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eXme
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December 19, 2013, 08:16:02 PM |
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Also, don't forget the killing these will do on new alts... 100K of them? Nooo problem!
Well, maybe just killing ones like doge.  What type of payments are you going to accept? We are promoting adoption of crypto, it would be hypocritical to accept anything else in our opinion. Yea, so LTC. Btw which exchange site? |
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jasinlee (OP)
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December 19, 2013, 08:20:13 PM |
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Also, don't forget the killing these will do on new alts... 100K of them? Nooo problem!
Well, maybe just killing ones like doge. What type of payments are you going to accept? We are promoting adoption of crypto, it would be hypocritical to accept anything else in our opinion. Yea, so LTC. Btw which exchange site? We are working on finishing up the site now....its our own exchange site Direct shares Web Wallet Pool Coin Mixing No hot wallet |
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eXme
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December 19, 2013, 08:24:57 PM |
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Also, don't forget the killing these will do on new alts... 100K of them? Nooo problem!
Well, maybe just killing ones like doge. What type of payments are you going to accept? We are promoting adoption of crypto, it would be hypocritical to accept anything else in our opinion. Yea, so LTC. Btw which exchange site? We are working on finishing up the site now....its our own exchange site Direct shares Web Wallet Pool Coin Mixing No hot wallet i see awsome, i had such idea too, like universal market where u can get everything u want °° but not enough resources to make it true =) make own coin hehe.. btw i want to make request for one function, with one miner to mine on random coins, for example 10mhps at all, you set 3mhps for litecoin and 7mhps for other crap coin.. that would be awsome.. since some coins cost more $ then ltc sometimes.. btw planing AG? |
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jasinlee (OP)
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December 19, 2013, 08:34:11 PM |
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That should not be an issue with the various coin switching tools available now. Although my devs tend to be a bit anal and will probably want to rewrite the whole thing.....anyway, yeah we had thought of that, and there will also be a auto trading bot built into the site (still needs some clean up) which is currently in c++ but we will probably change that to another language to integrate with the site better. That will help people to close out positions on alts they dont want to hold. But some of these features wont be available at launch, they are just pipeline items for the site once we complete the more important parts. What is AG? That is not an abbreviation I know off the top of my head.
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eXme
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December 19, 2013, 08:39:41 PM |
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That should not be an issue with the various coin switching tools available now. Although my devs tend to be a bit anal and will probably want to rewrite the whole thing.....anyway, yeah we had thought of that, and there will also be a auto trading bot built into the site (still needs some clean up) which is currently in c++ but we will probably change that to another language to integrate with the site better. That will help people to close out positions on alts they dont want to hold. But some of these features wont be available at launch, they are just pipeline items for the site once we complete the more important parts. What is AG? That is not an abbreviation I know off the top of my head.
O sry i tho u can speak ger hehe, AG = Aktiengesellschaft, in UK its LTD./PLC |
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jasinlee (OP)
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December 19, 2013, 08:43:45 PM |
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Ah! No, I am not the german one on the crew that would be the engineering team. We will be Inc. (Its already in process)
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soothaa
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December 19, 2013, 09:01:42 PM |
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Subb'd
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Wipeout2097
Sr. Member
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Activity: 840
Merit: 255
SportsIcon - Connect With Your Sports Heroes
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December 19, 2013, 10:14:45 PM
Last edit: December 19, 2013, 11:03:45 PM by Wipeout2097 |
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I think it's time to overly simplify everything from the looks of it. So, mining a coin valued at under 1 $ is so close to 0 $ you may as well not mine it at all amirite? And if it's not free, your losing money so we should be bartering amirite? And it takes time to do research and setup rigs that you can spend at a regular job, so we shouldnt waste our time amirite?
I believe I didn't over simplify anything, I went to the point. Let's even be more direct: Cost of ~3 Mh/s: GPUs 4 280x at $1200 PSU: $150 MB + CPU: $150 RAM: $40 Extras (3 risers, 1 usb pen or HD) : $60 Total: $1600 Resale value after mining: 50% = $800 Your cost: $3000 Resale value: 0 ? Of course it takes time and effort to setup and research GPU rigs. It however takes stomach to fork $1000 per Mh/s. This isn't Bitcoin ASIC all over again. When promoting and saying that Bitcoin ASICs save power and you'll mine for longer, it was a given that they offered 100x + the speed of a GPU. They offered 2 orders of magnitude better on both power efficiency and speed. Scrypt asics provide the same speed at much higher upfront cost. For some reason that 100x vs 1x is only a minor detail in this discussion! |
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opticalcarrier
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December 19, 2013, 10:20:19 PM |
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where is the website where we can watch for details? I looked in this and in the litecoin forums thread
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eXme
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December 19, 2013, 11:44:40 PM |
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I think it's time to overly simplify everything from the looks of it. So, mining a coin valued at under 1 $ is so close to 0 $ you may as well not mine it at all amirite? And if it's not free, your losing money so we should be bartering amirite? And it takes time to do research and setup rigs that you can spend at a regular job, so we shouldnt waste our time amirite?
I believe I didn't over simplify anything, I went to the point. Let's even be more direct: Cost of ~3 Mh/s: GPUs 4 280x at $1200 PSU: $150 MB + CPU: $150 RAM: $40 Extras (3 risers, 1 usb pen or HD) : $60 Total: $1600 Resale value after mining: 50% = $800 Your cost: $3000 Resale value: 0 ? Of course it takes time and effort to setup and research GPU rigs. It however takes stomach to fork $1000 per Mh/s. This isn't Bitcoin ASIC all over again. When promoting and saying that Bitcoin ASICs save power and you'll mine for longer, it was a given that they offered 100x + the speed of a GPU. They offered 2 orders of magnitude better on both power efficiency and speed. Scrypt asics provide the same speed at much higher upfront cost. For some reason that 100x vs 1x is only a minor detail in this discussion! PSU 150$ for 4x 280x ? please tell me where? for 280x x4 u need atleast 1200 WATT with other parts.. |
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jasinlee (OP)
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December 20, 2013, 12:20:30 AM
Last edit: December 20, 2013, 12:38:02 AM by jasinlee |
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I believe I didn't over simplify anything, I went to the point.
Let's even be more direct:
Cost of ~3 Mh/s:
GPUs 4 280x at $1200
PSU: $150
MB + CPU: $150
RAM: $40
Extras (3 risers, 1 usb pen or HD) : $60
Total: $1600
Resale value after mining: 50% = $800
Your cost: $3000
Resale value: 0 ?
Ok lets go down the rabbit hole shall we. Your supposition is that 1600$ is your entire cost for 3mhs. And lets pretend we are making a 3 chip variant (we are not) which would be 0.90$ per khs, so 2700$ for 3mhs. But no resale value. 3mhs from Fibonacci @ 15 watts. (rounding up) Profit BTC LTC USD Power Cost Profit Difference VS PC. My conclusion is 2700$ vs 3000$ and the daily earning difference is not insignificant. Per Day 0.0269 BTC 0.9339 LTC $18.37 $0.04 $18.33 2.36 Per Week 0.1885 BTC 6.537 LTC $128.58 $0.25 $128.33 16.55 Per Month 0.8077 BTC 28.0159 LTC$551.07 $1.08 $549.99 70.92 Per Year 9.827 BTC 340.8603 LTC$6704.72 $13.14 $6691.58 862.86 3mhs from a PC @ 1000 watts. (rounding down most likely) Profit BTC LT USD Power Cost Profit Per Day 0.0269 BTC 0.9339 LTC $18.37 $2.4 $15.97 Per Week 0.1885 BTC 6.537 LTC $128.58 $16.8 $111.78 Per Month 0.8077 BTC 28.0159 LTC $551.07 $72 $479.07 Per Year 9.827 BTC 340.8603 LTC $6704.72 $876 $5828.72 Now I have been awake longer than 24 hours, but I think I hit all the points. The only advantage I see is the immediate discount of resale value on the PC. But the chances of damaging half your hardware after a year of mining is pretty high so you may end up with a loss if lets say 1-2 cards go bad. Meanwhile our device is not overclocked, runs cool, and is designed to run for typically 20 years +. I also did not account for extra cooling you would need for the PCs if you had multiple. Such as an AC, Fans, exhaust, PDU etc. http://ltc.kattare.com/calc.php Just change the hashrate to 3000 and wattage to whatever you think is realistic. |
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eXme
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December 20, 2013, 12:37:33 AM |
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Now I have been awake longer than 24 hours, but I think I hit all the points. Welcome  Question, when users going to become their miner, after what time of mining? |
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logicsol
Newbie
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Activity: 35
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December 20, 2013, 12:41:41 AM |
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I think you misread the PC cost.
It's $1600.
or $3200 for 6 Mh/s
Or $500 for an additional 3 Mh/s
In other words even with the 13% lost profits from the additional power requirements 2 PC units would bring in about 40% more profit for a 15% base cost increase.
Not a good buy, and that's before considering non mining resale value.
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jasinlee (OP)
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December 20, 2013, 12:47:50 AM |
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I think you misread the PC cost.
It's $1600.
or $3200 for 6 Mh/s
Or $500 for an additional 3 Mh/s
In other words even with the 13% lost profits from the additional power requirements 2 PC units would bring in about 40% more profit for a 15% base cost increase.
Not a good buy, and that's before considering non mining resale value.
Then as I pointed out before, perhaps the people that do not need to save money on electricity would like to be directed to an operation more to their liking. http://alpha-t.net I am sure their products will meet your requirements. The chances of someone even with the technical know how prefering to run and manage that many PCs will enjoy themselves in the process. They are not our target market anyway. Side note: all the calculations were based on 0.10$kwh |
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logicsol
Newbie
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Activity: 35
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December 20, 2013, 01:00:02 AM |
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I think you misread the PC cost.
It's $1600.
or $3200 for 6 Mh/s
Or $500 for an additional 3 Mh/s
In other words even with the 13% lost profits from the additional power requirements 2 PC units would bring in about 40% more profit for a 15% base cost increase.
Not a good buy, and that's before considering non mining resale value.
Then as I pointed out before, perhaps the people that do not need to save money on electricity would like to be directed to an operation more to their liking. http://alpha-t.net I am sure their products will meet your requirements. You aren't saving money on electricity when the cost of your product requires multiple years of use to show it's benefit. Running 6 Mh/s at 2000 watts for 1 year results in 681 LTC at a power cost of $2100. Running 3 Mh/s at 50 watts for 1 year results in 340 LTC at a power cost of $50 681 ltc @ $19 is about $13,000 340 ltc @ $19 is about $6,500 If we remove power costs and additional startup costs of $500 our 2 PCs earned $10,400 or $4,050 more than your ASICs provide. In order for your asics to provide any real saving power would need to cost nealy 40 cents a KwH. Your device needs to sell at around 60 cents per KH/S in order to be attractive from and earning stand point. |
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jasinlee (OP)
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December 20, 2013, 01:05:36 AM |
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We will sell it at whatever price is necessary to cover all the company costs to get started. I am hounded daily to sell my entire stock to single companies....I dont think we will have trouble getting the initial units out. Follow up units will likely be cheaper, closer to the pricing you are asking though.
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logicsol
Newbie
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December 20, 2013, 01:16:37 AM |
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We will sell it at whatever price is necessary to cover all the company costs to get started. I am hounded daily to sell my entire stock to single companies....I dont think we will have trouble getting the initial units out. Follow up units will likely be cheaper, closer to the pricing you are asking though.
That's good to hear. I'll keep an eye out for that. |
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pindis
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December 20, 2013, 01:29:27 AM |
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The math in this seems flawed to me. I'm still a bit intrigued cause it's a ASIC.. And my guess is that there are people out there feeling the same way as me, but with money, so they will just throw off some money for this
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xephyr
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December 20, 2013, 01:31:18 AM |
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Even at the planned introductory price I think the Fibonacci miner is good value. Four R9 280X from Newegg would cost $1700, not $1200 and plan on a 1500 W PS at about $300 bringing total cost of the GPU miner to $2250. So for comparable 3 mHz/sec mining rigs over a year:
GPU: cost $2250 plus $876 electricity for one year = $3100 total cost
Fibonacci: $2700 plus $13 electricity for one year = $2713 total cost
Plan on increased A/C bills for the GPU, not included in totals. For many the Fibonacci rig would be preferable due to less heat to deal with. I know it would be for me.
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SaltySpitoon
Legendary
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Activity: 2590
Merit: 2154
Welcome to the SaltySpitoon, how Tough are ya?
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December 20, 2013, 01:31:24 AM |
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I too am interested, will there be a point in which you will just be selling units outright, rather than taking preorders before the units go obsolete and you start producing the next model? I'm rather excited to see people prove me wrong about Scrypt Asics, however preorders rub me the wrong way, even from other companies that have proven themselves (KNC, Asicminer, etc) Also, will all units be shipped from Germany? Willing to offer me one early for review as a longtime community member?
Hehe, I also wouldn't be opposed, however I dont think I fit the same criteria as tacotime. I'm a lifelong member, but not a fellow dev. |
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