[HAVELOCK] Mintspare (MS) Bitcoin Electronic Trade-in Service - Official Thread

[NanoAkron]

Look, I'm glad you've decided to stop the 'marketing speak' and talk to us all honestly. And hearing that you've actually invested your own funds in this venture, and hearing about your personal pain, is refreshing and reassuring.

Unfortunately, it still doesn't justify your business plan. What you need to do is get an MBA or VC involved, get them to revise your plan with you and resubmit your new prospectus to Havelock.

Something along the lines of 80% public ownership would be a start, given how large a risk this business is and how much you're intending to raise at angel stage.

You guys have a chance - don't blow it by being selfish. Owning 1% of Apple is better than owning 100% of Tandy (a computer brand which went bust before you were probably born).

[zevtiefenbach]

Whether the terms of the IPO prospectus are favorable or not is your rightful opinion. I will always place investors’ interests before mine - I want to reward those who believed and contributed to Mintspare. Let me be clear: these words mean nothing without actions to back them up. As a matter of fact, all these paragraphs are worthless without any actions to back them up. Actions speak louder than words. I could type on this thread around the clock but at the end of the day, that’s not what moves Mintspare forward.

well galfry. it's hard to believe that you will place investor's interests before yours. it's an impracticable assumption. the kind of thing that a politician may say which no one would ever believe. the best an investor could hope for is to have their interests aligned with yours.

unfortunately, the way you've structured the IPO, this is not the case. since you are withholding 80% of the stock from the marketplace, investors will always run the risk of you dumping more shares into the market undermining the share value.

let me explain:

your interest is to build the share value so that you can sell the 80% you hold at a greater price.

naturally investors will also want an appreciating share value.  - so far so good.

however, if the share value begins to sink and you start to realize that you want to get some of your capital out of the project (to recoup the 40 btc that you've loaned the business for example). you'll have an ability to release a new swath of shares at a price that invariably will be below market value (invariably because if it were above market value new investors would just buy from the market instead of you). at that point you effectively freeze out retail investors from being able to sell. this scenario is not "if" scenario, it's a "when" scenario.

so when you say that "actions speak louder than words" i simply reflect on the terms of the prospectus (your action) and acknowledge that the placating you do on this board "your words" are pretty meaningless.

if you want to have credibility your action (taking money from an investment community) should not be so blindingly one-sided.

it's clear that you have developed an investment platform that is overwhelmingly favourable to you and gives your investors only nominal upside despite assuming 100% of the capital risk. So, to date, regardless of how well you sleep, your actions do speak volumes.

no matter how well your business does (and i doubt all of the projections that you have made), an investor in this equity is highly unlikely to profit in any meaningful way. and far more likely, they will end up losing most (or all!) of their investment.

[zevtiefenbach]

...
I for one believe that intentions are important. I do not think it is wrong to question a business plan, but I believe that it should be tactfully done. I think the valuation is high at this point, but I do not believe this is an outright scam as you suggest in your other posts.

As a possible future investor in this venture, I wish Mintspare the best for their start on Monday Feb 3.  

There is no clear line between scamming and laziness/ignorance/incompetence.
If I promise to build you a spaceship, charge you a few hundred grand ('coz that's how much I think I could get you for, tops), and use the proceeds to rent an office, a company car, and hire my GF as CFO and...
Have I scammed you, or

Any scammer worth his salt will structure the scam to be indistinguishable from a failed business.  That's what makes scamming so attractive - no consequences when it all turns to shit.

and in my post, i assumed that you were trying to run a legitimate business despite the fact that the way the IPO is structured, your greatest opportunity to profit is to fail the business (sometime) after you've received your IPO funds.

this is why, it's far more credible to invest in an existing company as opposed to a start-up and why when you are investing in a start-up you would receive way (WAY, WAY) better terms than what you've offered to investors here.

like the investors who are assuming 100% of the risk should receive like 80% of the company - not the inverse. incidentally,  this would start to align your interests with the investors interests because you would have a virtually unlimited pool of shares to flood the market with any time you want to raise some cash for yourself. you would be far more inclined to see your 20% holding as a long term investment.

[MintSpare]

Dear current & future Mintspare Fund holders,

It’s been a wild ride for me since I came up with the idea for Mintspare, “The World’s First bitcoin Trade-In Service”.  I have been personally involved in the Bitcoin world since May 2013 when I bought my first bitcoins on Coinbase and dabbled into the mining scene with GPU’s for a little while. I immediately became consumed and obsessed over the next several months with the implications of learning about the potentials of the protocol and the currency.  One day in September, I was trying to sell my old iPhone for bitcoins and became frustrated with finding a reputable, fast and simple service that would buy used electronics in exchange for bitcoins. That’s when the idea for Mintspare was born. Since then, I have made it my mission to provide this service.

Today I am proud to present to every holder of the Mintspare Fund a private beta test invitation to surf the site, test the features, sell up to 2 items and provide any feedback; compliments, criticisms, bug findings, security flaws, etc (details on our bug bounty program will soon be released). A beta invite will be sent to your Havelock associated e-mail account at 2PM EST. Further, all fund unit holders will receive a 10% bonus per account for this private beta test to be put toward the items you sell. This 10% bonus will be subsidized from my personal bitcoins holding and not from Mintspare’s funds.  If you have friends or family that want to surf the site or sell items or just try the beta, I’m going to reserve additional beta test invitations for the first 100 people who e-mail me at galfry@mintspare.com.

I understand that the site will not be 100% perfect which is why I am asking for your help to get Mintspare ready for the official launch in March. I appreciate all the support from friends, family, the Havelock team, the talented engineers and new team members as well as everyone else that showed their support and criticisms along the way. My hope is that Mintspare will eventually become one of the quickest and easiest ways for people around the world to get direct access to Bitcoin in exchange for their used electronics.

Thank you,
Galfry Puechavy
Founder & CEO of Mintspare

[NanoAkron]

Dear current & future Mintspare Fund holders,

It’s been a wild ride for me since I came up with the idea for Mintspare, “The World’s First bitcoin Trade-In Service”.  I have been personally involved in the Bitcoin world since May 2013 when I bought my first bitcoins on Coinbase and dabbled into the mining scene with GPU’s for a little while. I immediately became consumed and obsessed over the next several months with the implications of learning about the potentials of the protocol and the currency.  One day in September, I was trying to sell my old iPhone for bitcoins and became frustrated with finding a reputable, fast and simple service that would buy used electronics in exchange for bitcoins. That’s when the idea for Mintspare was born. Since then, I have made it my mission to provide this service.

Today I am proud to present to every holder of the Mintspare Fund a private beta test invitation to surf the site, test the features, sell up to 2 items and provide any feedback; compliments, criticisms, bug findings, security flaws, etc (details on our bug bounty program will soon be released). A beta invite will be sent to your Havelock associated e-mail account at 2PM EST. Further, all fund unit holders will receive a 10% bonus per account for this private beta test to be put toward the items you sell. This 10% bonus will be subsidized from my personal bitcoins holding and not from Mintspare’s funds.  If you have friends or family that want to surf the site or sell items or just try the beta, I’m going to reserve additional beta test invitations for the first 100 people who e-mail me at galfry@mintspare.com.

I understand that the site will not be 100% perfect which is why I am asking for your help to get Mintspare ready for the official launch in March. I appreciate all the support from friends, family, the Havelock team, the talented engineers and new team members as well as everyone else that showed their support and criticisms along the way. My hope is that Mintspare will eventually become one of the quickest and easiest ways for people around the world to get direct access to Bitcoin in exchange for their used electronics.

Thank you,
Galfry Puechavy
Founder & CEO of Mintspare

So you don't intend to address any of the specific, business-related concerns we've raised regarding the percentage risk to be borne by investors vs. owners?

[Bobsurplus]

Dear current & future Mintspare Fund holders,

It’s been a wild ride for me since I came up with the idea for Mintspare, “The World’s First bitcoin Trade-In Service”.  I have been personally involved in the Bitcoin world since May 2013 when I bought my first bitcoins on Coinbase and dabbled into the mining scene with GPU’s for a little while. I immediately became consumed and obsessed over the next several months with the implications of learning about the potentials of the protocol and the currency.  One day in September, I was trying to sell my old iPhone for bitcoins and became frustrated with finding a reputable, fast and simple service that would buy used electronics in exchange for bitcoins. That’s when the idea for Mintspare was born. Since then, I have made it my mission to provide this service.

Today I am proud to present to every holder of the Mintspare Fund a private beta test invitation to surf the site, test the features, sell up to 2 items and provide any feedback; compliments, criticisms, bug findings, security flaws, etc (details on our bug bounty program will soon be released). A beta invite will be sent to your Havelock associated e-mail account at 2PM EST. Further, all fund unit holders will receive a 10% bonus per account for this private beta test to be put toward the items you sell. This 10% bonus will be subsidized from my personal bitcoins holding and not from Mintspare’s funds.  If you have friends or family that want to surf the site or sell items or just try the beta, I’m going to reserve additional beta test invitations for the first 100 people who e-mail me at galfry@mintspare.com.

I understand that the site will not be 100% perfect which is why I am asking for your help to get Mintspare ready for the official launch in March. I appreciate all the support from friends, family, the Havelock team, the talented engineers and new team members as well as everyone else that showed their support and criticisms along the way. My hope is that Mintspare will eventually become one of the quickest and easiest ways for people around the world to get direct access to Bitcoin in exchange for their used electronics.

Thank you,
Galfry Puechavy
Founder & CEO of Mintspare

So you don't intend to address any of the specific, business-related concerns we've raised regarding the percentage risk to be borne by investors vs. owners?

Of course not, why would he?

[originalbaby]

I'm not sure why you guys continue to blast this IPO offering. If you don't like it don't invest in it...it's that simple. You either have some sort of personal vendetta against the way he has presented the IPO or you're trolling.  Either way, it's exhausting to continue to read it...you have made your opinion of the offering very clear and it seems Mr. Puechavy has made it clear that there will be no changes to the offering since he continues to not address your questions. To be quite honest, your speculation about what he plans to do from this point on is just as speculative as buying shares in the company. I invested in MS, NeoBee and Seedcoin - not much but a few btc worth - enough to not sweat it if they fail although I wish them all the best and I like what they are doing. How do you even know Mr. Puechavy owns the remaining 80% and plans to fail it purposely? Have you bought shares in MS also and if so have you seen the beta site today?

I wish I had the time and entrepreneurial ability to come up with a bitcoin company myself, but mining is the only thing that I've managed to do thus far although I keep brainstorming. One of the main reasons your bitcoins only have value because of the infrastructure that companies like MS and others build or try to build. Why continue to bash them when you can simply not buy their shares...but a never ending rant is a waste of time to read through.

[Bobsurplus]

I'm not sure why you guys continue to blast this IPO offering. If you don't like it don't invest in it...it's that simple. You either have some sort of personal vendetta against the way he has presented the IPO or you're trolling.  Either way, it's exhausting to continue to read it...you have made your opinion of the offering very clear and it seems Mr. Puechavy has made it clear that there will be no changes to the offering since he continues to not address your questions. To be quite honest, your speculation about what he plans to do from this point on is just as speculative as buying shares in the company. I invested in MS, NeoBee and Seedcoin - not much but a few btc worth - enough to not sweat it if they fail although I wish them all the best and I like what they are doing. How do you even know Mr. Puechavy owns the remaining 80% and plans to fail it purposely? Have you bought shares in MS also and if so have you seen the beta site today?

I wish I had the time and entrepreneurial ability to come up with a bitcoin company myself, but mining is the only thing that I've managed to do thus far although I keep brainstorming. One of the main reasons your bitcoins only have value because of the infrastructure that companies like MS and others build or try to build. Why continue to bash them when you can simply not buy their shares...but a never ending rant is a waste of time to read through.

LOL, its your second post and you think you can call us trolls because we look out for our own..

get a grip man, no scams/ripoffs/shitty ipo's will fly by us.

[originalbaby]

Admitted lurker here and I appreciate you looking out for the community, but I just think that you've gone overboard. It almost feels like yo're ranting to yourself. All I was saying is that I got the point and I think anyone else who reads through this thread gets it too - in fact I think you would be more effective if you were less dramatic about it - a witch hunt makes it look like you have an agenda or you look biased.

[Bobsurplus]

Admitted lurker here and I appreciate you looking out for the community, but I just think that you've gone overboard. It almost feels like yo're ranting to yourself. All I was saying is that I got the point and I think anyone else who reads through this thread gets it too - in fact I think you would be more effective if you were less dramatic about it - a witch hunt makes it look like you have an agenda or you look biased.

I hear ya, maybe I went a bit overboard, but in all fairness I was just looking out for others.

[originalbaby]

All good, I appreciate it and I know others do too - there's a bunch of scams out there. I like Havelock listed companies because they have a decent vet process it seems like. That doesn't mean it's even close to fail proof, but I feel comfortable enough to diversify some of my btc holdings and make some of my crypto work for me....at least I feel like I have a better chance than playing satoshi dice lol. It's all a gamble at the end of the day. I have my reservations, but I like the fact I too have found myself wanting to sell my old iphone 5 after I got the note 3 and I listed it on coingig and bitmit for btc and it was a shitty experience. I like knowing I can sell it immediately in a non-auction/instant offer process now...I think that has value. Whether or not he can execute is a whole other story and is going to be debatable until failure or success.

[Duffer1]

All good, I appreciate it and I know others do too - there's a bunch of scams out there. I like Havelock listed companies because they have a decent vet process it seems like. That doesn't mean it's even close to fail proof, but I feel comfortable enough to diversify some of my btc holdings and make some of my crypto work for me....at least I feel like I have a better chance than playing satoshi dice lol. It's all a gamble at the end of the day. I have my reservations, but I like the fact I too have found myself wanting to sell my old iphone 5 after I got the note 3 and I listed it on coingig and bitmit for btc and it was a shitty experience. I like knowing I can sell it immediately in a non-auction/instant offer process now...I think that has value. Whether or not he can execute is a whole other story and is going to be debatable until failure or success.

Your crypto isn't going to work for you if you invest in pretty much anything Havelock offers.  They've designed it to make sure that won't happen.

[NanoAkron]

Your crypto isn't going to work for you if you invest in pretty much anything Havelock offers.  They've designed it to make sure that won't happen.

I had you on ignore not too long ago, but I'm going to venture out on a limb here and entertain you.

Explain how Havelock is designed to fail.

And as for originalbaby - it's quite clear you haven't analysed their IPO in any detail or you would also see that offering 20% of a startup company for 100% of the financial risk is NOT a good proposition.

[originalbaby]

I have analyzed it and more importantly, I analyzed the business model. I also read the founder's thoughts behind the valuation and even though I'd buy only half of the BS at best, based on the business model it would seem only logical to IPO a minority of the stock at a high valuation because he is going to need to stay btc heavy in the beginning to buy up product until cash flow positive which would leave him with ample equity room to bring on engineering/logistics talent and VC involvement/guidance.  I also looked at Gazelle which I used maybe a year ago for an iPad and the margins on this type of business model are pretty nasty and the overhead can't be much more other than shipping costs. I also like the fact that it may get someone who hasn't owned btc before enough incentive to easily get their feet in the water. Real tangible products for bitcoin which btw could take off pretty nasty if MS opens up to China - staying in btc as a business will allow an edge against competition like Gazelle and others who may not be able to tap into other countries as easy although I admit I don't know what other countries if any at all Gazelle serves. If he tanks it to keep the btc then I will be the first to take it on the chin, but if it were me I feel I would have more to gain by trying to make it work...there is something potential here.

[Duffer1]

Your crypto isn't going to work for you if you invest in pretty much anything Havelock offers.  They've designed it to make sure that won't happen.

I had you on ignore not too long ago, but I'm going to venture out on a limb here and entertain you.

Explain how Havelock is designed to fail.

I didn't say havelock was designed to fail.  I'm saying their offerings are generally designed to ensure that no investor will see a return.  The only people capable of winning here are The Panama Fund S.A. and asset issuers. 

[lynn_402]

That's a great service, I hope you don't mind the trolls who seem to be expecting 300% ROI in a month.
I'd like to know, do you plan on accepting videogames and/or musical instruments?
Thanks

[MintSpare]

That's a great service, I hope you don't mind the trolls who seem to be expecting 300% ROI in a month.
I'd like to know, do you plan on accepting videogames and/or musical instruments?
Thanks

Thank you for your support!

We're looking into accepting additional products in the second quarter of 2014, there are a few goals that are currently of higher priority.

[zevtiefenbach]

That's a great service, I hope you don't mind the trolls who seem to be expecting 300% ROI in a month.

Sorry, who wants 300% ROI in a month? It's never been mentioned on this board and is a dishonest form of argumentation.

Critics of the IPO have been confounded by the fact that Galfry is asking for 100% of the capital required for the project and yet only offering 20 % of the equity. It's an extremely poor ratio (especially since the business is a start-up with no track record) that undermines any investors ability to achieve the potential "upside of the venture".

The other main criticism is the business plan itself which seems to be wildly optimistic and, as Galfry himself admitted, is no longer accurate or representative of the business.

The "trolls" have taken the time to read the prospectus, analyze it and inform the community about the nature of the business venture in a comprehensive and reasoned manner.

[lynn_402]

Sorry, who wants 300% ROI in a month? It's never been mentioned on this board and is a dishonest form of argumentation.

Critics of the IPO have been confounded by the fact that Galfry is asking for 100% of the capital required for the project and yet only offering 20 % of the equity. It's an extremely poor ratio (especially since the business is a start-up with no track record) that undermines any investors ability to achieve the potential "upside of the venture".

The other main criticism is the business plan itself which seems to be wildly optimistic and, as Galfry himself admitted, is no longer accurate or representative of the business.

The "trolls" have taken the time to read the prospectus, analyze it and inform the community about the nature of the business venture in a comprehensive and reasoned manner.

Actually, public investors will start with 40% equity until their initial investments have been paid of. That seems quite fair.
Of course it's risky like all bitcoin-related investment and it might always remain niche, but if it achieves visibility, which by the sleek look of the website, the usefulness of the service and the dedication of the founder I think it will, it could become quite lucrative.

[zevtiefenbach]

Actually, public investors will start with 40% equity until their initial investments have been paid of.

Nope you're wrong. It's 20% equity (equity is the term used to describe ownership) with 40% of revenue (at the discretion of the owner). So investors fund the start-up at 100% of required capital and own 20 % of the company and MAY get 40 % of the revenue (if and when there ever is any after paying his friends salaries etc.)

These terms do not give potential investors an opportunity to share in the upside of the company - even if the venture were successful.