No bitcoin in Iran

[giszmo]

Hi

I'm traveling in Iran at the moment and there is a good reason for using bitcoin here:
Due to embargo there is no international credit card you could use in Iran. Business men told me that their transaction costs are 8% when dealing with the USA as they have to send the money via Dubai.

Unfortunately using bitcoin is not possible for several reasons:
"High speed internet" is available to every Iranian in cities. Unfortunately high speed internet is limited to 128kb/s wich is a problem when downloading the block chain.
The bigger problem arises from the embargo though: many sites block Iranian requests including the sourceforge downloads for the client, google code for the source etc.
I could not find a link to download the bitcoin client here. Could you please add trustworthy mirrors for Iran, Cuba, etc. or just straight stop using pages that block the spreading of FOSS to such countries??

Regards,

giszmo

[1714999726]

1714999726

[1714999726]

1714999726

[matsh]

Could you please add trustworthy mirrors for Iran, Cuba, etc. or just straight stop using pages that block the spreading of FOSS to such countries??

I don't think you'll find "trustworthy" links, since SourceForge probably are prohibited by some kind of laws from doing that. If it isn't from SourceForge, then I wouldn't call it trustworthy.

Another option could be for someone trustworthy (such as Gavin) to host such files and post links here, but I would not expect him to risk getting angry calls from the authorities for this.

There are known ways to become anonymous on the net. I bet you can find solutions if you look a bit more.

[memvola]

How about Bittorrent? Signed packages, including the source code and blockchain can be easily distributed that way. Though, I guess if there is a way to mind people to check the signatures, I suppose it could be distributed using any other channel as well... Bitcoin Bittorrent is especially useful since the blockchain is getting rather big.

[N.Z.]

many sites block Iranian requests including the sourceforge downloads for the client, google code for the source etc.

I don`t think it is websites` policies, it is likely due to restrictions of datacenters or Iranian government itself. Otherwise it is just stupid. Good practice will be using Tor (with bridges, as public Tor nodes are blocked in Iran as I know).

Also you don`t need mirrors to be trustworthy - just verify signature or hash-sum, that`s all you need.

[gopher]

Wait a minute, is not SHA-256 algorithm property of the US Government?

Then soliciting to send bitcoins to Iran would be a violation of the embargo US imposes to that country.

The discussion about distributing software purse is thus purely academical.

[giszmo]

gah, guys!

this is not only about if and how could i get hands on bitcoin now but also generally about how will it ever be successful in iran and cuba where there would definitely be a need for bitcoin.

and no, the bitcoin download is not blocked by the iranians but by sourceforge and google code. they point me to these documents:
http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/sitelegal/wiki/Terms_of_Use#ProhibitedPersons
... oh, actually the desktop client is on github which is accessible but due to limited bandwidth there is little point in getting it up and running for me now anyway ...

and no, it has nothing to do with sha256 as all of sourceforge and google code is blocked here. sorry but that is a reason for me to use other hosters. too general embargoes are always evil.

[deslok]

gah, guys!

this is not only about if and how could i get hands on bitcoin now but also generally about how will it ever be successful in iran and cuba where there would definitely be a need for bitcoin.

and no, the bitcoin download is not blocked by the iranians but by sourceforge and google code. they point me to these documents:
http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/sitelegal/wiki/Terms_of_Use#ProhibitedPersons
... oh, actually the desktop client is on github which is accessible but due to limited bandwidth there is little point in getting it up and running for me now anyway ...

and no, it has nothing to do with sha256 as all of sourceforge and google code is blocked here. sorry but that is a reason for me to use other hosters. too general embargoes are always evil.

Someone could upload the client to rapidshare but why would the blockchain take "so long" even over 128k you should be able to at worst download it overnight

[memvola]

Someone could upload the client to rapidshare but why would the blockchain take "so long" even over 128k you should be able to at worst download it overnight

Because the client is inefficient? The best way to do this IMO is distributing a signed version of the mature blockchain with the signed version of the client in regular intervals. Checksums would be OK too. It's just hard to tell people to verify the executables and blockchain, otherwise it would be a major security risk for the users.

[Raoul Duke]

Well, if sourceforge is such a puppet in the U.S. government hands, i say take the client out of there, because it doesn't seem the right place to be hosting it.

[Valalvax]

You realize you only need to download the blockchain once, right?

[Nesetalis]

source forge blocks countries such as iran out of their own sense of right and wrong. not due to the US laws.

[Raoul Duke]

source forge blocks countries such as iran out of their own sense of right and wrong. not due to the US laws.

Read first, talk later...

Prohibited Persons

You represent you are not a person on a list barring you from receiving services under U.S. laws or other applicable jurisdiction, including without limitations, the Denied Persons List and the Entity List, and other lists issued by the U.S. Department of Commerce, Bureau of Industry and Security, detailed at http://www.bis.doc.gov/complianceandenforcement/ListsToCheck.htm (or successor sites thereto). Users residing in countries on the United States Office of Foreign Assets Control sanction list, including Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Sudan and Syria, may not post Content to, or access Content available through, SourceForge.net.

http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/sitelegal/wiki/Terms_of_Use#ProhibitedPersons

I would agree with you if you said they do it because they fear what might happen to them as US based company/service, but punishing the people that live under oppressive regimes doesn't seem very open to me.
So maybe we should boycot Sourceforge out of our own sense of right and wrong...  

Now I'll never download any other software from there. Imagine they start giving US government access to the source code repositories so they can put backdoors in softwares, for instance bitcoin, would that be a good thing?  

I think this deserves a thread of its own, but I'm not eloquent enough to start it myself probably

[Nesetalis]

hmm, thats news to me. Interesting.

[Jack of Diamonds]

Well, if sourceforge is such a puppet in the U.S. government hands, i say take the client out of there, because it doesn't seem the right place to be hosting it.

This.
People in Iran are not "bad". They are normal people who want to live their lives.

No reason why they should suffer because of the things their government does.
I don't think it sits well with the concept of bitcoin to host the client on a site, which blocks certain people in the world from downloading it.

Every single person in the world should have equal access to the client and blockchain regardless of their location.

[Raoul Duke]

Well, if sourceforge is such a puppet in the U.S. government hands, i say take the client out of there, because it doesn't seem the right place to be hosting it.

This.
People in Iran are not "bad". They are normal people who want to live their lives.

No reason why they should suffer because of the things their government does.
I don't think it sits well with the concept of bitcoin to host the client on a site, which blocks certain people in the world from downloading it.

Every single person in the world should have equal access to the client and blockchain regardless of their location.

And even worse is that they also host the website... Can be seen in http://whois.domaintools.com/bitcoin.org on the "Server Stats" tab.

[Xenland]

Idk if this has been posted but maybe you can find this thread helpful?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=37864.0

[defxor]

Well, if sourceforge is such a puppet in the U.S. government hands, i say take the client out of there, because it doesn't seem the right place to be hosting it.

To anyone who wants to make Bitcoin a bit more global I'd suggest approaching http://prq.se/ for hosting.

[max in montreal]

use open vpn, rent a server for 10 bucks a month and use its ip address. if you need help setting this up let me know.

[ThiagoCMC]

Hi!

 I'm already seeding the Bitcoin binaries, look:

 Bitcoin downloads via BitTorrent:
 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=28689.0

 It have the MD5 files, so you can compare it with the others mirrors before actually open it.

Best,
Thiago

[ThiagoCMC]

Well, if sourceforge is such a puppet in the U.S. government hands, i say take the client out of there, because it doesn't seem the right place to be hosting it.

AGREE!

[Jack of Diamonds]

One magic word: tor

One magic link: https://www.torproject.org

The Internet treats censure as damage and routes around it. Use it.

https://blog.torproject.org/blog/update-internet-censorship-iran

[N.Z.]

Good practice will be using Tor (with bridges, as public Tor nodes are blocked in Iran as I know).

[jackjack]

Yeah use Tor!
You can download Bitcoin but can't browse bitcointalk.org

[jackjack]

The forum blocks Tor exit nodes

At least it was doing this a month ago

[N.Z.]

Yeah use Tor!
You can download Bitcoin but can't browse bitcointalk.org

You should check things before you make such statements. I use Bitcoin and browse bitcointalk.org with Tor only.

This forum blocks some Tor exit nodes only for posting and only to unverified users with less than a n posts (10 or 20, I don`t remember). You can browse forum with Tor freely.

[CyberPhunk]

Also if there is a need, I would be happy to host binaries. Sha and md5 checksums should ensure integrity of the files and there is https throughout at https://bitcoin.org.uk

If you do, I will gladly add them to the list in the thread in my signature

[deslok]

The forum blocks Tor exit nodes

At least it was doing this a month ago

actually they were blocking abusive members via ip which was resulting in the tor nodes being blocked not specifically going after tor

[jackjack]

The forum blocks Tor exit nodes

At least it was doing this a month ago

actually they were blocking abusive members via ip which was resulting in the tor nodes being blocked not specifically going after tor

That's not what I was told, but I never checked myself so you should be right

[deslok]

the relevant threads would be these two
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=17762.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=30367.0
basically abused nodes end up banned temoprarily however tor itsefl it not banned in it's entirety

[giszmo]

Hi guys,

back from Iran I'm happy my thread got some attention and yes, I hope the bitcoin project gets more aware of how accessible it is around the world.

In Iran people use proxies to see the internet without censorship. I will try to find an Iranian proxy so I see the internet through their eyes and get more aware of what websites not to use to stay visible for the people there.

Else: Go visit Iran! I never experienced more hospitality. Maybe 2% do speak some English but I travelled via couchsurfing.org and so I had great contacts - and now friends in all the cities I've been to. Worst thing that happened were people charging me twice the regular price.

[bitjet]

Glad you had a good trip. What country were you coming from?


For now Iranian users could use an online wallet. I know its not a great option but for receiving/sending small payments it would work.

[Xenland]

Hi guys,

back from Iran I'm happy my thread got some attention and yes, I hope the bitcoin project gets more aware of how accessible it is around the world.

In Iran people use proxies to see the internet without censorship. I will try to find an Iranian proxy so I see the internet through their eyes and get more aware of what websites not to use to stay visible for the people there.

Else: Go visit Iran! I never experienced more hospitality. Maybe 2% do speak some English but I travelled via couchsurfing.org and so I had great contacts - and now friends in all the cities I've been to. Worst thing that happened were people charging me twice the regular price.

Go you! I however admire your drive to go to other countries, I always feel like I will be arrested for stupid things that I'm normally use to being legal in USA. Thats why I don't travel often.

[memvola]

Go you! I however admire your drive to go to other countries, I always feel like I will be arrested for stupid things that I'm normally use to being legal in USA. Thats why I don't travel often.

What a coincidence, that's why I don't go to USA, they say it's too strict (compared to Europe & Middle East).

But seriously, foreigners are favoured in the Middle East, you really need to do something very absurd to get in trouble. Just don't get mangled in local affairs too much, which is not easy in itself for a tourist anyway.

[Xenland]

Go you! I however admire your drive to go to other countries, I always feel like I will be arrested for stupid things that I'm normally use to being legal in USA. Thats why I don't travel often.

What a coincidence, that's why I don't go to USA, they say it's too strict (compared to Europe & Middle East).

But seriously, foreigners are favoured in the Middle East, you really need to do something very absurd to get in trouble. Just don't get mangled in local affairs too much, which is not easy in itself for a tourist anyway.

You maybe right actually i may have gotten use to memorizing laws to not get in trouble in usa that i just assume its like that everywhere else.

[giszmo]

I'd rather be a political prisoner in Iran knowing my country can get me out sooner or later than disappear in some CIA prison in Pakistan for years without anybody knowing if I were still alive. Do you really believe USA to be the country of freedom?

Driving by the nuclear facilities in Natanz was a bit weird. I almost accidentally took a photo of one of those AA-guns that are all around it. My driver who himself worked at the facility for a short time got into trouble with an italien tourist who took pictures but all that had happened was that they spent 4h at the police and the guy never got back his camera.
Iranians are not allowed to host foreigners but I slept 15 nights at 5 different private places. Just better not stay at a single woman's house, but I also met hosts that hosted single women.

[Uhlbelk]

Well, if sourceforge is such a puppet in the U.S. government hands, i say take the client out of there, because it doesn't seem the right place to be hosting it.

AGREE!

I concur with this recommendation, but where would the file be safely hosted? I suppose if a trusted up-loader made a torrent but new folks would need to know who that trusted creator was. I suppose the torrent link would be hosted on bitcoin.orgs site and that would be good enough to trust.

[Stephen Gornick]

Incidentally, there was a crowdsource effort to get Farsi translations for MultiBit.  That effort succeeded so the next release of MutliBit will be more useful for Persians.

 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=43616.msg1247525#msg1247525

[SistaS0uljah]

Considering the economic unrest in Iran last week (http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/10/03/riots-break-out-in-iran-as-currency-loses-40-of-its-value-in-a-week/), I think the country is just about ready for something like Bitcoin to help stabilize their economy.

[WorldOfBitcoin]

For a mass deployment wouldn't DVD's with client and the most recent blockchain possible be the best way? I guarantee you there is underground software/movie/Piracy networks throughout the country.   

[caveden]

Well, if sourceforge is such a puppet in the U.S. government hands, i say take the client out of there, because it doesn't seem the right place to be hosting it.

+1

[giszmo]

For a mass deployment wouldn't DVD's with client and the most recent blockchain possible be the best way? I guarantee you there is underground software/movie/Piracy networks throughout the country.   

Lol Underground

In Iran, copyright does not apply, so shops sell packs of 10 or 20 DVDs with all the latest Microsoft software for very fair prices. Not on a carpet in the street but in real shops and people told me, this is actually perfectly legal.

Of course, these packs need to be updated every once in a while and I'm sure there is kind of a standard collection of programs on these DVDs. Bitcoin should get interest by those making these collections. Sad thing is that the blockchain alone will be a full DVD soon and the internet speed of most Iranians that actually have internet is not mind boggling.

[WorldOfBitcoin]

Blockchain is what 3gig? We got a couple years lol. Then its 2 dvd's. Doesnt take fast internet to sent transactions. The real question is who the hell in the bitcoin community wants iranian money lol. If the got up and goin who would sell to them.

Also they got smartphones in iran right? Just need an Iranian verson of blockchain.info's mywallet on Irans "intranet"

[giszmo]

Blockchain is what 3gig? We got a couple years lol. Then its 2 dvd's. Doesnt take fast internet to sent transactions. The real question is who the hell in the bitcoin community wants iranian money lol. If the got up and goin who would sell to them.

Also they got smartphones in iran right? Just need an Iranian verson of blockchain.info's mywallet on Irans "intranet"

The "who wants their money" argument should be answered with "others in the country". If you were wondering, how bitcoins get to Iran in the first place, check out "remittances". If relatives abroad can send in BTC and locals actually pay a mark-up in local money to get these, these receivers actually get a negative fee for sending money in compared to a very high positive fee that they have to pay now.

[niko]

source forge blocks countries such as iran out of their own sense of right and wrong. not due to the US laws.

Where did you get this "information"?

[niko]

gah, guys!

this is not only about if and how could i get hands on bitcoin now but also generally about how will it ever be successful in iran and cuba where there would definitely be a need for bitcoin.

and no, the bitcoin download is not blocked by the iranians but by sourceforge and google code. they point me to these documents:
http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/sitelegal/wiki/Terms_of_Use#ProhibitedPersons
... oh, actually the desktop client is on github which is accessible but due to limited bandwidth there is little point in getting it up and running for me now anyway ...

and no, it has nothing to do with sha256 as all of sourceforge and google code is blocked here. sorry but that is a reason for me to use other hosters. too general embargoes are always evil.

The best and smartest thing for everyone to do is to make noise about thei monstruous crime of "trade sanctions" and influencing the US and EU policy. Millions of innocent people are hurt, some literally killed, by sanctions. No medications, no parts for trucks, elevators, airplanes, no medical equipment, no scientific journals. On top of that, societies are pushed into criminal spiral because all the goods have to smugled in. Speaking about tens of thousands of children who died in Iraq as a direct consequence of US trade sanctions, Madeleine Albright stated, as a US official: "we think the price was worth it".
So, the best we can do is to stop this nonsense. In the meantime, software and blockchain can be brought in on your laptops, and copies can be distributed p2p on DVDs at news stands, video-clubs,  and such.