Deception & Misdirection by ZEC co. Forking ASIC Resistance Bitmain Antminer Z9

[TunerDude007]

This subject needs to remain on top. As a warning to greedy devs.

Sounds like GPU miners like yourself are the greedy ones?

Another ASIC dog unmasked "cryptotore"
Bitcointalk:
Show the last topics started by this person.

"Hi,
I would like some help with a design to sound proof 10-20 Antminer S9's.
I've been searching but havent really found any good threads on it, hope its ok I create a new one.
This is my goal:
-Be able to run 10-20 S9 in my garage without bothering the neigbours."

"Got 6x S7 coupons valued at 0.05 BTC each available for sale.
0.025 each
0.12 for all"

Why dont you go, and start and support a ASIC coin  - SOB.

And YES i will proudly say I am nice size GPU miner and I supported a lot of projects since 2012 with donations to devs and to list coins on exchanges. Also, as for many here mining is my hobby. I dont drink, smoke or party and money is not the most important think in my life. in blockchain i see future for better world. where a GPU owner/miner in afrika or asia could provide for his family without sale his kidney to a greedy F...k like you.
WHAT DID YOU DO TO THE CRYPTO COMMUNITY, BESIDE PROFITING OF COINS, THAT OTHER MEMBERS OF THIS FORUM SUPPORTED FROM THE BEGINING?

So because he mines with ASICs hes a bad person?

P.S. Its actually cheaper for someone in a third world country to buy and run an ASIC than it is to build a MUCH MORE expensive GPU system that requires paying 4-5x the amount of import duties and makes less profit. Maybe you should spend less time dreaming of a better world and more time paying attention to the reality of this one. So you can proudly say you are a GPU miner even though it is meaningless at least you can pat yourself on the back. You have no fundamental grasp of how mining works yet you come here talking shit to someone with more skin in the game that you can ever afford to have.

The stupidity in this thread is overwhelming.

As you say "The stupidity in this thread is overwhelming"


So then why are you here??

[whoismoses]

If there were actually a market for some person in a 3rd world country to send bitmain (or someone else) $75 worth of BTC, LTC, BCH and in turn bitmain (or someone else) to send them a tiny little miner that could mine something... trust me... bitmain (or someone else) would make it happen.

It is a misconception some people think about the whole thing. I would not blame the troll or even bitmain for that, blame should be on coin developers, they have the power to do anything they like given the consensus.

As off topic, zec has been pumping and right now is the best time to dump all the zec you trolls have for xmr or any other gpu only coin.

Also you trolls should never support asic coins and that is to send a message to future coin developers.

^^^^^^^^^ Sometimes you are wise, this is one of those times.

[cryptomined]

As off topic, zec has been pumping and right now is the best time to dump all the zec you trolls have for xmr or any other gpu only coin.

That's what ive been telling people today, best day to dump zec and pick up some better bags.

Remember the D3, remember the L3... bitmain flooded the market with these...  they are room heaters/door stoppers today

at a limit of 50 per customer the market will soon be flooded with Z9 mini's... they will quickly be as unprofitable as a D3...

then will come the Z9 Monster with 10X hashrate of the mini - rinse and repeat....

the only coin that remains somewhat profitable with an ASIC today is bitcoin and that is only because the markets need bitcoin as the trading peg...
if bitcoin wasn't the petro-crypto... the bitcoin asics would probably also be paperweights

and remember 2 years ago, ROI on a bitcoin ASIC was what ... never???

[Metroid]

That's what ive been telling people today, best day to dump zec and pick up some better bags.

I myself think that will never have or be a better opportunity to sell zec than right now, I dont have any but if i had, would sell everything right now.

[hanskan]

You guys are blinded by your own greed and it is hilarious. The only reason you want it to stay GPU is because you dont want to spend money upgrade equipment.

ASICs are a good thing. They strengthen the network ten fold over GPU hashrate. They are cheaper to buy and run than a GPU mining rig.

You guys talking about how you supported the project by mining it are so full of crap. You mined it to make a profit, you dont care about the direction of the coin until it isnt making enough money for you.

You talk about how BTCP, BTG and BitcoinZ are forking away from it. Who cares? They are shitcoins cloned off of other peoples hard work. Zcash actually brought something original to the table, being the first coin to incorporate zk-Snarks and its zero knowledge proof.

Also this crazy idea that miners were "used" to build the hashrate to be good enough for an ASIC? What kind of idiocy is this? Go look up Bytom.....a coin that was unminable until the ASIC came out from bitmain that was developed in concert with the Bytom team.


I mean how have you been taken advantage of? You mined coins and got paid right? You chose to do that, you profited from it, now you are crying about it. The hypocrisy is undeniable.

These wild conspiracy theories should be scrubbed from this forum before some poor fool reads it and believes all of this garbage.

Could not agree more. I am getting 90%+ money back for my 1080ti-s that i bought a year ago and switching to Asics. Cheaper to buy, cheaper to run, more efficient, what's not to like ?

[cryptotore]

This subject needs to remain on top. As a warning to greedy devs.

Sounds like GPU miners like yourself are the greedy ones?

Another ASIC dog unmasked "cryptotore"
Bitcointalk:
Show the last topics started by this person.

"Hi,
I would like some help with a design to sound proof 10-20 Antminer S9's.
I've been searching but havent really found any good threads on it, hope its ok I create a new one.
This is my goal:
-Be able to run 10-20 S9 in my garage without bothering the neigbours."

"Got 6x S7 coupons valued at 0.05 BTC each available for sale.
0.025 each
0.12 for all"

Why dont you go, and start and support a ASIC coin  - SOB.

And YES i will proudly say I am nice size GPU miner and I supported a lot of projects since 2012 with donations to devs and to list coins on exchanges. Also, as for many here mining is my hobby. I dont drink, smoke or party and money is not the most important think in my life. in blockchain i see future for better world. where a GPU owner/miner in afrika or asia could provide for his family without sale his kidney to a greedy F...k like you.
WHAT DID YOU DO TO THE CRYPTO COMMUNITY, BESIDE PROFITING OF COINS, THAT OTHER MEMBERS OF THIS FORUM SUPPORTED FROM THE BEGINING?

Lol!

Here's some facts:

I've been a GPU miner since Q2 2013.

Here's a pic of one of my first rigs:


The very first block I found was LTC block number 340717.


I was very active in the wemineltc community, helping a lot of newbies get started.
I donated/lost a lot of btc through btcjam..
I've even sold some very cheap btc to Tim Draper. What more do you want from me?

I currently have:
13x S9
1x L3+
1x D3
2x B3
6x Z9 mini on order
2x E3 on order
26x RX580
65x RX570
12x 1080ti
2x 1070ti
1x Vega64

And yes, I've been buying asics since antminer s1. I will continue buying asics.
I'm actually building a container this summer to host 100kW of ASIC's.
I will source more GPU's when requirements for level 4 supplier in the sonm.io network is ready

You mad?

[B1tUnl0ck3r]

I hope Bitmain will do at least 1 pump, then I get rid of my last 199 Zcash  

Since last Monday over to Monero, after more then a year of all my rigs on Zcash.
I know, you can expect a lot in Crypto, but this ?  

they did !!! as expected... but who knows... they have deep pockets and it may just be the beginning.... or the end !

Hey everyone, I recently did this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPdnG03eI58) showing some of the recent Deception and Misdirection that the ZCash team has pushed on us all over the last 1.5 years and ofcoarse more recently over the last week with the announcement of the Z9.

....

Yes, Zcash is a scam, always has. Why? first the trusted stepup is completely unreliable from the get go, but now with all the behaviors that you documented... it is total unconsciousness to support this chain in anyway.

ZEC is beautiful example of how a shitcoin can get a high valuation...

Furthermore the behavior, and censorship is totally unacceptable. it's the virus musk(it), a very contagious illness, made of arrogance and lack of respect for investors.

and there is zero decentralization with this coin, everything rest on the shoulder of a censoring master... what a shame for those who have been fooled...

the rush for the exit is going to be fun .

Very true if this is supposed to be a decentralized coin than why is one man pulling the strings  

sometime evident questions are left out of the price, but once they return... .

I would like to know what makes asics better at securing the network than gpu's?  
Also some idiot saying that gpu miners jump ship if another coins is more profitable...So do asic miners. You only have to look at BTC and BCH if one is more profitable than the other to mine they simply switch their asics to that coin.

We all saw the posts when zec first started .. making promises at being asic resistant....in order to be resistant you have to actually resist. its so easy to say your resistant when there is nothing to resist against.

I would like to see the 20% paid by the miners put to some good use and use the 20% to pay the devs  for their time to fork away from asics and actually keep their word.

Everything the OP has stated is true and in my opinion if they dont fork away from asics they should be held liable for their lies and deceit. They are no better than Bitconnect it my eyes.

First thing that comes to mind is that when you're a GPU PoW coin, its possible to develop an asic in secret and basically take over the network without anyone knowing.

If you're already on asics (fastest tech available atm), you're not vulnerable to stuff like that.

That's not a pleasant scenario.

On the other side, it's a lot more secure when there's one dominant ASIC manufacturer that already has a healthy xx% of the hashrate and can easly build enough to get over 50%.  Totally invulnerable.

Also does the eth network seem vulnerable? You'd need quite a lot of ASICs (assuming E3 eff) to get over 50.

And how many persons/companies could actually build and design an ASIC that could take over a network like Zecs? Assuming the devs would not treat changing algos like some design of the 8th world wonder, and fork like Monero did?

One poster wrote it earlier...

Why stop mining? if it is the most profitable dump it !!!

and then as he said, nice post by the way, is about locking user in to have captives, that they call "community". with gpus and fpgas you can switch at will, with asics, the algos must be used by other great chain and devs... dispersion etc.

[philipma1957]

This subject needs to remain on top. As a warning to greedy devs.

Sounds like GPU miners like yourself are the greedy ones?

Another ASIC dog unmasked "cryptotore"
Bitcointalk:
Show the last topics started by this person.

"Hi,
I would like some help with a design to sound proof 10-20 Antminer S9's.
I've been searching but havent really found any good threads on it, hope its ok I create a new one.
This is my goal:
-Be able to run 10-20 S9 in my garage without bothering the neigbours."

"Got 6x S7 coupons valued at 0.05 BTC each available for sale.
0.025 each
0.12 for all"

Why dont you go, and start and support a ASIC coin  - SOB.

And YES i will proudly say I am nice size GPU miner and I supported a lot of projects since 2012 with donations to devs and to list coins on exchanges. Also, as for many here mining is my hobby. I dont drink, smoke or party and money is not the most important think in my life. in blockchain i see future for better world. where a GPU owner/miner in afrika or asia could provide for his family without sale his kidney to a greedy F...k like you.
WHAT DID YOU DO TO THE CRYPTO COMMUNITY, BESIDE PROFITING OF COINS, THAT OTHER MEMBERS OF THIS FORUM SUPPORTED FROM THE BEGINING?

So because he mines with ASICs hes a bad person?

P.S. Its actually cheaper for someone in a third world country to buy and run an ASIC than it is to build a MUCH MORE expensive GPU system that requires paying 4-5x the amount of import duties and makes less profit. Maybe you should spend less time dreaming of a better world and more time paying attention to the reality of this one. So you can proudly say you are a GPU miner even though it is meaningless at least you can pat yourself on the back. You have no fundamental grasp of how mining works yet you come here talking shit to someone with more skin in the game that you can ever afford to have.

The stupidity in this thread is overwhelming.

As you say "The stupidity in this thread is overwhelming"


So then why are you here??

nice burn

[marthor]

It's pretty obvious that Zooko took a bribe from Bitmain.

[Metroid]

It's pretty obvious that Zooko took a bribe from Bitmain.

Not only him, every developer who let bitmain do anything they like. I would stay away from all of those coins, also put in that list ripple, stellar and any scamcoin like them.

[arielbit]

either money is involved or ZEC co. is just too proud to admit that they aren't smart enough to make a truly ASIC resistant algo hehe

[Metroid]

either money is involved or ZEC co. is just too proud to admit that they aren't smart enough to make a truly ASIC resistant algo hehe

There is no "truly ASIC resistant algo" forever, if you are a developer, you need to keep updating your own algo 6 in 6 months to render the previous useless. That is how is done. It's not about they are not smart to, it seems they dont want to cause they probably were already bribed by asic companies to keep as it is.

[arielbit]

either money is involved or ZEC co. is just too proud to admit that they aren't smart enough to make a truly ASIC resistant algo hehe

There is no "truly ASIC resistant algo" forever, if you are a developer, you need to keep updating your own algo 6 in 6 months to render the previous useless. That is how is done. It's not about they are not smart to, it seems they dont want to cause they probably were already bribed by asic companies to keep as it is.

bribed or not the their mining cut/tax remains...so why bother?

I was also thinking, why make ETH ASICs this late if ETH is going for POS? the manufacturers must be selling used mining equipment..

...maybe we should look beyond "algos" because being an algo is what makes mining cpu-gpu-fpga-asic compatible..ever increasing DAG sure made ASICs a bit late I believe..equihash is an easier job for ASIC companies.

DAG was something, since you need a hard drive for it..until developers learned how to put them inside GPU memory....waiting for the next innovation 

[Metroid]

DAG was something, since you need a hard drive for it..until developers learned how to put them inside GPU memory....waiting for the next innovation  

Yes it was and the next innovation will be moving from gpus/asics etc.. to a mobile mining/staking coin process, the next step in decentralization will be with mobiles, everybody has it, a blockchain in every mobile.

[arielbit]

DAG was something, since you need a hard drive for it..until developers learned how to put them inside GPU memory....waiting for the next innovation  

Yes it was and the next innovation will be moving from gpus/asics etc.. to a mobile mining/staking coin process, the next step in decentralization will be with mobiles, everybody has it, a blockchain in every mobile.

I'm imagining my mining room full samsung galaxy s9 plus LMAO.

[molivil]

then will come the Z9 Monster with 10X hashrate of the mini - rinse and repeat....

I agree with this statement. Seeing that the Z9 mini consumes only 300 watts while in operation, it tells me that this miner has a small handful of ASIC chips inside. Bitmain has definitely made this miner underpowered, which is a good strategy since it's still enough to wipe off all GPU's anyway, and still give the owners of these miners a reasonable profit. From a marketing point of view it was a great move to not build their most powerful ASIC at first, and instead released an underpowered one at a hugely inflated price with phenomenal margins.

If Zcash doesn't fork, they'll come out with a more powerful variant with a TDP of 1000-1600 watts, and it'll be 5-10x more powerful but with similar efficiency ratings, and probably a similar pricepoint. Bitmain's playing this game smart.

[AlHaymon]

I'd like to share some thoughts on the criticism that zcash is moving away from being decentralized with ASIC equihash miners coming out. The zcash network hashrate is already centralized and has been for a while. Flypool has had over 51% of the nethash for A REALLY REALLY long time, and that hasn't been criticized nearly as much as it should be. Why? Because miners love the luck flypool provides, and the money that comes with it.

[dmwardjr]

You guys are blinded by your own greed and it is hilarious. The only reason you want it to stay GPU is because you dont want to spend money upgrade equipment.

ASICs are a good thing. They strengthen the network ten fold over GPU hashrate. They are cheaper to buy and run than a GPU mining rig.

You guys talking about how you supported the project by mining it are so full of crap. You mined it to make a profit, you dont care about the direction of the coin until it isnt making enough money for you.

You talk about how BTCP, BTG and BitcoinZ are forking away from it. Who cares? They are shitcoins cloned off of other peoples hard work. Zcash actually brought something original to the table, being the first coin to incorporate zk-Snarks and its zero knowledge proof.

Also this crazy idea that miners were "used" to build the hashrate to be good enough for an ASIC? What kind of idiocy is this? Go look up Bytom.....a coin that was unminable until the ASIC came out from bitmain that was developed in concert with the Bytom team.


I mean how have you been taken advantage of? You mined coins and got paid right? You chose to do that, you profited from it, now you are crying about it. The hypocrisy is undeniable.

These wild conspiracy theories should be scrubbed from this forum before some poor fool reads it and believes all of this garbage.

Who the hell is this NEWBIE?  You have absolutely NO CLUE what the hell you are talking about and only worthy of an "ignore."

GPU Miners are supposedly all "greedy."  Yet, this idiot makes no comments as to BITMAIN's greed and desire to control and dominate the entire PoW space.

Simply ignore this ASIC-Shill.

[dmwardjr]

what they should do is, yes, postpone sappling and deal with the ASIC mess right away.  Priority should be given to what they said first, which is remain ASIC resistant, alter the algo to eliminate any threat of ASICs... sappling and any other upgrade came after the statements on ASIC resistance and forking off ASICs.

Who the hell are you to decide how they prioritize their work?  First of all, there is no ASIC threat or mess. There are just ASICs, which are the natural progression of how coins are mined. ASICs are a good thing to everyone except end users that are worried about nothing more than their profits. Go mine some other shitcoins and stop posting this nonsense before someone actually takes you seriously.

Another idiot stating some kind of "natural progression of things."

The developers of a blockchain decide WHAT is to be "natural" on their blockchain and what "progression" is to occur on their blockchain.  If the developers determine they want an ASIC-Resistance algorithm, then they have determined what they want to be "natural" on their algorithm and what will or will not "progress" on their algorithm.

NOTE the following excellent proposal for PROG POW algorithm:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=P6B-ZCyP6K8

PROG POW LINK:  https://github.com/ifdefelse/ProgPOW

All you're doing is proving to the community you're nothing more than a "Shill" for BITMAIN.

[cryptonitro]

Vote submited ... you know my choice my friend