Will this cause France to get into Bitcoin - 75% Tax on Rich

[toomsie]

http://money.cnn.com/2013/12/30/news/economy/french-tax-75/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

75% tax on millionaire salary

More incentive to get paid in BTC?

The true tax rate is higher then 75%.  75% is the rate that working class folk pay. The pay council tax, income tax, vat,  inflation tax, and tax that indirectly make goods and services more expensive because of verious business taxes.

[toomsie]

People with enough money and smarts will go elsewhere.  Takes an awfully stupid politician (redundant) to not understand that!

lol.

People who move because of this are the ones with small portable fortunes.  The real rich in France are those that gain huge incomes from companies and property.  The companies can't move because they have a symbiotic relationship with the state (French diplomats often seem to work as salesmen for infrastructure and arms companies) and of course property owners can't move either.

We may disagree with taxing the rich as opposed to raising tax on the lower orders but its not stupid.  

Prehaps most rich in France are state leachers.

[davedx]

http://money.cnn.com/2013/12/30/news/economy/french-tax-75/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

75% tax on millionaire salary

More incentive to get paid in BTC?

The true tax rate is higher then 75%.  75% is the rate that working class folk pay. The pay council tax, income tax, vat,  inflation tax, and tax that indirectly make goods and services more expensive because of verious business taxes.

Back that up with figures please, if you're going to make claims like that Show me how an average working class French citizen pays ~75% in taxes.

[bryant.coleman]

The true tax rate is higher then 75%.  75% is the rate that working class folk pay. The pay council tax, income tax, vat,  inflation tax, and tax that indirectly make goods and services more expensive because of verious business taxes.

France is currently ruled by the Socialist party. There is a methodology adopted by the socialist parties all over the world to retain power. It is like this:

1. Tax to death the 10% hard working people and squeeze as much money as possible.

2. Give this tax money as benefits to the remaining 90%, lazy people.

3. After a few years, most of the hard working people will run away and the economy will collapse.

4. Now blame the economic collapse on Capitalist forces

5. Brainwash the remaining population (by this time will be living in ghettoes and slums), so that no other party will be elected to power other than the socialist party.

This has been successfully conducted in many of the world nations. Let's wait to see whether their experiment in France will be a successful one or not.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Weird the tax isn't an income tax, it is a penalty tax on the companies which pay its employees "too much".  The company pays a 75% tax on the salaries which exceed 1M EUR per year.  So company pays you 1M EUR, company coughs up 750K EUR to the government.   Company cuts your salary to 999,999 EUR company pays no tax (well no extra millionaire taxes).  I have a feeling many companies will simply cut salaries which are near the 1M mark and offer some form of deferred compensation.

How about a deferred compensation consisting of 0.1 BTC along with a link to a unique Bitcoin dice game, of which the link only works for them?

-Each roll, one doubles their bitcoins.
-Every roll is a winner until X rolls is reached.
-On the last roll of which you lose, you still get to keep your initial bet.
-Site/Link crashes, whereupon you can't play any longer and the funds are immediately sent to the gambler's output bitcoin wallet address.

[skivrmt]

It is NOT an income tax.  French citizens will continue to pay whatever (likely insane) income tax exist.  This is a tax or more aptly a penalty paid by the COMPANY which dares to issue such a high salary.  You state it is on the amount over 75% can you point to a cite because nothing in the article indicates that.  Still even if it is only on the amount of the salary over 75% it is not an income tax and not paid by the employee.

It does not matter man, that is not how taxes works. "Companies will pay" is just what French president thinks it will happen, they will just re-engineer their finances so that they don't pay a damn and lower level employees and even the well paid (at a certain level) will pay the amount to be taxed under this new system. Anyway, it is pretty obvious that the 75% is over the amount that excees 1M and not over 1M itself, I am not for it but I recognize that at least it is not constructed in a dumb way, the guy that earns a salary of 999,999.99 EUR cannot pay substantially less taxes than the guy earning 1,000,000 EUR, this is ridiculously dumb and this is not how it works (does not matter if its income tax, taxes over salary paid by companies, or whatever). I am also very curious (seriously) to know if there is any taxation system in the world in any serious country that actually works as you think this one does. Please show me a tax in which the amount of money of N-0.01 pay substantially less taxes than the amount of N+0.01 if you have any example.

As for the "cite" with further explanations, I have found this one:

http://guideimpots.com/calculer-impot/324-contribution-exceptionnelle-fortune.php

"La contribution exceptionnelle taxera la fraction de l’ensemble des revenus d’activité professionnelle des personnes physiques supérieure à 1 000 000 €."

I will be very pleased if you show me any reliable source that shows that it works the way you are saying it does, however.

This could be -exactly- the case in France.  It's already happening in the US with the Obamacare law!   It's on a smaller scale but affects many more people and at a smaller rate.  $250,000 in the number is the US.  Make more than that next year, you're going to be hit with an extra 3.8% tax.  I know it's small.  But if you're around that number (many doctors, dentists, smaller attorneys, etc), they are being changed to earn $249,999 next year and then setting up a deferred compensation plan.  It's not a marginal tax like the income tax tables are.  It happens in the US for a small extra tax, it'll certainly happen in France for such a large tax.  You're going to see a bunch of $999,999 Euro salaries. 

Or simply people leaving.

[johnyj]

Those companies will pay shares as compensation instead, no difference

[Cryptolator]

http://money.cnn.com/2013/12/30/news/economy/french-tax-75/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

75% tax on millionaire salary

More incentive to get paid in BTC?

France politician are retarded, it's unbelievable !
Anybody who is millionaire won't care about moving elsewhere.
They will lose billions every years.

[vadoff]

Holy shit, 75%? At that point it's just worth it to leave the country. No country is worth a 75% tax rate to live in it.

[freet0pian]

Sooo, being a 75% slave is outrageous, but being just 61% is acceptable. Go figure...

https://translate.google.fi/translate?sl=fi&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fsaituri.org%2Fverotus%2Fpaljonko-oikeasti-maksat-veroja%2F&act=url

[bryant.coleman]

France politician are retarded, it's unbelievable !
Anybody who is millionaire won't care about moving elsewhere.
They will lose billions every years.

It is not the French politicians who are retarded. As a matter of fact, the French politicians are one of the most shrewd of their kind.

It is the common people of France who are retarded, for electing these sort of leaders.

[Bugpowder]

California is not too far away from this now.  55.7% marginal rate above $508,000.

39.8% federal + 3.8% ACA + 12.1% state.  Not to mention payroll, Social Security, etc.

[beetcoin]

almost 40% of that goes to federal though. you know, so they can spend the money "defending" our country by invading others.

[DeathAndTaxes]

@ gannicus,

Thanks for the cite. 

I think we might just be talking past each other.

1) I 100% agree no company will pay it thus it simply acts as a defacto cap on wages.

2) I agreed that it might be on the portion over 1M I never refuted your claim just said the articles was unclear and wondered if someone had a clearer example.  With your cite I agree 100% it is a flat 75% tax on the portion over 1M.   Simple solution.  Nobody (or no significant numbers) will get paid over 1M in salary (they will just take more deffered compensation) and the tax revenue will be roughly nothing.  75% of nothing is nothing.

3) It still isn't an income tax.  My point was that this isn't like raising the income tax bracket to 75% this is IN ADDITION to the employees income tax.  So hypothetically if the tax rate in the >1M EUR bracket was >25% (and I have to guess with France it is more like 50%+) that means the tax between both the employee and employer on the portion above 1M EUR is more than 100%.  That is how insane this is.   Merely raising the income tax bracket to 75% would be bad enough this is a scheme which results in more than 100% taxation.  Utterly asinine.  I think I was unclear but that was my point on saying it isn't an income tax.

[DeathAndTaxes]

California is not too far away from this now.  55.7% marginal rate above $508,000.

39.8% federal + 3.8% ACA + 12.1% state.  Not to mention payroll, Social Security, etc.

This 75% penalty tax is above and beyond all existings taxes.   So france isn't raising the income tax to 75% (which would be insane as it is) the employee and employer still pays all his normal taxes (income tax is >45%, social taxes >9%, VAT >19%) PLUS on top of that the employer now pays an additional 75% penalty tax in wages over 1M EUR.  It is >100% total taxation (on the portion above 1M EUR) as insane as that sounds, and no employer is going to pay more in taxes then they pay their employee so they will just cut wages to the 1M "cap" and offer other non salary compensation (stock options, increased benefits, etc).  The irony is that not only will the govt not get the 75% in super taxes they will lose all the taxes on employee incomes that have been cut.

That isn't to say CA isn't insane.  Don't forget CA has a 8.5% sales tax on top of the income tax.  Also don't forget ObamaCare added a 3.8% additional tax on those making >$250K annually starting in 2014. Similar to France (although well ambitious) this isn't raising the tax bracket by 3.8% it is a new separate tax class on top of all the existing taxes.  So yeah CA is pushing 60% to 70% in total taxation easy these days.  It is one reason why other tech hubs like Austin have seen so many CA immigrants.

[TippingPoint]

The root cause is that politicians are very generous with other people's money.  The theft is so common that many people justify it as normal and necessary.

It is not just the 75% that is outrageous.  It is the very idea of a "progressive" tax.

A tax of 10% across the board would automatically take more money from people with a higher income than those with a lower income.  That is what "per cent" means.  But they invented the concept of taking a higher percentage from people with higher income.  And almost no one objected.  And this is where it leads.  

But it is a good thing for Bitcoin.

[beetcoin]

instead of taxing people up the ass hole, they should just start learning how to more efficiently use/allocate their money. the problem is that politicians like to give free money and waste money (so their friends who are businessmen gain large profits).

if politicians weren't politicians, a cap to the tax rate at half of 75% would be more than enough.

[gurcani]

1. Tax to death the 10% hard working people and squeeze as much money as possible.

2. Give this tax money as benefits to the remaining 90%, lazy people.

You could say "gifted", "smart" or some other junk if you want to justify your priviledge to yourself... But "hardworking"? Come on... people don't make millions by working hard. There are a lot of people, working crazy hours and they don't make a living wage. Being rich is all about being at the right place at right time and using that opportunity the right way, its about knowing the right people and knowing the right way of doing business. For short it's about opportunity, judgement and initiative. Has nothing to do with hard working.

I myself, made the most money in my life, when I was being a lazy bugger.

I mean we are at the bitcoin forum after all, and quite possibly you are an early adopter...

Wait... was it an irony?

[beetcoin]

i don't like it when people say that rich people are hardworking so they are rich. that may be the case, but they could be just as lazy as a middle class employee. that's how the economic system works really. if you have the right friends, they can help you get out on top and screw other people over.. with very little effort or "hard work."

and what does hard work mean if what they are doing is shit for the rest of the world? what about those bankers who "work really hard" to make money for themselves, and fuck everyone else over in the process?

[Findus]

Everybody here is saying that a 75% tax is a barrier to entrepreneurship and will make most rich people flee.

Did you know that the federal income tax rate in the US was 91% on income over $200,000 (approx. $2.5 million in today's dollars) between 1946 and 1962?
Did it cause a great exile of brains and innovators?

I'm French, there's a good chance I will make more than 1 million a year in a few years, but I still welcome this 75% tax. Millionaires build their fortune on the shoulder of many people who implement their ideas, and thanks to a functioning government and a safe environment, which is payed for by taxes.
Also it's not as bad as it seems. If you earn $1'000'001, only the $1 dollar above 1 million is taxed at 75%. Plus, it is in fact a 50% tax which when social security charges are added reaches 75%