Bitcoin network is rejecting Bitcoin microtransactions

[pontiacg5]

Well, the miners do have the BTC reward right now which is rather substantial, so I do think agree that fees should be rather low right now. What about raising fees as time goes by because the reward is being lowered?

As adoption increases, transaction volume should increase. As the block reward is halved, it is anticipated that fees transacted will increase to compensate.

The fees now are not prohibitively expensive, and keep people from spamming the blockchain unless they have a lot of bitcoins. People with a lot of bitcoins probably aren't going to spam the chain like a bunch of clueless shatoshi dice newbies who have no idea what they are doing and how it affects bitcoin.

[darius2020]

As the block reward is halved, it is anticipated that fees transacted will increase to compensate.

Are you serious ?
If transaction fee increases by 10 per cent on every block reward halved
so according to your suggestion, transaction fee is to eat up any sum transferred in a future.

The fees now are not prohibitively expensive, and keep people from spamming the blockchain unless they have a lot of bitcoins

.


I am sorry but many people don't have a lot of bitcoins today and not every man is a millionaire today
( 1,000 bitcoins made $ 1,000,000 only 2 months ago)

 

People with a lot of bitcoins probably aren't going to spam the chain

Any transaction is just a valid Bitcoin transfer transaction.

like a bunch of clueless shatoshi dice newbies who have no idea what they are doing and how it affects bitcoin.

Do you suggest Mr. Satoshi developed his Bitcoin idea for the rich only ?

According to your opinion, his great idea of no middle-man bank has been turned upside down into
Bitcoin bank for the rich.

World of made of 7Bs poor and  just few Ms rich.

Bitcoin bank was developed for the poor since the rich don't need virtual bank or virtual currency since they are satisfied with present banking standards and can afford bank fees.

Bitcoin was exactly developed to let parties save on transactions tools.

Ever increased transaction fees can disrupt any great idea like the one by Mr. Satoshi.

[pontiacg5]

I'm just going to walk away now, because stupid like that just can't be reasoned with.

[geniusboy91]

No it isn't. The dust limit of BTC0.0000543 is about 5 cents. The transaction fee to send that is BTC0.0001, or about 10 cents. I guarantee that there are no poor villagers trying to pay amounts lower than 5 cents over the Internet, and getting upset that they have to pay 10 cents to do so.

I understand the need and purpose of fees, and for most transactions, the fees are insignificant as advertised, but I disagree with you when it comes to something like TipperCoin for Twitter. They charge a mandatory BTC.0001 miners fee for each tip you leave. I see $0.05 as a reasonable amount someone would want to leave just for making you laugh or answering a question but the fee is 160% of the actual amount to send. And I think this is where Bitcoin could really shine. This is something where if it takes a day to show up, I don't think it really matters, and even if it isn't feeless, I think that an .000001 fee would be sufficient just to get it above all the feeless transactions.

[pontiacg5]

No it isn't. The dust limit of BTC0.0000543 is about 5 cents. The transaction fee to send that is BTC0.0001, or about 10 cents. I guarantee that there are no poor villagers trying to pay amounts lower than 5 cents over the Internet, and getting upset that they have to pay 10 cents to do so.

I understand the need and purpose of fees, and for most transactions, the fees are insignificant as advertised, but I disagree with you when it comes to something like TipperCoin for Twitter. They charge a mandatory BTC.0001 miners fee for each tip you leave. I see $0.05 as a reasonable amount someone would want to leave just for making you laugh or answering a question but the fee is 160% of the actual amount to send. And I think this is where Bitcoin could really shine. This is something where if it takes a day to show up, I don't think it really matters, and even if it isn't feeless, I think that an .000001 fee would be sufficient just to get it above all the feeless transactions.

I would personally want to hit you upside the head with a stick for sending me $.05 in bitcoin, it makes it hard to spend as you said and I really don't care about a nickel. If I made you laugh, just laugh.

There is no reason that transactions like that have to be broadcast on the network, though. They could all be handled in an internal database, then paid out in lump sums.

[BlockChainLottery]

As the block reward is halved, it is anticipated that fees transacted will increase to compensate.

Are you serious ?
If transaction fee increases by 10 per cent on every block reward halved
so according to your suggestion, transaction fee is to eat up any sum transferred in a future.

No, not if Bitcoin becomes very popular. In the new client they are trying to develop a more organic way to determine the fee at a given moment to get a transaction through. Then it could even be lower than it is now.

The fees now are not prohibitively expensive, and keep people from spamming the blockchain unless they have a lot of bitcoins

.


I am sorry but many people don't have a lot of bitcoins today and not every man is a millionaire today
( 1,000 bitcoins made $ 1,000,000 only 2 months ago)

What in your opinion is a dust payment in dollars? 1 dollar? 1 cent? 0.01 cent?

 

People with a lot of bitcoins probably aren't going to spam the chain

Any transaction is just a valid Bitcoin transfer transaction.

Can't argue with that, but miners decide. Do you think it should be handled different, then how?

like a bunch of clueless shatoshi dice newbies who have no idea what they are doing and how it affects bitcoin.

Do you suggest Mr. Satoshi developed his Bitcoin idea for the rich only ?

Again, in dollars, what is poor and what is rich?

According to your opinion, his great idea of no middle-man bank has been turned upside down into
Bitcoin bank for the rich.

World of made of 7Bs poor and  just few Ms rich.

Bitcoin bank was developed for the poor since the rich don't need virtual bank or virtual currency since they are satisfied with present banking standards and can afford bank fees.

Bitcoin was exactly developed to let parties save on transactions tools.

Ever increased transaction fees can disrupt any great idea like the one by Mr. Satoshi.

I think Bitcoin was not designed specially for the rich or the poor. It was designed to get rid of banks. In that way it saves in costs, most of the time people have to pay just for having an account. Also, it makes paying via the internet very easy because it is part of it.

[darius2020]

It looks like
Bitcoin idea by Satoshi has no future
since transactions can be easily disrupted by miners on strike, requesting more and more money
in transaction fees.

Let me know what is a chance to have Google to join Bitcoin as No.1 Miner
to process every dust, micro, nano Bitcoin transactions as intended by Satoshi.

Real bank money transfer, payment transactions are almost free
so if you are not a miner, there is no sense to buy Bitcoin, risk Bitcoin processing, storing, transaction
verification to buy goods since withy real money transactions are processed on-line at zero-award, fee-free if you have account with one of key banks.

Scott Li is exactly testing microtransactions in Bitcoin ( micro nano transactions) for us .
Name of his service is #TipperCoin on Twitter.

If Scott fails to succeed so the only chance for Bitcoin to survive is price of Bitcoin to rise on speculation by investment funds.

Overnight risk for traders to accept payments in Bitcoin is too high.

Two of my friends founded private banks 20 years ago
and any risk in banking system must be contained.

Since risk in price fluctuactions of Bitcoin v. Dollar cannot be contained
the only risk free business transacted is the business by Bitcoin miners, minting 25 Bitcoins
for sale.

Market is flooded with thousands of Th/s miners today
so it's now a time for major players like Google, IBM to join
Bitcoin mining markets with Ph/s miners,
reducing number of individual miners to Zero.

Miners are insiders within Bitcoin network.
Non-Miners are outsiders within Bitcoin network.

Outsiders are controlled by insiders (a small group of miners setting their own rules to make as much Bitcoins as possible).

So the only way for Bitcoin Network to survive is to accept zero-fee, no-award transactions (microBitcoin, nanoBitcoin,  BitcoinTips since otherwise Bitcoin democracy is controlled by supremacy of few miners at no risk of Bitcoin vs. Dollar fluctuactions in exchange rate.

[DannyHamilton]

Bitcoin idea by Satoshi has no future
since transactions can be easily disrupted by miners on strike, requesting more and more money
in transaction fees.

process every dust, micro, nano Bitcoin transactions as intended by Satoshi.

Satoshi whitepaper (please read it!):
http://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

the incentive can transition entirely to transaction fees

Stop trying to back up your argument with the Satoshi name since you clearly have no idea what Satoshi intended.

So the only way for Bitcoin Network to survive is to accept zero-fee, no-award transactions (microBitcoin, nanoBitcoin,  BitcoinTips since otherwise Bitcoin democracy is controlled by supremacy of few miners at no risk of Bitcoin vs. Dollar fluctuactions in exchange rate.

Go ahead!  Nobody is stopping you.  You can create a mining pool that only confirms transactions that are free (no transaction fee).  Everybody who agrees with you can join your pool.  There is no reason that free transactions can't be confirmed if enough people believe as you do.

[BlockChainLottery]

So the only way for Bitcoin Network to survive is to accept zero-fee, no-award transactions (microBitcoin, nanoBitcoin,  BitcoinTips since otherwise Bitcoin democracy is controlled by supremacy of few miners at no risk of Bitcoin vs. Dollar fluctuactions in exchange rate.

No service is really free. I know miners are rewarded by the block reward of 25BTC, but that's just to kick start this endeavour. In my opinion the whole fee system is working just fine, preventing the network from flooding and securing the future of Bitcoin by making sure people still want to mine.
There is no way you should connect mining to the exchange rate. For example banks can also not be held accounted for the exchange rate of say dollar/euro. That is complete nonsense.

[dadomado]

I think this is important to add in terms of issues that has been raised
Transaction fees serve 2 purposes in the Bitcoin network. It rewards the miners for confirming transactions and also sets a priority on the inclusion of your transaction in the next block. ie, if you pay a higher transaction fee, chances are greater you will be included in the next block so that it can be verified and confirmed. For faster confirmations, spend more on the transaction fee.

[darius2020]

you said:

Transaction fees serve 2 purposes in the Bitcoin network. It rewards the miners for confirming transactions and also sets a priority on the inclusion of your transaction in the next block. ie, if you pay a higher transaction fee, chances are greater you will be included in the next block so that it can be verified and confirmed. For faster confirmations, spend more on the transaction fee.

Miners or (minters = money minting) are rewarded by default ( 25 BTC today)
so there is no need to set any priority on the inclusion of one's transaction into the next block.

Acting otherwise, miners or "minters" can demand higher and higher transaction fees to be offered
to have transaction hashed within a block, making Bitcoin payments to collapse
transaction fees to double and double on every strike by miners ( minters)
forcing those accepting Bitcoin payments to establish Bitcoin block hashing agency to
keep business sound.

chances are greater you will be included in the next block so that it can be verified and confirmed. For faster confirmations, spend more on the transaction fee.

How much in transaction fee makes you to include a specific transaction into the new block ?

And "faster confirmation" stays for what ?

5 min, 1 hour, 1 day , 1 month ?

It looks like
Bitcoin can collapse on transaction fee doubled from time to time
Bitcoin can collapse on no-fee transaction to be delayed or even never included into the new hashed block

So Bitcoin network turns into Easy Entry - Hard Exit  Game

You can accept Bitcoin payments buy to have pay a large transaction fee to exit Bitcoin game.

First Class traditional banks offer clients no-fee transaction today
so the only business in accepting Bitcoin is deflanatory feature built-it into generation of Bitcoins.

If you can delay Bitcoin payment transaction so you can easily violate the trust in 1 BTC at $900
transactions, since why should we risk buying Bitcoins, accepting Bitcoins as payments
if you can stop us with spending Bitcoins, doubling transaction fee from time to time,
making small Bitcoin payments expensive, since transaction fee can make 50% or more of the sum transferred.

So my advise to miners ( minters) is to keep transaction fee as low-as-possible,
accept no-fee transactions, don't delay zero-fee transactions
and play fair, since otherwise interest in Bitcoin can easily dimnish.

[BlockChainLottery]

Miners or (minters = money minting) are rewarded by default ( 25 BTC today)
so there is no need to set any priority on the inclusion of one's transaction into the next block.

Imagine what would happen without any fees whatsoever. Everybody could make as much transactions as they like with as small amounts as they like. That could possibly result in maybe 10, or 100, or 1000, or even higher transactions per second. I think the network, full clients, and storage capacity wouldn't be anywhere near capable of tackling that situation. Hence resulting in the end of Bitcoin.

And yet with fees, it doesn't.

First Class traditional banks offer clients no-fee transaction today so the only business in accepting Bitcoin is deflanatory feature built-it into generation of Bitcoins.

Think hard, then I'm sure you can think of other advantages.

[Sonny]

Miners or (minters = money minting) are rewarded by default ( 25 BTC today)
so there is no need to set any priority on the inclusion of one's transaction into the next block.

Imagine what would happen without any fees whatsoever. Everybody could make as much transactions as they like with as small amounts as they like. That could possibly result in maybe 10, or 100, or 1000, or even higher transactions per second. I think the network, full clients, and storage capacity wouldn't be anywhere near capable of tackling that situation. Hence resulting in the end of Bitcoin.

And yet with fees, it doesn't.

+1

People can keep sending their bitcoin back and forth with no cost, and the whole network will be clogged.
Those "real" transactions can hardly be included in a block then...

[darius2020]

Everybody could make as much transactions as they like with as small amounts as they like.

Exactly the idea staying behind Bitcoin -
No limits on electronic payment transactions.

People can keep sending their bitcoin back and forth with no cost, and the whole network will be clogged.
Those "real" transactions can hardly be included in a block then...

Smart people don't have any need to send their bitcoin back and forth.

To your surprise, most real banks offers no-fee money transfers within the same bank,
so large banks make this offer available to multi-Ms of  clients for free,
exactly as mobile telephony networks offer free calls within the network,
not making people to sit 24h/365 to talk and talk forever.

Nothing new under the Sun.

If your intention is to find the way to limit number of Bitcoin transactions,
so doubling the transaction fee every year you can easily freeze Bitcoin network.

Smart real bank systems can handle Bs of transactions
so please don't suggest Bitcoin network has no prospects to grow.

[Sonny]

To your surprise, most real banks offers no-fee money transfers within the same bank,
so large banks make this offer available to multi-Ms of  clients for free,
exactly as mobile telephony networks offer free calls within the network,
not making people to sit 24h/365 to talk and talk forever.

To your surprise, you can send no-fee instant micro off-chain tx in various sites such as coinbase.

If you really need to send out microtransactions frequently, get yourself a coinbase account, and ask all your recipients to give you their deposit addresses on coinbase.