china just killed BTC and ALTS - It's your own fault -no evolution for years

[Remember remember the 5th of November]

From what I see and what I have learned in the past, taking the $30 to $1 drop and $250 to $50 drop and now we see $1200 to $400something drop, It always comes out stronger. From the $30 to $1 it went to $250, from $250 to $50 it went up to $1200. What we see now is bitcoin wanting to break $2000.  Lets just wait for Wall street to come in, heavy investors and we are back.  I read an article where some financial guy was saying that in mid 2014's we will see bitcoin at $10. That is just not an option and it could never happen. The reason I think so is simply because people are proud. The people here, the hard workers that bring the coins forward and thus increasing the value are the community.  We are the ones that will decide the price in the end, we are the ones who have spent endless of hours trying to improve, trying to help it go forward.  I say that the value will increase when Wall Street enters the market, and it will not be in a bad way, but we have to remember to stick around, and all of us should just hold hold and hold out some more.  We are bitcoin. Do not forget why you started out here, why you were excited about setting up mining rigs and just talking about the future, it is till there, and it is still bright. We just have to make sure and show the govt' and banks that we do not give up easily. Who is with me on this? Guys? I know that bitcoin is backed by the best of people, the creative thinkers and the market experts. Lets do this, nothing is more fun than a good old challenge!

You are correct, but it still took 2 years from 10 do 266, and it took half a year from 266 to 1200+.

[NUFCrichard]

It's down 4% in the last month!
The fair value lies somewhere for north of the current price, China can do what it wants, the crypto world will go on without them

When the west follows suit it will be much harder to go on.

Crypto is not ready for the coming storm. Time to start preparations.

A p2p exchange sounds rather difficult to implement to a standard people would trust it, i guess it will take some time. The exchanges are probably more important for alts than for BTC right now.

Well it's not going to happen in Germany or Switzerland.  I don't know which countries have already made legislations, but there are a few.  Bitcoin will not be banned, maybe in America, but not everywhere.

[meech73]

Oh man, someone has to make ShitCoins, that only have value when the Bitcoin drops...

[Hampuz]

From what I see and what I have learned in the past, taking the $30 to $1 drop and $250 to $50 drop and now we see $1200 to $400something drop, It always comes out stronger. From the $30 to $1 it went to $250, from $250 to $50 it went up to $1200. What we see now is bitcoin wanting to break $2000.  Lets just wait for Wall street to come in, heavy investors and we are back.  I read an article where some financial guy was saying that in mid 2014's we will see bitcoin at $10. That is just not an option and it could never happen. The reason I think so is simply because people are proud. The people here, the hard workers that bring the coins forward and thus increasing the value are the community.  We are the ones that will decide the price in the end, we are the ones who have spent endless of hours trying to improve, trying to help it go forward.  I say that the value will increase when Wall Street enters the market, and it will not be in a bad way, but we have to remember to stick around, and all of us should just hold hold and hold out some more.  We are bitcoin. Do not forget why you started out here, why you were excited about setting up mining rigs and just talking about the future, it is till there, and it is still bright. We just have to make sure and show the govt' and banks that we do not give up easily. Who is with me on this? Guys? I know that bitcoin is backed by the best of people, the creative thinkers and the market experts. Lets do this, nothing is more fun than a good old challenge!

You are correct, but it still took 2 years from 10 do 266, and it took half a year from 266 to 1200+.

That is okay, considering the % increase I can gladly wait until the end of next year, and I am sure that we can break $2000 by christmas 2014, if not sooner.All we need is to fix some things and to not give up.

[prins]

What right does a bank have to deny me access to exchanges? Since theres nothing illegal happening in my pov they dont have the rights to ban it in countries in europe or us.
China is different in the way that they are still trying to control the people, btc was a loss in control for them. I dont see that happening to the eu/us anytime soon unless they declare it being something illegal.

[GröBkAz]

What right does a bank have to deny me access to exchanges? Since theres nothing illegal happening in my pov they dont have the rights to ban it in countries in europe or us.
China is different in the way that they are still trying to control the people, btc was a loss in control for them. I dont see that happening to the eu/us anytime soon unless they declare it being something illegal.

That is right, for example in Germany: BTC exchanges are not illegal if you pay flat rate withholding tax. Bitcoin.de has a BAFIN (Federal Financial Supervisory Authority) License.

[kelsey]

funny how everyone bases btc success on what it is vs USD ...so sad

btc's  been a joke and useless as a currency ever since it went above $USD5

as for those trading who lose out...well you play with fire expect sometimes to get.....well


personally as a trading token I'm havin fun (though I don't trade it against fiat).

[cryptohunter]

We can all hope that china's actions do not spread. However crypto will always be vulnerable until it is no longer vulnerable.

Even this thread turns into a i hope the west or i know the west will not follow suit ......nobody knows

Let's ask ourselves why not decentralise the entire thing and admit crypto will always be vulnerable until this happens?? there is no good reason not to decentralise the entire thing is there??

Sure we can carry on as we are now , but we need a backup solution ready... of that there can be no real doubt.

[roozifus]

What right does a bank have to deny me access to exchanges? Since theres nothing illegal happening in my pov they dont have the rights to ban it in countries in europe or us.
China is different in the way that they are still trying to control the people, btc was a loss in control for them. I dont see that happening to the eu/us anytime soon unless they declare it being something illegal.

It's tricky.

In china the government has more control over banking and they are able to tell the banks what to do.

In the U.S. the government has less ability (and less motivation) to ban cryptos, but the banks may do it anyway to attempt to preserve their dominance within financial systems.

But I think that while these are big issues now, in the long run cryptos will either succeed or fail purely based on their merits. At the end of the day cryptos are built upon the internet and the internet routes around censorship (in all its forms).

[Hampuz]

Satoshi will resurrect and save the day!

[cryptohunter]

What right does a bank have to deny me access to exchanges? Since theres nothing illegal happening in my pov they dont have the rights to ban it in countries in europe or us.
China is different in the way that they are still trying to control the people, btc was a loss in control for them. I dont see that happening to the eu/us anytime soon unless they declare it being something illegal.

It's tricky.

In china the government has more control over banking and they are able to tell the banks what to do.

In the U.S. the government has less ability (and less motivation) to ban cryptos, but the banks may do it anyway to attempt to preserve their dominance within financial systems.

But I think that while these are big issues now, in the long run cryptos will either succeed or fail purely based on their merits. At the end of the day cryptos are built upon the internet and the internet routes around censorship (in all its forms).

A far more sophisticated version of local bitcoin/altcoin  coupled with decentralised exchanges = far less vulnerable - let's get on with it.

[vrm86]

I wonder if paper wallets could have more meaning in BTC (or other coins) circulation now?

[Notanon]

What right does a bank have to deny me access to exchanges? Since theres nothing illegal happening in my pov they dont have the rights to ban it in countries in europe or us.
China is different in the way that they are still trying to control the people, btc was a loss in control for them. I dont see that happening to the eu/us anytime soon unless they declare it being something illegal.

It's tricky.

In china the government has more control over banking and they are able to tell the banks what to do.

In the U.S. the government has less ability (and less motivation) to ban cryptos, but the banks may do it anyway to attempt to preserve their dominance within financial systems.

But I think that while these are big issues now, in the long run cryptos will either succeed or fail purely based on their merits. At the end of the day cryptos are built upon the internet and the internet routes around censorship (in all its forms).

A far more sophisticated version of local bitcoin/altcoin  coupled with decentralised exchanges = far less vulnerable - let's get on with it.

Some sort of third-party interface that allows for more fluid transfer between fiat and crypto currencies will be needed at some point to really get things moving, a bit similar to the system banks use to lock in an exchange rate and amount when someone buys something from a different country (i.e. someone from Europe buying from the US via their credit card).

Anyway, hopefully this will help to kill off some of the useless clones going about, either through complete abandonment or by being subsumed through merged mining.

[roozifus]

What right does a bank have to deny me access to exchanges? Since theres nothing illegal happening in my pov they dont have the rights to ban it in countries in europe or us.
China is different in the way that they are still trying to control the people, btc was a loss in control for them. I dont see that happening to the eu/us anytime soon unless they declare it being something illegal.

It's tricky.

In china the government has more control over banking and they are able to tell the banks what to do.

In the U.S. the government has less ability (and less motivation) to ban cryptos, but the banks may do it anyway to attempt to preserve their dominance within financial systems.

But I think that while these are big issues now, in the long run cryptos will either succeed or fail purely based on their merits. At the end of the day cryptos are built upon the internet and the internet routes around censorship (in all its forms).

A far more sophisticated version of local bitcoin/altcoin  coupled with decentralised exchanges = far less vulnerable - let's get on with it.

I do completely agree with your point about decentralization, I probably should have stated that earlier

[PeterL]

Seems it was pretty easy for the banks to kill BTC.

Killed? When I bought in early October, it was $130. It then went up to 1280. It has now crashed to $455 and has gone back up to about $550 now.

If I tell any investor that I got 400% out of an investment in 2 months' time, they'd listen.

From what I see and what I have learned in the past, taking the $30 to $1 drop and $250 to $50 drop and now we see $1200 to $400something drop, It always comes out stronger.

You cannot learn the future by looking at the past.

I say that the value will increase when Wall Street enters the market

Wall Street is already in the market. You can bet that many investment banks and companies that are anywhere near serious have a pile of BTC laying around.

I know that bitcoin is backed by the best of people, the creative thinkers and the market experts. Lets do this, nothing is more fun than a good old challenge!

Hmmm. There's a few creative thinkers in this community, but the ratio is not significantly higher than in any other community. And for the market experts? Hardly. We created the market, but that doesn't mean we're the best in playing the market. Just like companies are frequently surprised by what happens to their stock: they create the market but are not the experts.

Not bashing BTC or altcoins here, I have my own little mining rig. And I also expect coins in general to go up (otherwise I wouldn't be here). But we need a reality check. Other markets (stock, materials, ...) also have their excesses and their swings, but the swings are peanuts compared to what is happening here. There's one good reason for it: there is no underlying value in any coin. If you compare raw materials to companies to futures to *coins, the tendency is to have less connection to underlying value and more volatility on the market. So, we can try and stabilise the whole market by building a closer link to underlying value. This is what coins like CureCoin and AltCoin are trying to achieve. Some may view this as heresy, as it's a move back to meatspace, whereas coins were meant to be cyberspace only. The only other option is to enjoy the ride with an open mind. Remember: what goes up must come down again. So, even if BTC were to hit $2000 at one point, you can be certain it will dive below $1000 again after that and half the forum will claim ragnarok is near. Either we change what we are doing, or we have to live with instability and emotional outcries every so often.

[cryptohunter]

Agree with the majority of what you say, however there can be no argument really that having everything decentralised will remove a lot of the fears and worries surrounding crypto.  This move is not based on emotion only. It is a major player being (even if its temporary) taken out of the game. This would not have happened if everything was decentralised. I do think they will now be trading on the streets but still more hassle = less people interested.



Local bitcoin actually works rather well , however it could all be improved.

Crypto is an amazing thing, nobody can say otherwise, it needs a environment from which is can operate that is as amazing as itself. On it's own it will not thrive as it should.


This was a friendly slap by chinas standards, let's hope we are more decentralised by the time they and perhaps others decide it's time for a substantial thrashing. In 4 years though there has been little to zero innovation with anything other than coin design.

[braytz]

China didn't kill anything, it's the rest of the dumpers who are killing the prices

If everyone who isn't Chinese stopped selling right now, the price would go right back up

this.

[CoinBuzz]

It is better to use BTC in internet environment not in real life (at least for start). It's virtual currency, governments can accept it for virtual world.

If BTC wants to conquer FIAT currency, governments would take it down immediately.

[cryptohunter]

Even if it makes a full recovery this time. That is not the point. Yeah but waves are great for day trading if you get it correct without doubt,

[katoshi]

maybe china killed the market price for coins in the moment, but certainly not cryptocurrencies, nobody will ever be able to do that. there was a gold rush last month, now it's over. might bother the guys who thought they would get rich quick, but to the real cryptoenthusiasts it doesn't matter. besides, next boom will come...

but i agree we need better, safer, trusted, decentralized, user friendly, easy to use tools to mine, trade, exchange, escrow, buy and sell. kind of the ubuntu of cryptos (without the spyware part )

because when one day fiat really crashes, the crypto with most trust, biggest purchasing power and range of goods, best solution for big and small businesses and user friendliest all-in-one-wallet-app will be golden.