM by xstr8guy
 #3

These rules are currently only suggestions.  Please feel free to add, refine or suggest removal of these rules.

Rules for inclusion to the list
- No official announcement thread on Bitcointalk. If you're a legitimate ASIC developer you would post here first to announce your project.
- Coming out of nowhere / no one here has heard of
- Will not supply videos / specs
- Unlikely claims re price per hash or power per hash
- Strange or no people on team.  Odd LinkedIn profiles.
- Just in time registering of website
- Response time to emails, poor or no customer service
- Infrequent board posting by official reps or abandoned "Official Announcement" threads

More?



Suggestions for removal from list
- Provide working demos to trusted hero members
- Post clear photos and video of development, production and testing or devices
- Contact/work with CGMiner and BFGMiner developers
- Post an "Official Announcement" thread to this forum and maintain frequent communication with community
- Provide introduction to team with qualifications and background and details of company history

More?
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December 11, 2013, 05:14:09 AM
 #4

You should add companies that have cause problems and cost people Bitcoin to the list.

Yes, I'm saying Bitcoin and not fiat.  If a company cost the community Bitcoin but not Fiat it should make the scam list.

Two I can think of are:  Avalon / BFL
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December 11, 2013, 05:20:26 AM
 #5

You should add companies that have cause problems and cost people Bitcoin to the list.

Yes, I'm saying Bitcoin and not fiat.  If a company cost the community Bitcoin but not Fiat it should make the scam list.

Two I can think of are:  Avalon / BFL

I actually would rather we limit this list to obvious "scams"... companies that only exist to steal our bitcoins and cash.  This seems to be the most pressing issue right now and where most people will actually lose 100% of their investment.  Both Avalon and BFL are actually delivering miners at this moment in time, lol.



Off topic... anyone know how to format tables in BBCode?  This forum doesn't seem to recognize most common BBCode.  I'm getting line wrap and need to know how to extend column width.
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December 11, 2013, 05:25:45 AM
 #6

I agree, we should leave out those companies that have shipped some products. you can say that they have poor customer service but cannot categorise them under scam.

I'll add 4 more.

phoenix technologies - scam confirmed - link - bitcoinminingcenter.com
mining heart - probable - link - miningheart.com
boscombe miner - probable
btc olympus - probable - link - btcolympus.com
xstr8guy
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December 11, 2013, 05:31:24 AM
 #7

I agree, we should leave out those companies that have shipped some products. you can say that they have poor customer service but cannot categorise them under scam.

I'll add 4 more.

phoenix technologies - scam confirmed
mining heart - probable
boscombe miner - probable
btc olympus - probable

Thanks!  Adding.

*Edit - I may take a more conservative approach until we get a community consensus on more recent scams.
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December 11, 2013, 05:39:13 AM
 #8

adding one more

skyminer - very high scam possibility - link - skyminerlabs.com
xstr8guy
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December 11, 2013, 05:42:10 AM
 #9

adding one more

skyminer - very high scam possibility - link - skyminerlabs.com

I forgot about that one.  It's worth a laugh to follow the link!
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December 11, 2013, 07:34:20 AM
Last edit: December 11, 2013, 07:49:19 AM by railzand
 #10

looks scammy

sorry no discussion link that I know of

http://www.ttebitcoinmininghardware.com/#!store/c13wy


edit: another - bitcoinrigs - with scammy behavior thus far

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=366610.msg3915179#msg3915179

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December 11, 2013, 03:39:57 PM
 #11

What about https://advancedminers.com/ ??  Cant figure if they are scam or not.

The representative from AMT cant really disprove that its not a scam, and his behavior is suspicious too.
One day he says he will post a video of them assembling a 192 GH/s but the next he only delivers shitty images.

Their own thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=304605.420


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December 11, 2013, 04:13:03 PM
 #12

Thanks for making this x.  When I saw it come up yesterday I was reminded that I always intended to pick up where Operatr left off with Coin Canary.

I'm not sure if any of these are still relevant, but here is the link:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=176262.0

Mining Equipment Comparison Table                               Bitcoin News                             1nKAizrhGzvLfWBVfX8fGLAs6kxKV7aXM
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December 11, 2013, 04:14:14 PM
 #13

Found this one a while back; http://computergnomes.net/

KnC has no idea who they are, and calling the number results in an answering machine with no company information included.

Glad to see Black Arrow isn't listed here.
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December 11, 2013, 04:41:52 PM
Last edit: December 11, 2013, 07:57:28 PM by Gator-hex
 #14

www.btcfpga.com or bASIC or www.modminerquadstore.com (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=135301.0)

They had a good history of delivered FPGAs, took pre-order money on promise of delivering an ASIC, after a long time passed said the project was canceled, gave back some refunds (don't think they refunded everyone), said the company was sold to someone else, sold more FPGA's under a new domain name, then it went off-line for good after his account was hacked (apparently).

BUYER BEWARE! Sadly Arbitrage Scams are common in the Bitcoin community, they usually start off as a pre-order or group buy with long lead time, which after they run out of excuses, ends up with them either just running off with the money, refunding it in dollars after a rise in Bitcoin's value, or delaying delivery so they can mine on the machine you paid for!  Cry

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December 11, 2013, 06:16:52 PM
 #15

I think I've added everything.  SHWEW!  Thanks for all of the suggestions.

Advanced Mining Technologies (AMT)... what does everyone think?

Let me know if you see any errors. or if you think I should change the status of a company.
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December 11, 2013, 06:27:05 PM
 #16

I think I've added everything.  SHWEW!

Advanced Mining Technologies (AMT)... what does everyone think?

Let me know if you see any errors.

agree they behave questionably, amt; they're part of virtualminingcorp, again no lonk so sorry, a member was ranting about them

thanks for the hard work

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December 11, 2013, 06:51:21 PM
 #17

Hi,
nice thread. should nailed on top of custom Hardware Forum!

Esst mehr Scheisse, millionen Fliegen können nicht irren!  Cool
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December 11, 2013, 07:15:34 PM
 #18

What is the criteria for 'looks scammy'. How about you come up with a checklist of actions/behavior/etc which will assign a rating to a company. That would take out the 'feels scammy', 'seems fishy' out of it and make it based more on facts than feelings.
xstr8guy
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December 11, 2013, 07:31:48 PM
 #19

What is the criteria for 'looks scammy'. How about you come up with a checklist of actions/behavior/etc which will assign a rating to a company. That would take out the 'feels scammy', 'seems fishy' out of it and make it based more on facts than feelings.

Thanks for the suggestion but I've already addressed this in the second post of the thread.  I'm not assigning myself the job of ASIC cop although I've taken the liberty just to kickstart the list because I think it's important to get something out now.

Feel free to help develop rules for listing!
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December 11, 2013, 07:34:43 PM
 #20

Coming out of nowhere / no one here has heard of
Will not supply videos / specs
Unlikely claims re price per hash or power per hash
Strange or no people on team
Just in time registering of website

some random pointers, sure there are more
I've called techtime 'looks scammy' as they sell a Monarch shipping in a month ffs

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