Deception & Misdirection by ZEC co. Forking ASIC Resistance Bitmain Antminer Z9

[dmwardjr]

It will be sweet when they decide forking is a losing battle.

Another "NEW" account shilling.  Having fun, BITMAIN?  I suspect not....

Can anyone pls comment on official ZEN statement on ASICs and changing algo to ASICs resistant, but in a short quick way.
whats the TLDR version?

Thanks.

Potential Equihash Algorithm Change Preparation

Modifying ZenCash to use Equihash-144-5 is doable, and the software development team has started identifying the specific work that would need to be done in order to create and test this change. It would be a Hard Fork change, and for optimal success of the Hard Fork, it would be best to implement such a proposed change as quickly as reasonably possible before too many ASIC miners take over the hashrate of ZenCash.

https://blog.zencash.com/zencash-statement-on-potential-equihash-algorithm-change/?utm_source=blog&utm_medium=social&utm_content=mining&utm_campaign=re+bitmain

GPUs are WAY more available to get then ASICs. To say GPUs are currently hard to get is incorrect. Sure there was a month or 2 when they were overpriced, that was due to the high demand when they had a ROI of 90 days.

Even then you could still buy a smaller graphics card, they were not ALL sold out. The 1070/1080 TIs were the hard ones to get, other models were more available.

What advantage would we have if everyone moved to ASICs? It would just raise the current bar for everyone, reduce us to one supplier of hardware, and starts a arms race. Atleast with GPUs we are all on a level playing field without having to worry someone will have a GPU that does x100 the hashrate for 1/10th the power. All the hardware is relatively close to each other in terms of performance, keeping the difficulty from ramping up x10-x100.

ASICs dont save power, they dont make the network more secure, they are limited in availability, only have 3 to 6 month warrantys, run loud and hot, manufacturers keep a large number of the them for themselves and keep secret other rigs that are far better then sell them as new later while replacing them with new hardware, etc...

This is suppose to be a ASIC resistant coin, why dont you ASIC people go mine other ASIC coins available. Ohhhh ya thats right, you cant make your money back off them ASIC coins anymore because of the difficulty have ramped up so much. So you want to come and ruin Zcash’s difficulty with ASICs to make a quick buck and act like its the future of mining.  I'm HERE to tell you, that QUICK buck is an ILLUSION.

Most who KNOW me, know I've been in the space for a while and have had a LOT of experience with BITMAIN.  My LAST round of ASIC's I bought from them was 42 x Bitmain S7's in late 2015.  All of which I sold in February 2016 and never looked back.  I USED to be the one to DEFEND them when they were attacked by others and I believe many KNOW this.  THEN I TOOK THE RED PILL AND WOKE UP in February, 2016!!!  I did a LOT of research and weighing pros and cons of GPU versus ASIC.  ASIC would be fine "IF" {and it's a big if} the manufacturing of ASIC's were not CENTRALIZED, if governments did not pose a risk of banning ASIC's when they are shipped into their country, [GPU's are not so easily banned; as they have multiple purposes], and manufacturers pulling shenanigans in regards to better hardware while selling the scraps to unwary greedy driven miners trying to make a buck while being oblivious to the true "end" of what Bitmain works towards.  Which is lining their own pockets at the expense of unwary individuals who are being seriously taken advantage of.

[TheronB]

It will be sweet when they decide forking is a losing battle.

Another "NEW" account shilling.  Having fun, BITMAIN?  I suspect not....

Can anyone pls comment on official ZEN statement on ASICs and changing algo to ASICs resistant, but in a short quick way.
whats the TLDR version?

Thanks.

Potential Equihash Algorithm Change Preparation

Modifying ZenCash to use Equihash-144-5 is doable, and the software development team has started identifying the specific work that would need to be done in order to create and test this change. It would be a Hard Fork change, and for optimal success of the Hard Fork, it would be best to implement such a proposed change as quickly as reasonably possible before too many ASIC miners take over the hashrate of ZenCash.

https://blog.zencash.com/zencash-statement-on-potential-equihash-algorithm-change/?utm_source=blog&utm_medium=social&utm_content=mining&utm_campaign=re+bitmain

https://i.imgur.com/Aj94Ray.png

GPUs are WAY more available to get then ASICs. To say GPUs are currently hard to get is incorrect. Sure there was a month or 2 when they were overpriced, that was due to the high demand when they had a ROI of 90 days.

Even then you could still buy a smaller graphics card, they were not ALL sold out. The 1070/1080 TIs were the hard ones to get, other models were more available.

What advantage would we have if everyone moved to ASICs? It would just raise the current bar for everyone, reduce us to one supplier of hardware, and starts a arms race. Atleast with GPUs we are all on a level playing field without having to worry someone will have a GPU that does x100 the hashrate for 1/10th the power. All the hardware is relatively close to each other in terms of performance, keeping the difficulty from ramping up x10-x100.

ASICs dont save power, they dont make the network more secure, they are limited in availability, only have 3 to 6 month warrantys, run loud and hot, manufacturers keep a large number of the them for themselves and keep secret other rigs that are far better then sell them as new later while replacing them with new hardware, etc...

This is suppose to be a ASIC resistant coin, why dont you ASIC people go mine other ASIC coins available. Ohhhh ya thats right, you cant make your money back off them ASIC coins anymore because of the difficulty have ramped up so much. So you want to come and ruin Zcash’s difficulty with ASICs to make a quick buck and act like its the future of mining.  I'm HERE to tell you, that QUICK buck is an ILLUSION.

Most who KNOW me, know I've been in the space for a while and have had a LOT of experience with BITMAIN.  My LAST round of ASIC's I bought from them was 42 x Bitmain S7's in late 2015.  All of which I sold in February 2016 and never looked back.  I USED to be the one to DEFEND them when they were attacked by others and I believe many KNOW this.  THEN I TOOK THE RED PILL AND WOKE UP in February, 2016!!!  I did a LOT of research and weighing pros and cons of GPU versus ASIC.  ASIC would be fine "IF" {and it's a big if} the manufacturing of ASIC's were not CENTRALIZED, if governments did not pose a risk of banning ASIC's when they are shipped into their country, [GPU's are not so easily banned; as they have multiple purposes], and manufacturers pulling shenanigans in regards to better hardware while selling the scraps to unwary greedy driven miners trying to make a buck while being oblivious to the true "end" of what Bitmain works towards.  Which is lining their own pockets at the expense of unwary individuals who are being seriously taken advantage of.

The key word being "potential."  Plus just changing Equihash parameters may not disable the Z9.

For someone who supposedly uses English so well and has so much experience in mining, you sure are an ignorant, racist DA.

No surprise you were banned on the ZEC forum.

What a joke!  No wonder you call yourself Clown.

Be "prowd" to be the first on my ignore list.

[dmwardjr]

The key word being "potential."  Plus just changing Equihash parameters may not disable the Z9.

For someone who supposedly uses English so well and has so much experience in mining, you sure are an ignorant, racist DA.

What a joke!  No wonder you call yourself Clown.

ANOTHER NEW account, "Newbie" shilling for BITMAIN with NO "support" for their side of an argument.  The only strategy they have is "name call."

A real winner here guys.  ROFL...   

[dmwardjr]

Most who KNOW me, know I've been in the space for a while and have had a LOT of experience with BITMAIN.  My LAST round of ASIC's I bought from them was 42 x Bitmain S7's in late 2015.  All of which I sold in February 2016 and never looked back.  I USED to be the one to DEFEND them when they were attacked by others and I believe many KNOW this.  THEN I TOOK THE RED PILL AND WOKE UP in February, 2016!!!  I did a LOT of research and weighing pros and cons of GPU versus ASIC.  ASIC would be fine "IF" {and it's a big if} the manufacturing of ASIC's were not CENTRALIZED, if governments did not pose a risk of banning ASIC's when they are shipped into their country, [GPU's are not so easily banned; as they have multiple purposes], and manufacturers pulling shenanigans in regards to better hardware while selling the scraps to unwary greedy driven miners trying to make a buck while being oblivious to the true "end" of what Bitmain works towards.[/color]  Which is lining their own pockets at the expense of unwary individuals who are being seriously taken advantage of.

Okay.  Then what?  Where do we go from here?  What's the point of trying to get the Zcash team to do the right thing?  There are other options.  Leave Zcash behind.

Zcash is currently the leader of Equihash coins in hash rate and exchange price.  It's TIME to bring GPU miners over to a REAL coin with the advantages of DASH and ZEC combined.  Know what coin that is?

I'm DONE trying to get Zcash to do the right thing.  That's not my agenda.

[dmwardjr]

ZEN, ZEN, ZEN, ZEN, ZEN, ZEN, ZEN, ZEN, ZEN, ZEN, ZEN, ZEN, ZEN, ZEN. etc....

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2047435.0

[dmwardjr]

ZEN, ZEN, ZEN, ZEN, ZEN, ZEN, ZEN, ZEN, ZEN, ZEN, ZEN, ZEN, ZEN, ZEN. etc....

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2047435.0

Got it.  Thanks.  Wasn't sure where you were going.

Sure....   

[dmwardjr]

...

I'm honestly beginning to have doubts ZEC will fork off ASIC; at least in time enough to avoid doing a lot of harm to GPU miners.  It won't be long before we may be forced to mine other Privacy coins that actually forked when others did not.

I will have absolutely NOTHING to do with those coins that do not fork off ASIC.  N O T H I N G !!!  No trading or mining of that coin.  I hope a large number of GPU Miners will do the same.

...

Some problems take care of themselves.  When the Z9 floods the market, and it will, GPU miners will get tired of running their GPUs at a loss trying to mine Zcash or non-forked variants.  Their choice is simple:  sell all their GPUs, or switch.  Let Zcash cede the crypto space to Monero, other serious privacy coins, other PoW coins with a future.  Fine by me.

Absolutely fine by me as well. 

Well said!!!

[hanskan]

Fairly certain that most people scream :"FORK! FORK" not because of principals, but because of pure greed. There is no stopping ASICs whether you like it or not. Adapt or die.

[dmwardjr]

Fairly certain that most people scream :"FORK! FORK" not because of principals, but because of pure greed. There is no stopping ASICs whether you like it or not. Adapt or die.

Spoken like a true "Noob."  So, Pro-ASIC's aren't greedy and all greed falls on GPU Miners?  We have a smart one here...   ROFL...  Be my guest to continue in your ignorance (lack of knowledge through experience).

I wonder how far back you've read in this thread?

Care to elaborate how there's "...no stopping ASIC's...?"

[dmwardjr]

"FORK! FORK" not because of principals...

So, you have "principles" by supporting "centralized" mining controlled by one MAJOR manufacturer?

[shaninium]

Fairly certain that most people scream :"FORK! FORK" not because of principals, but because of pure greed. There is no stopping ASICs whether you like it or not. Adapt or die.

Amen. Gpu miners have had it too good for too long. They buy gpus, make a killing , then sell it for the same price if not more then they bought it for. Try doing that on a 2 year old asic. They are about to find out what real losses can be like.

[dmwardjr]

Fairly certain that most people scream :"FORK! FORK" not because of principals, but because of pure greed. There is no stopping ASICs whether you like it or not. Adapt or die.

Amen. Gpu miners have had it too good for too long. They buy gpus, make a killing , then sell it for the same price if not more then they bought it for. Try doing that on a 2 year old asic. They are about to find out what real losses can be like.

ROFL... You guys are pathetic...  ROFL....

GPUs are WAY more available to get than ASICs. To say GPUs are currently hard to get is incorrect. Sure there was a month or two when they were overpriced, that was due to the high demand when they had a ROI of 90 days.

Even then you could still buy a smaller graphics card, they were not ALL sold out. The 1070/1080 TIs were the hard ones to get, other models were more available.

What advantage would we have if everyone moved to ASICs? It would just raise the current bar for everyone, reduce us to one supplier of hardware, and starts a arms race. Atleast with GPUs we are all on a level playing field without having to worry someone will have a GPU that does x100 the hashrate for 1/10th the power. All the hardware is relatively close to each other in terms of performance, keeping the difficulty from ramping up x10-x100.

ASICs dont save power, they dont make the network more secure, they are limited in availability, only have 3 to 6 month warrantys, run loud and hot, manufacturers keep a large number of the them for themselves and keep secret other rigs that are far better then sell them as new later while replacing them with new hardware, etc...

This is suppose to be a ASIC resistant algorithm, why dont you ASIC people go mine other ASIC coins available. Ohhhh ya thats right, you cant make your money back off them ASIC coins anymore because the difficulty has ramped up so much. So you want to come and ruin Zcash’s difficulty with ASICs to make a quick buck and act like its the future of mining.  I'm HERE to tell you, that QUICK buck is an ILLUSION created by BITMAIN and your own greed.

As you KNOW, I've been in the space for a while and have had a LOT of experience with BITMAIN.  My LAST round of ASIC's I bought from them was 42 x Bitmain S7's in late 2015.  All of which I sold in February 2016 and never looked back.  I USED to be the one to DEFEND them when they were attacked by others and I believe you KNOW this.  THEN I TOOK THE RED PILL AND WOKE UP in February, 2016!!!  I did a LOT of research and weighing pros and cons of GPU versus ASIC.  ASIC would be fine "IF" {and it's a big if} the manufacturing of ASIC's were not CENTRALIZED, if governments did not pose a risk of banning ASIC's when they are shipped into their country, [GPU's are not so easily banned; as they have multiple purposes], and manufacturers pulling shenanigans in regards to better hardware while selling the scraps to unwary greedy driven miners trying to make a buck while being oblivious to the true "end" of what Bitmain works towards.  Which is lining their own pockets at the expense of unwary individuals who are being seriously taken advantage of.

[dmwardjr]

[dmwardjr]

Fairly certain that most people scream :"FORK! FORK" not because of principals, but because of pure greed. There is no stopping ASICs whether you like it or not. Adapt or die.

Amen. Gpu miners have had it too good for too long. They buy gpus, make a killing , then sell it for the same price if not more then they bought it for. Try doing that on a 2 year old asic. They are about to find out what real losses can be like.

Oh boy...  Do you guys NOT SEE YOUR OWN INSANITY???

Your reasoning:  GPU Miners are making too much money cause you ASIC guys fell for the ILLUSION propagated by BITMAIN.  You're OWN GREED clouded your judgement.  While GPU Miners made the CORRECT DECISION to break off from BITMAIN and their MONOPOLY.

NOW, here you go again allowing the grand illusion propagated by BITMAIN to DECEIVE you ONCE AGAIN.  ROFL...  You guys ARE INSANE...  Cause  you are REPEATING AGAIN... ROFL...

You think trying the same thing AGAIN will produce different results.  It's called INSANITY.  No?

I guess you have to learn the hard way like I did.    I started with the S1 and stopped with the S7 before I finally woke up.

Oh well... Go ahead... CONTINUE in BITMAIN's grand illusion and see where it gets you.

Gave you fair warning....   Don't listen....  Your choice...

Once again:  This is suppose to be a ASIC resistant algorithm, why dont you ASIC people go mine other ASIC coins available. Ohhhh ya thats right, you cant make your money back off them ASIC coins anymore because the difficulty has ramped up so much. So you want to come and ruin Zcash’s difficulty with ASICs to make a quick buck and act like its the future of mining.  I'm HERE to tell you, that QUICK buck is an ILLUSION created by BITMAIN and your own greed.

[hanskan]

Shouldn't you get some professional help ? You seem.. err.. stressed

[hanskan]

"FORK! FORK" not because of principals...

So, you have "principles" by supporting "centralized" mining controlled by one MAJOR manufacturer?

My only principle is to be better than screaming and bleeding imbeciles such as yourself

[dmwardjr]

"FORK! FORK" not because of principals...

Amen. Gpu miners have had it too good for too long. They buy gpus, make a killing , then sell it for the same price if not more then they bought it for. Try doing that on a 2 year old asic. They are about to find out what real losses can be like.

So, you have "principles" by supporting "centralized" mining controlled by one MAJOR manufacturer?

My only principle is to be better than screaming and bleeding imbeciles such as yourself

And another one who has no real argument to support their INSANITY and resorts to name calling.  You guys are in desperate need of counseling.  Well, I'm offering it here at no charge...

So, seeing that you want to ignore my previous post, let's allow you to see it once again:

Do you guys NOT SEE YOUR OWN INSANITY???

Your reasoning:  GPU Miners are making too much money cause you ASIC guys fell for the ILLUSION propagated by BITMAIN.  Your OWN GREED clouded your judgement.  While GPU Miners made the CORRECT DECISION to break off from BITMAIN and their MONOPOLY.

NOW, here you go AGAIN allowing the grand illusion propagated by BITMAIN to DECEIVE you.  ROFL...  You guys ARE INSANE...  Cause you are REPEATING it AGAIN... ROFL...

You think trying the same thing AGAIN will produce different results.  It's called INSANITY.  No?

I guess you have to learn the hard way like I did.    I started with the S1 and stopped with the S7 before I finally woke up.

Oh well... Go ahead... CONTINUE in BITMAIN's grand illusion and see where it gets you.

Gave you fair warning....   Don't listen....  Your choice...

Once again:  This is suppose to be an ASIC resistant algorithm, why dont you ASIC people go mine other ASIC coins available. Ohhhh, thats right, you can't make your money back off ASIC coins anymore because the difficulty has ramped up so much. So you want to come and ruin Zcash’s difficulty with ASICs to make a quick buck and act like its the future of mining.  I'm HERE to tell you, that QUICK buck is an ILLUSION created by BITMAIN and your own greed.

[shaninium]

Fairly certain that most people scream :"FORK! FORK" not because of principals, but because of pure greed. There is no stopping ASICs whether you like it or not. Adapt or die.

Amen. Gpu miners have had it too good for too long. They buy gpus, make a killing , then sell it for the same price if not more then they bought it for. Try doing that on a 2 year old asic. They are about to find out what real losses can be like.

ROFL... You guys are pathetic...  ROFL....

GPUs are WAY more available to get than ASICs. To say GPUs are currently hard to get is incorrect. Sure there was a month or two when they were overpriced, that was due to the high demand when they had a ROI of 90 days.

Even then you could still buy a smaller graphics card, they were not ALL sold out. The 1070/1080 TIs were the hard ones to get, other models were more available.

What advantage would we have if everyone moved to ASICs? It would just raise the current bar for everyone, reduce us to one supplier of hardware, and starts a arms race. Atleast with GPUs we are all on a level playing field without having to worry someone will have a GPU that does x100 the hashrate for 1/10th the power. All the hardware is relatively close to each other in terms of performance, keeping the difficulty from ramping up x10-x100.

ASICs dont save power, they dont make the network more secure, they are limited in availability, only have 3 to 6 month warrantys, run loud and hot, manufacturers keep a large number of the them for themselves and keep secret other rigs that are far better then sell them as new later while replacing them with new hardware, etc...

This is suppose to be a ASIC resistant coin, why dont you ASIC people go mine other ASIC coins available. Ohhhh ya thats right, you cant make your money back off them ASIC coins anymore because of the difficulty have ramped up so much. So you want to come and ruin Zcash’s difficulty with ASICs to make a quick buck and act like its the future of mining.  I'm HERE to tell you, that QUICK buck is an ILLUSION.

As you KNOW, I've been in the space for a while and have had a LOT of experience with BITMAIN.  My LAST round of ASIC's I bought from them was 42 x Bitmain S7's in late 2015.  All of which I sold in February 2016 and never looked back.  I USED to be the one to DEFEND them when they were attacked by others and I believe you KNOW this.  THEN I TOOK THE RED PILL AND WOKE UP in February, 2016!!!  I did a LOT of research and weighing pros and cons of GPU versus ASIC.  ASIC would be fine "IF" {and it's a big if} the manufacturing of ASIC's were not CENTRALIZED, if governments did not pose a risk of banning ASIC's when they are shipped into their country, [GPU's are not so easily banned; as they have multiple purposes], and manufacturers pulling shenanigans in regards to better hardware while selling the scraps to unwary greedy driven miners trying to make a buck while being oblivious to the true "end" of what Bitmain works towards.  Which is lining their own pockets at the expense of unwary individuals who are being seriously taken advantage of.

Theres a lot you dont know about asics if the last one you bought was in 2015. I mine on gpus too, i dont hate them , i just know their beat. They are inefficient and becoming more obsolete every month. Cn7 is already being mined on FPGAs. Unforkable FPGAs should be a gpu miners worst nightmare once they hit in numbers, not asics.

Do you think coin devs have the money and the time to keep forking over and over, just to keep die hard gpu miners happy? they will inevitably give in, their projects goals will come first. They get paid either way with the block reward. If they dont like it they can switch to x16r/s.

Dont you think cpu miners had the same beef with gpu s ruining their profits back at the start of the decade. Everyone has a cpu, but not everyone has a killer gpu or 6. Gpu s are still overpriced and gamers hate the lot of ya. If asics wont destroy gpu mining then FPGAs definately will.

Most people dont care about manufacturer centralization , they dont mine for free just to support a decentralized network , they mine for a profit , with the most profitable pool on the most profitable hardware whoever hosts or makes it they dont care. If they do support a network that isnt the most profitable then they just expect an even bigger profit when they dump their coins on a pump and move on.

A quick buck is an illusion?, tell that to early x3 owners, their laughing and probably even thanking downrampers like you who scared off a majority of potential buyers of the x3, reducing difficulty and increasing their profits, theyd be close to ROI if not already and they could still sell their rig for a profit. Yes s*** will hit the fan on the 30th but by then everything they mine will be complete profit or soon to be even if it isnt much.

In a perfect world it would be great if asics and fpgas didnt exist. But they do, so adapt or live with it.

[dmwardjr]

Theres a lot you dont know about asics if the last one you bought was in 2015. I mine on gpus too, i dont hate them , i just know their beat. They are inefficient and becoming more obsolete every month. Cn7 is already being mined on FPGAs. Unforkable FPGAs should be a gpu miners worst nightmare once they hit in numbers, not asics.

Do you think coin devs have the money and the time to keep forking over and over, just to keep die hard gpu miners happy? they will inevitably give in, their projects goals will come first. They get paid either way with the block reward. If they dont like it they can switch to x16r/s.

Dont you think cpu miners had the same beef with gpu s ruining their profits back at the start of the decade. Everyone has a cpu, but not everyone has a killer gpu or 6. Gpu s are still overpriced and gamers hate the lot of ya. If asics wont destroy gpu mining then FPGAs definately will.

Most people dont care about manufacturer centralization , they dont mine for free just to support a decentralized network , they mine for a profit , with the most profitable pool on the most profitable hardware whoever hosts or makes it they dont care. If they do support a network that isnt the most profitable then they just expect an even bigger profit when they dump their coins on a pump and move on.

A quick buck is an illusion?, tell that to early x3 owners, their laughing and probably even thanking downrampers like you who scared off a majority of potential buyers of the x3, reducing difficulty and increasing their profits, theyd be close to ROI if not already and they could still sell their rig for a profit. Yes s*** will hit the fan on the 30th but by then everything they mine will be complete profit or soon to be even if it isnt much.

In a perfect world it would be great if asics and fpgas didnt exist. But they do, so adapt or live with it.

I have PLENTY of friends with S9's and L3's as well dude.  A good friend of mine has total of 300 S9's and L3's who also GPU mines.  I'm familiar with ASIC's full well.  Exactly what has changed that I'm ignorant of?  They are pretty much plug and play.   ROFL...

I'm familiar with FPGA's as well.  I'm currently looking into them now.

Just Because some don't care about centralization means simply ignoring it; give up and don't educate people?

I'm done responding to your insanity.  You THINK your response has merit and is supposed to somehow refute the insanity I said you're in?  You will wake up to the grand illusion you due time.

So adapt and live with it once the RED PILL is forced down your throat.  It's a LOT easier if you will take it willingly.  It appears you're going to have it forced fed down your throat in due time and you're NOT going to like it.

[shaninium]

"FORK! FORK" not because of principals...

Amen. Gpu miners have had it too good for too long. They buy gpus, make a killing , then sell it for the same price if not more then they bought it for. Try doing that on a 2 year old asic. They are about to find out what real losses can be like.

So, you have "principles" by supporting "centralized" mining controlled by one MAJOR manufacturer?

My only principle is to be better than screaming and bleeding imbeciles such as yourself

And another one who has no real argument to support their INSANITY and resorts to name calling.  You guys are in desperate need of counseling.  Well, I'm offering it here at no charge...

So, seeing that you want to ignore my previous post, let's allow you to see it once again:

Do you guys NOT SEE YOUR OWN INSANITY???

Your reasoning:  GPU Miners are making too much money cause you ASIC guys fell for the ILLUSION propagated by BITMAIN.  Your OWN GREED clouded your judgement.  While GPU Miners made the CORRECT DECISION to break off from BITMAIN and their MONOPOLY.

NOW, here you go AGAIN allowing the grand illusion propagated by BITMAIN to DECEIVE you.  ROFL...  You guys ARE INSANE...  Cause you are REPEATING it AGAIN... ROFL...

You think trying the same thing AGAIN will produce different results.  It's called INSANITY.  No?

I guess you have to learn the hard way like I did.    I started with the S1 and stopped with the S7 before I finally woke up.

Oh well... Go ahead... CONTINUE in BITMAIN's grand illusion and see where it gets you.

Gave you fair warning....   Don't listen....  Your choice...

Once again:  This is suppose to be an ASIC resistant algorithm, why dont you ASIC people go mine other ASIC coins available. Ohhhh, thats right, you can't make your money back off ASIC coins anymore because the difficulty has ramped up so much. So you want to come and ruin Zcash’s difficulty with ASICs to make a quick buck and act like its the future of mining.  I'm HERE to tell you, that QUICK buck is an ILLUSION created by BITMAIN and your own greed.

I wont deny that asics can be risky. The d3 was a shocker, and the a3 almost didnt make it to ROI on some batches, bitmain can be risky. But on the right batches, bought at sensible times, most have been very profitable.

You shouldnt have stopped at the s7, the s9 was a goldmine if you bought it in the first few months, and they were readily available.

 If you dont have the patience to wait for batch releases then people can miss out, sure you could buy gpus anytime, anyday but that availability doesnt allow you to sell a gpu like you could sell a  baikal giant b at 15k now does it.