Deception & Misdirection by ZEC co. Forking ASIC Resistance Bitmain Antminer Z9

[dmwardjr]

Yeah but most newbies are simply proxy accounts for asic agenda

Agreed...

so while you are ripping him by simply pointing out the truth another back a mole will pop out.

I'm "ripping" for those who aren't "proxy accounts" who are doing research and trying to learn about crypto.  Some may think it's a lost cause.  I'm sorry, but I don't.

Bitmain is simply really big and can go after coins with no consequences to itself.

Agreed.  The fact that you and I are talking about it now in this thread is a benefit for those [Who are not BITMAIN proxy's] trying to learn.  I simply moderate the proxies and/or those addicted to BITMAIN's illusion.

They are a big business looking to accumulate as much wealth as they can.

Agreed...  I have no problem with that if the best good for humanity was at heart but it's obviously not.

I hang in there and do a little here and there but the truth is they will not be stopped at my level.
FPGAS are not the answer

I agree! "Won't be stopped at our level."  Simply trying to get more on board with what's best for humanity by educating.  Which will hopefully wake up some of them and encourage them to join a project that actually gives a damn about humanity.  I believe ZEN is that project.  My opinion...  I"m still doing research on ZEN but it looks like it fits the bill.

Do you have a discussion going with FPGA's, Phil?  If so, link?

Maybe a new way to spend gpu hash is needed.  Not so much for me or you but for the sake of AMD and NVIDIA

Hmmmmmm, sounds interesting.  Any ideas of how to spend it?

I will continue to mine with my few gpus and see what happens next I did cash a lot of cards out.

Just going to sit and see what zcash does.

I'm kind of straddling the fence at the moment as to whether I should sell some or all of my GPU's yet.  Haven't decided.  It's about to get rough for the GPU miner for sure.

Thanks for chiming in and sharing your opinion, Phil.  You're a respected member of the community.  I took a break from bitcoin talk for a while to educate myself with trading.  I'm back now and BOY things have changed in the short time I was away from here [since the Bitmain S7].

Hopefully, those who visit this thread [who are not Bitmain proxies] might "reason" things out (think logically) and say, "Maybe these two [Who've been around a while] actually know what they're talking about and listen.

Good day, Phil.

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[gameboy366]

As I've mentioned in previous posts:  "IF" ASIC's could meet those......

I disagree...

You are saying that we need both miner and devs to keep check on each other but what we "need" doesn't = what we get.Yes awarness is necessary in the community but the fact is majority of miners (95%+) ONLY mine for capital gains without caring about decentralisation or humanity, just have a look at ASICs sale.

So, you're basically saying, "Lay down on the floor and take it up the..."

We have a real smart one here, fellas.  ROFL...  He wants to be a follower and not a leader.  This newbie has no clue...  He's admittedly saying he cares about a buck and not the best good of humanity.

ROFL...

Again you talk like communists who talks about an ideal world with ideal human beings while completely rejecting the ground realities. It does not matter if I mine for profit or humanity, it's not about you or me, I am talking about community as a whole and my statement holds true even IF I mined for profit only, my mining objective doesn't matter, my statement is true. Peoples lie, maths don't. Now you tell me straight forward do you think that majority of miners mine for good of humanity and not for profit. I am talking about ground realities. You are feeling hostile and now making personal attacks but that's doesn't make you right.

I am not saying that we can't do anything and just surrender to Bitmain. But then there is not much we can do right now. You can and you should spread awareness in the community but that won't make much difference to the big picture. These are time of perseverance. Only technological advancements can bring the changes we want and they will happen soon. Too many GPUs floating around so the devs have a niche where they can capitalise. Soon there will be a trend of ASIC resistant coins and I am sure that solution to ASIC theats are already under progress.

[dmwardjr]

Again you talk like communists who talks about an ideal world with ideal human beings while completely rejecting the ground realities. It does not matter if I mine for profit or humanity, it's not about you or me, I am talking about community as a whole and my statement holds true even IF I mined for profit only, my mining objective doesn't matter, my statement is true. Peoples lie, maths don't. Now you tell me straight forward do you think that majority of miners mine for good of humanity and not for profit. I am talking about ground realities. You are feeling hostile and now making personal attacks but that's doesn't make you right.

Whether or not a miner mines for profit has absolutely NOTHING to do with whether or not a project, such as ZEN, ZEC, BTG, XMR, etc...  decides to actually DO WHAT IS BEST FOR HUMANITY.  ROFL....

All you're concerned with is profit.  That's it... and you admit it.  You're prerogative...  I too care for profit.  However, unlike you, I ALSO care for a coin/project that's a viable alternative to FIAT to help humanity in regards to decentralized currency, privacy, freedom of speech and freedom from tyranny.

[dmwardjr]

I am not saying that we can't do anything and just surrender to Bitmain. But then there is not much we can do right now. You can and you should spread awareness in the community but that won't make much difference to the big picture. These are time of perseverance. Only technological advancements can bring the changes we want and they will happen soon. Too many GPUs floating around so the devs have a niche where they can capitalise. Soon there will be a trend of ASIC resistant coins and I am sure that solution to ASIC theats are already under progress.

You keep contradicting yourself.  On one hand you say, not surrender then you say, "not much we can do right now."  Note: how you said, "right now" to cover your ass.  BUT while continuing to say afterward "...but that won't make much difference to the big picture, etc... etc... etc..."

So what's the deal?

You come on here ridiculing me for speaking out for a viable coin for humanity and an ASIC Resistant coin being part of the solution for humanity.  While at the same time admitting yourself in this quote I made of yours that something needs to be done.

Are you bi-polar or something?

I'm doing as you said, "Don't surrender."  Then, you come on here ridiculing me for voicing my opinions and "NOT SURRENDERING."   ROFL....

[gameboy366]

Whether or not a miner mines for profit has absolutely NOTHING to do with whether or not a project, such as ZEN, ZEC, BTG, XMR, etc...  decides to actually DO WHAT IS BEST FOR HUMANITY.  ROFL....

All you're concerned with is profit.  That's it... and you admit it.  You're prerogative...  I too care for profit.  However, unlike you, I ALSO care for a coin/project that's a viable alternative to FIAT to help humanity in regards to decentralized currency, privacy, freedom of speech and freedom from tyranny.

Why are you taking this personally and boasting about your mining ideals, does that makes you feel good ? This is not about you and me. Neither you know my motivation for mining.
First you were talking about community & miners and now you are talking about the project & devs, those are two different things. Are you saying that it is the job of the devs or founders to be responsible for what to do best for humanity ? because it does not matter "Whether or not a miner mines for profit" You assume and blame me for mining for profit but then say that it does not matter  "Whether or not a miner mines for profit". Contradiction.

You keep contradicting yourself.  On one hand you say, not surrender then you say, "not much we can do right now."  Note: how you said, "right now" to cover your ass.  BUT while continuing to say afterward "...but that won't make much difference to the big picture, etc... etc... etc..."

So what's the deal?

You come on here ridiculing me for speaking out for a viable coin for humanity and an ASIC Resistant coin being part of the solution for humanity.  While at the same time admitting yourself in this quote I made of yours that something needs to be done.

Are you bi-polar or something?

I'm doing as you said, "Don't surrender."  Then, you come on here ridiculing me for voicing my opinions and "NOT SURRENDERING."   ROFL....

You were saying that ASICs were not necessary but how is something unnecessary when it was destined to arrive. You can not go back to past and remove ASICS from existing. Everything happens for good in the universe. It was destined to happen. Our present actions are not decided by us but by our destiny. Only because of Cold war man pushed themselves to their extremes and we reached the moon, it had to happen this way only because it was destined to happen this way. ASICs are just a phase of cryptocurrencies that will be gone but it will only help them. There can't be any other way round.

[dmwardjr]

Why are you taking this personally and boasting about your mining ideals, does that makes you feel good ? This is not about you and me. Neither you know my motivation for mining.
First you were talking about community & miners and now you are talking about the project & devs, those are two different things. Are you saying that it is the job of the devs or founders to be responsible for what to do best for humanity ? because it does not matter "Whether or not a miner mines for profit" You assume and blame me for mining for profit but then say that it does not matter  "Whether or not a miner mines for profit". Contradiction.


You were saying that ASICs were not necessary but how is something unnecessary when it was destined to arrive. You can not go back to past and remove ASICS from existing. Everything happens for good in the universe. It was destined to happen. Our present actions are not decided by us but by our destiny. Only because of Cold war man pushed themselves to their extremes and we reached the moon, it had to happen this way only because it was destined to happen this way. ASICs are just a phase of cryptocurrencies that will be gone but it will only help them. There can't be any other way round.

I'll let you ponder your statements and maybe some day [Maybe several years or never] you'll figure it out.  Your mind is biased.

I'm saying Developers make their coin more attractive by bringing about what you see in the bottom signature of all my posts.  As for everything else you said, YOU figure it out.  You're simply too biased and want to try to justify your absurd logic in posts with me.

It's blatantly obvious you're biased.  So obvious, I'm not going to waste my time refuting everything else cause it's that easy for everyone else who understands to read between the lines.  IF someone else were to come on with an unbiased mind and legitimate statements and/or questions, I'll attempt to explain.  As for you, you're simply not worth my time.

I learned a LONG time ago in this industry, "BE CAREFUL OF MAKING FLAT STATEMENTS."  You've made one after the other over and over again.  Are you a developer?  Hell no...  Otherwise, I know for a fact you would not have made the statements you made.

Ignored permanently...

[gameboy366]

I'll let you ponder your statements and maybe some day [Maybe several years or never] you'll figure it out.  Your mind is biased.

I'm saying Developers make their coin more attractive by bringing about what you see in the bottom signature of all my posts.  As for everything else you said, YOU figure it out.  You're simply too biased and want to try to justify your absurd logic in posts with me.

It's blatantly obvious you're biased.  So obvious, I'm not going to waste my time refuting everything else cause it's that easy for everyone else who understands to read between the lines.  IF someone else were to come on with an unbiased mind and legitimate statements and/or questions, I'll attempt to explain.  As for you, you're simply not worth my time.

I learned a LONG time ago in this industry, "BE CAREFUL OF MAKING FLAT STATEMENTS."  You've made one after the other over and over again.  Are you a developer?  Hell no...  Otherwise, I know for a fact you would not have made the statements you made.

Ignored permanently...

Biased man call others as biased while thinking that they are the awakened one. English is not my first language as you can see so I have some trouble explaining my ideas. Anyway, I am on this forum to understand the psychology of miners due to which I am also mining with few gpu rigs. I am involved with a cryptocurrency project that I think will be revolutionary.

[piratek]

I hope all you GPU users take it up the ass.  ASICs and FPGAs are the way of the future.  Get used to it!

[HashingHellfire]

I hope all you GPU users take it up the ass.  ASICs and FPGAs are the way of the future.  Get used to it!

Heard this same thing 14 months ago.. been two all time highs in GPU profitibility since.. made a bunch of $ and cards are all paid off.

What I'm saying is, you're an idiot.

[gameboy366]

I hope all you GPU users take it up the ass.  ASICs and FPGAs are the way of the future.  Get used to it!

It's the opposite. They are the past not future. Making an algo resistant to FPGAs (economically) is possible.

[Maren]

I hope all you GPU users take it up the ass.  ASICs and FPGAs are the way of the future.  Get used to it!

It's the opposite. They are the past not future. Making an algo resistant to FPGAs (economically) is possible.

Do at least some basic research. It is MUCH easier to reprogram a FPGA than forking a coin to counter them.

ASICs are also much more flexible than you imagine, Bitmain can make new ones for any forked algo before they fork it at a marginal cost to themselves.

The ride was nice while it lasted, but GPUs are just too inefficient to compete on current algos with tailored boards. There will probably be a lot of coins that will develop better ASIC resistance in time but the coins with a lot of traction and developing power will embrace more efficient ways of securing their networks.

They are in it for the money, like us and everyone else. Whoever says anything else is your enemy.

[gameboy366]

I hope all you GPU users take it up the ass.  ASICs and FPGAs are the way of the future.  Get used to it!

It's the opposite. They are the past not future. Making an algo resistant to FPGAs (economically) is possible.

Do at least some basic research. It is MUCH easier to reprogram a FPGA than forking a coin to counter them.

ASICs are also much more flexible than you imagine, Bitmain can make new ones for any forked algo before they fork it at a marginal cost to themselves.

The ride was nice while it lasted, but GPUs are just too inefficient to compete on current algos with tailored boards. There will probably be a lot of coins that will develop better ASIC resistance in time but the coins with a lot of traction and developing power will embrace more efficient ways of securing their networks.

They are in it for the money, like us and everyone else. Whoever says anything else is your enemy.

Forking is not the only option to FPGA resistance. Another guy told me that with FPGAs your limited with the number of programable gates the silicon has. The more complicated the algorithm the less "cores" you can fit on the die. If someone wanted to create a GPU algorithm that was not as economical on an FPGA, you would make it so each round requires a ridiculous amount of instructions, or have the coin use a large amount of different algorithms which take up precious FPGA space. You then take the advantage away from FPGAs because 1) it would require alot more effort and time to program the FPGA, and 2) you can't fit as many cores on it, so the instead of it being 10x as fast as a GPU, you can only get away with 2-3x with maybe a slight increase in efficiency.

[dmwardjr]

Do at least some basic research. It is MUCH easier to reprogram a FPGA than forking a coin to counter them.

ASICs are also much more flexible than you imagine, Bitmain can make new ones for any forked algo before they fork it at a marginal cost to themselves.

The ride was nice while it lasted, but GPUs are just too inefficient to compete on current algos with tailored boards. There will probably be a lot of coins that will develop better ASIC resistance in time but the coins with a lot of traction and developing power will embrace more efficient ways of securing their networks.

They are in it for the money, like us and everyone else. Whoever says anything else is your enemy.

GPU's are becoming more efficient.  However, you're focus is too shallow and doesn't go deep enough.  You say, "Bitmain can make new ones for any forked algo before they fork it at a marginal cost to themselves."  That was at least THIS go around.  Cause so-called "ASIC Resistant coins" dropped the ball on maintaining ASIC Resistance.  It will be different the next time after the FORK(s).

REMINDER:  R&D on a new ASIC for BITMAIN is approximately 6 months.

The good thing accomplished out of all this is finding out which coin(s) had truly supported community (GPU Miners) and which did not.

[Natuhant]

Do at least some basic research. It is MUCH easier to reprogram a FPGA than forking a coin to counter them.

ASICs are also much more flexible than you imagine, Bitmain can make new ones for any forked algo before they fork it at a marginal cost to themselves.

The ride was nice while it lasted, but GPUs are just too inefficient to compete on current algos with tailored boards. There will probably be a lot of coins that will develop better ASIC resistance in time but the coins with a lot of traction and developing power will embrace more efficient ways of securing their networks.

They are in it for the money, like us and everyone else. Whoever says anything else is your enemy.

GPU's are becoming more efficient.  However, you're focus is too shallow and doesn't go deep enough.  You say, "Bitmain can make new ones for any forked algo before they fork it at a marginal cost to themselves."  That was at least THIS go around.  Cause so-called "ASIC Resistant coins" dropped the ball on maintaining ASIC Resistance.  It will be different the next time after the FORK(s).

REMINDER:  R&D on a new ASIC for BITMAIN is approximately 6 months.

The good thing accomplished out of all this is finding out which coin(s) had truly supported community (GPU Miners) and which did not.

Can Bitmain make ASIC similar to the AMD GPU, but with more instruction set for mining?

[dmwardjr]

Can Bitmain make ASIC similar to the AMD GPU, but with more instruction set for mining?

What you're describing is an FPGA.  Even they can be forked out with the proper algo.

With the proper algo, ASIC's can be rendered on an even keel for the most part with GPU's.  Like 1.1 to 1.0 OR 1.2 to 1.0 ratio.  Mainly due to "mapping."

Then it would mean BITMAIN would more or less be replicating GPU's and would have to try to compete in manufacturing costs with AMD, NVIDIA, INTEL, etc... at that point.

Have a look at PROG Proof of Work.  ESPANSE has already said they will use this algo:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6B-ZCyP6K8&t=1s

[arielbit]

All GPU miner here since 2013....If only I can put a lot bigger smile in this damn emoticon 

all your GPUs will turn to ASICs when I snap my fingers..



now imagine the world I'm living 

[arielbit]

the thing is the "crypto sphere" just become bigger..

and ASICs companies want a bigger slice of the cake...FPGAs too

ASIC armies try to say ASICs are the future, dispose your GPUs so they can sell you their shit...business as usual...well my GPUs aren't going anywhere....

....grow a brain folks


personally I want to see an ASIC in person, hold it in my hands, never seen one up close...but will only buy it when ASIC costumers disposed it like trash.....and let it hash to a shitcoin I like hehe

[TheronB]

I still wanna see the look on people's faces IF ZEN decides not to fork.

"The ZenCash development team, in collaboration with the community, reserves the right to review and change the decision to Hard Fork, especially if it is determined that changing the Equihash-144-5 algorithm will not be effective in promoting decentralization of mining."

Just put the anti-progress, racist GPU owners who are unwilling to adapt to changes in mining on your ignore list and embrace the future of ASICs and FPGAs.

[dmwardjr]

I still wanna see the look on people's faces of ZEN decided not to fork.

"The ZenCash development team, in collaboration with the community, reserves the right to review and change the decision to Hard Fork, especially if it is determined that changing the Equihash-144-5 algorithm will not be effective in promoting decentralization of mining."

Just put the anti-progress, racist GPU owners who are unwilling to adapt to changes in mining on your ignore list and embrace the future of ASICs and FPGAs.

And another Bitmain proxy shilling the grand illusion.  

Tell me, how are all of you with the L3 doing now?  Hmmmmmm?

Tell me, how are all of you with the S9 doing now?  Hmmmmmm?

Now you want the Z9; thinking it's the future of mining.  Ever heard of this thing that repeating the same thing over and over again while expecting different results equals this thing called, "INSANITY?"

[dmwardjr]

Also, there's ANOTHER division of crypto currency that makes it tick.  It's not hardware developers.  It's called software developers.  One dominant "hardware" manufacturer (BITMAIN) makes another ASIC to sucker everyone into another insane illusion and this guy argues they are the future.  I'm here to tell you "Software Developers" are going to PROVE to you that ASIC's and FPGA's are NOT the "future" of POW crypto currency.  It's software development that will set the precedence.  Software developers will soon put hardware developers in their place and bring them pretty much on an even kill with one another.  Meaning, BITMAIN will be forced to compete in manufacturing costs with AMD, NVIDIA, INTEL, etc... if they want to convince future would be miners to fall for their grand illusion.  BITMAIN, will only be able to make ASIC's that are 1.1 to 1.0 "or" 1.2 to 1.0 [at best] in power efficiency and hash rate with GPU's.

EXAMPLE:  PROG Proof of Work:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6B-ZCyP6K8&t