[Mods: NUKE 120 act] Commercial Spambots post and delete 1000s of posts per day

[LoyceV]

I'll add nuke-requests to new posts in this thread, 140 accounts are waiting to be nuked!


Earlier today I posted about paid Bump Bots in another thread:

I read this today:

We have two promotion plans:
1) Your thread (ANN/Bounty/other) will be always at the top 24 hours a day.
Your project will be attract more attention from investors and bounty hunters.
This plan will not increase the number of post in your thread, but your thread will be always at the top.

We will also increase the views of your thread:
- minimum 50 000 reads per week
- minimum 200 000 reads per month

The largest plan - your thread will be all time on 1st place
Price for 1 thread:
- 0.3 ETH (0.025 BTC) per day
- 1.5 ETH (0.13 BTC) per week
- 5 ETH (0.42 BTC) per month

Simple plan - your thread will be all time at the top (on 1-8 places)
Price for 1 thread:
- 0.15 ETH (0.012 BTC) per day
- 0.75 ETH (0.06 BTC)per week
- 2 ETH (0.16 BTC) per month

2) Increasing the number of posts in thread.
The price for one page (one page has 20 posts) is 0.05 ETH (0.004 BTC)
In just 1 ETH (0.08 BTC) you will receive 20 pages (400 quality posts).

This is a whole new level of spamming

To see this in action:
Go to Tokens (Altcoins), click one of the top-threads, go to the last post on the last page, and reload the page a few times.
Random Newbie accounts posts some generic BS, delete it so they don't get banned, then do it again.

I can think of several solutions:
1. Ignore Newbies when sorting on "Last post" date. This way, Newbies can't bump threads anymore. Update, as discussed here, it's probably better to exclude Jr. Members too.
2. Nuke all Newbies who have deleted more than x (say x=2, make it x=5 if they  have more than 14 posts) of their own posts.
3. Take away the possibilities for Newbies to delete their posts.
4. Require a captcha for Newbies for either posting and/or deleting a post.
5. Create "deletelog.php", similar to https://bitcointalk.org/modlog.php but for all posts deleted by Newbies (this would be a first step to hunt them down, not a solution to the problem).

I would love to post a long list of Newbie accounts involved, but it's too much work to hunt them down manually. I think this requires some Admin magic to end it.

The result in screenshots (the first post is the same in all screenshots, the last post changes all the time):

[Welsh]

Also, noticed this. I remember this was happening in the marketplace too. Perhaps another solution would be to increase the cool down for a newbie to delete a post. Something which is separate to the cool down to post. Would give time to identify if they are abusing the deletion button without hindering them completely.

I can think of several solutions:
-Ignore Newbies when sorting on "Last post" date. This way, Newbies can't bump threads anymore.

Good idea, and doesn't hurt the users posting directly. Without disallowing newbies completely.

-Nuke all Newbies who have deleted more than x (say x=2, make it x=5 if they  have more than 14 posts) of their own posts

Probably unnecessary.

-Take away the possibilities for Newbies to delete their posts

Would hinder legitmate usage of deleting posts.

-Require a captcha for Newbies for either posting and/or deleting a post

Could work. Would probably be a pain in the arse for legitimate users.

[Jet Cash]

How about this. If a thread has x number of deleted posts, then change the post sequence to latest first.

[TheBeardedBaby]

Yes this is happening for a very long time. I have monitored some newbie accounts. Activity keep changing and it's never the same as the post counts.
They are always registered from two weeks to a month ago even if they are brand new.

This will be a good solution to have a longer cool down but I guess they gonna use more bots with longer post intervals.

[actmyname]

How about this. If a thread has x number of deleted posts, then change the post sequence to latest first.

I think you would rather want to punish the individual as opposed to the thread itself. The reason being, this could be abused when involving project/website competition, leading to people trying to spam post/delete on threads to shut them down.

IMO, the first option (preventing newbies from bumping the thread) would be best. It should still mark it as unread (similar to when someone edits a post in a thread but it's not bumped) so that discussions can be had.

[Tyrantt]

-Require a captcha for Newbies for either posting and/or deleting a post

Could work. Would probably be a pain in the arse for legitimate users.

Maybe but they have to wait a few minutes to post and typing captcha every few minutes shouldn't be that hard. At least that "check the box" captcha. Also, they'd quite quickly move on to the higher rank that would not require captcha, so this one can work quite well.

[pugman]

Or just limit newbies to all but alternative cryptocurrencies section. If suppose they want to post there, buy a copper membership. There is one disadvantage to this, copper membership is relatively cheaper than what the people doing this are making. They would spend the money on this, so probably increase the membership fee or something like that.

[LoyceV]

Maybe but they have to wait a few minutes to post and typing captcha every few minutes shouldn't be that hard. At least that "check the box" captcha. Also, they'd quite quickly move on to the higher rank that would not require captcha, so this one can work quite well.

If the captcha is only shown to delete posts, most Newbies will never even see it. Even the spammers won't be bothered by it, but it can end this paid bumping.

I'll try to scrape a list of involved accounts to be nuked.

[eddie13]

Why don't you check out who is paying "them" to do the bumping?
If "they" aren't one in the same person(s) you'd expect to be paying for the bumps in the first place.. 

[LoyceV]

Why don't you check out who is paying "them" to do the bumping?

That's not something they discuss out in the open, and thus impossible for me to find.

[hilariousetc]

Why don't you check out who is paying "them" to do the bumping?
If "they" aren't one in the same person(s) you'd expect to be paying for the bumps in the first place..  

How? It would probably only be possible if we set up some honeypots to catch them in the act but no doubt a lot of these services require payment first as well. I've asked a couple of ICOs who've been caught using them who or what companies they are using and they either never respond or give vague answers. One just gave me a link to a person's linkedin where he claimed he was contacted about their bumping services so not really that helpful.  

Or just limit newbies to all but alternative cryptocurrencies section. If suppose they want to post there, buy a copper membership. There is one disadvantage to this, copper membership is relatively cheaper than what the people doing this are making. They would spend the money on this, so probably increase the membership fee or something like that.

I've suggested disallowing lower ranks unless they purchase a copper membership. Not sure theymos wants to be this restrictive though.

[LoyceV]

Test
I've downloaded the last page of [ANN][DEX-ICO] 🔥🔥CrypTollBooth - New Wallet with Exchange Connected [ICO!] 🔥🔥💰💰 302 times, with x seconds interval (x: I'm not going to post my timing information for spammers to read).

The following list shows how many of the downloaded pages contain posts from that account. The first 4 are real posts that haven't been deleted (they are in all downloaded pages), the 36 accounts after that are bumpbots (they post and delete their spam). There is a very small chance on of them was a user who really posted something and deleted it again, but that's very unlikely.

Mods: am I trusted enough for you to nuke those accounts if I provide lists like this, without further evidence? If so, I'll process other threads too.
I'm curious to see how quickly the next batch of bots starts spamming after these are nuked.
If bumpbots can be nuked fast enough, the spammers' business model becomes worthless. That leaves them spamming without deleting posts though, but that's something for another topic.

   -3.     302                                                         kalehon
    -2.     302                                                         uripit
    -1.     302                                                         thinkme1st
     0.     302                                                         kunis0727
     1.      67                                                         RadiantSanta banned!
     2.      41                                                         zargasadoralanim banned!
     3.      15                                                         bornprime banned!
     4.      15                                                         nozyfeature banned!
     5.      15                                                         cutieldexam banned!
     6.      14                                                         digynynerg banned!
     7.      13                                                         Shapedebo banned!
     8.      13                                                         Triateeye banned!
     9.      13                                                         lastinger banned!
    10.      13                                                         Landganm banned!
    11.      13                                                         gamestard banned!
    12.      13                                                         sexyboot banned!
    13.      13                                                         Hydraterg banned!
    14.      13                                                         2hotneilcookie banned!
    15.      13                                                         realistion banned!
    16.      13                                                         manathadorasida banned!
    17.      13                                                         maveradcordalak banned!
    18.      12                                                         InformationChirp banned!
    19.      12                                                         inovisitu banned!
    20.      12                                                         backedia banned!
    21.      12                                                         burenicti banned!
    22.      12                                                         shardbauer banned!
    23.      12                                                         readystania banned!
    24.      11                                                         tmanaperer not banned (yet?)
    25.      11                                                         Tactacio not banned (yet?)
    26.      11                                                         rosexglossy banned!
    27.      11                                                         mundeplot banned!
    28.      11                                                         Nearlyneco banned!
    29.      11                                                         Grundycomm banned!
    30.      10                                                         soccerree banned!
    31.      10                                                         demonjame banned!
    32.      10                                                         datagest banned!
    33.      10                                                         sicleaged banned!
    34.      10                                                         ballitingle banned!
    35.       9                                                         nanotlist banned!
   36.       2                                                         Demirung
Ignore the last one:
The last one looks like a forum bug: in about 1% of my downloads, the last post on page 5 (post #100) ends up as the first post on page 6 (post #101).

[botany]

I can think of several solutions:
1. Ignore Newbies when sorting on "Last post" date. This way, Newbies can't bump threads anymore.
2. Nuke all Newbies who have deleted more than x (say x=2, make it x=5 if they  have more than 14 posts) of their own posts.
3. Take away the possibilities for Newbies to delete their posts.
4. Require a captcha for Newbies for either posting and/or deleting a post.
5. Create "deletelog.php", similar to https://bitcointalk.org/modlog.php but for all posts deleted by Newbies (this would be a first step to hunt them down, not a solution to the problem).

The deletelog.php does look like an interesting idea. While those accounts which have been detected are newbies, it won't take long for the person behind these accounts to farm them up to junior member rank. If at all any restrictions are imposed, they should cover junior members as well.

[MagicSmoker]

...

To see this in action:
Go to Tokens (Altcoins), click one of the top-threads, go to the last post on the last page, and reload the page a few times.
Random Newbie accounts posts some generic BS, delete it so they don't get banned, then do it again.

I can think of several solutions:
1. Ignore Newbies when sorting on "Last post" date. This way, Newbies can't bump threads anymore.
2. Nuke all Newbies who have deleted more than x (say x=2, make it x=5 if they  have more than 14 posts) of their own posts.
3. Take away the possibilities for Newbies to delete their posts.
4. Require a captcha for Newbies for either posting and/or deleting a post.
5. Create "deletelog.php", similar to https://bitcointalk.org/modlog.php but for all posts deleted by Newbies (this would be a first step to hunt them down, not a solution to the problem).
...

So the bumping service posts to a thread then deletes the post over and over again to keep a thread on top? That is both ingenious and downright evil. While I am relatively new on bct, I have been using forums since they were called BBSes and I feel that #2, 3 & 4 would be effective without requiring much work on the part of admins/mods. Suggestion #5 would be interesting for statistical purposes but for enforcement would require active searching by mods/admins, so less desirable.

At any rate, I like that you identified a new form of spamming AND came up with potential solutions, so I gave you a merit even though it was analogous to spitting over the railing at Niagara Falls. 

[LoyceV]

2. Nuke all Newbies who have deleted more than x (say x=2, make it x=5 if they  have more than 14 posts) of their own posts.

So the bumping service posts to a thread then deletes the post over and over again to keep a thread on top? That is both ingenious and downright evil. While I am relatively new on bct, I have been using forums since they were called BBSes and I feel that #2, 3 & 4 would be effective without requiring much work on the part of admins/mods.

Judging by my data collection, "x" for #2 could be much higher too. I estimate at least 10 posts per hour per account, that makes hundreds of deleted posts per day per account.

At any rate, I like that you identified a new form of spamming

Credits for the discovery aren't mine, but thanks

[MagicSmoker]

...
Judging by my data collection, "x" for #2 could be much higher too. I estimate at least 10 posts per hour per account, that makes hundreds of deleted posts per day per account.
...

Even deleting 1 post per day seems like abnormal behavior, so auto-nuking any newbie and, perhaps, Jr. Member, that deletes more than 2 posts in 24 hours should stop this scheme with near-zero impact on everyone else.

This rule probably shouldn't be applied to higher ranks, though, as there are legitimate reasons why someone might want to delete many of their posts all at once (e.g. - participating in a thread that turns nasty).

[LoyceV]

This rule probably shouldn't be applied to higher ranks, though, as there are legitimate reasons why someone might want to delete many of their posts all at once (e.g. - participating in a thread that turns nasty).

Don't forget the legit bumps, that can only happen once every 24 hours, and requires deletion of the old bump. I have a few threads that I bump once in a while.

Meanwhile, working on the next thread Each thread (after testing 4 of them) uses 35 Newbie accounts for bumpspam. That makes it quite obvious the same person is behind all of it.

[stompix]

I can think of several solutions:
1. Ignore Newbies when sorting on "Last post" date. This way, Newbies can't bump threads anymore.

Jr Members should be added to this also, as the requirement is only activity, they will just create a thousand more accounts, post garbage to level up and add more accounts to their army of bumpers.
I know it might sounds harsh,but it does not affect the user at all, they still get to share their "opinion"  

2. Nuke all Newbies who have deleted more than x (say x=2, make it x=5 if they  have more than 14 posts) of their own posts.
3. Take away the possibilities for Newbies to delete their posts.

I think this should be enforced for everybody on this forum.
Lots of hacked accounts are deleting their history, shills are deleting proofs after the scam ICO has finished and many more....
I'm active on another forum where you can't edit your posts after 1 hour nor can you delete them, and it's pretty funny  especially in the politics section to look at the users history and then rub it in their face   .

4. Require a captcha for Newbies for either posting and/or deleting a post.

I would love a captcha that would make them read the rules on the forum, like typing the second word, the last character or the first of a random rule around here.  

But...whatever it is, something must be done!

[Welsh]

I've been thinking that something like a shadow ban could be useful in these situations , and a few others. It seems most of these bots are using the same phrases without even changing a character. They've been doing this for a few days now. I'm sure mitchell could hook up his bot to automatically flag these phrases or report them automatically so there's a little bit of human interpretation to avoid any issues. Then if they feel the account is guilty of posting, and then deleting it's responses in hopes of bumping the topic it could get shadow banned.

Meaning they would see it as if they were posting their message, and deleting it. But, in reality no one else sees it. They are obviously running automated systems so probably wouldn't even realize. Even, if they did it would only take a little manual observation to determine their new sets of phrases, and add them to Mitchells bot.

I've noticed the example above posted by the exact same person for a few days now. "lastlinger". In fact just posted once again. I think this confirms that there aren't to many newly registered accounts doing this, and they are simply reusing their current accounts. Banning these members would likely result in them registering a new account, and starting over. Although, shadow banning could make it more difficult for them to tell.

I think this should be enforced for everybody on this forum.
Lots of hacked accounts are deleting their history, shills are deleting proofs after the scam ICO has finished and many more....
I'm active on another forum where you can't edit your posts after 1 hour nor can you delete them, and it's pretty funny  especially in the politics section to look at the users history and then rub it in their face    .

This wouldn't really help the situation that the OP is about though. As they aren't waiting for a hour to pass, and are simply just deleting them after a few seconds have passed.

[eddie13]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1389668.0


This bot is designed to post bumps, with a time interval (24 hour rules), and it even deletes it's last bump..

I read about this bot a long time ago, at the time it seemed to me to abide by forum rules for bumping and was a pretty cool idea.


So all your code of this is probably there in this bot, just change it a little bit to delete differently and post at a different interval, scale it up a bit, and you have what we see here with this new bumping scheme..

Here are a couple more search results..
https://github.com/achow101/BctalkBumpBot
https://github.com/buxlover/autobump


Nuking all the bump bot accounts may result in collecting a lot more evil fees..


I think you will have to take away the abilities of new accounts to make so many deletes to really stop it, until they find their next loophole..

Once again I'll say I'd like to find a way to make the companies themselves take the heat for it but their may not be a realistic way..