Bruce Wagner and the surrounding drama.

[PinkiePie]

abortion, anonymous direct corporate funding of political campaigns. 

What's wrong with abortion? 

The murdering of babies part.

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[DiaperedDynamo]

Yeah, abortion is the Republicans' way of killing off young Democrat and Indpendent voters. They hide behind wanting to ban it, which tricks the Dems into siding with it.

[Gerken]

abortion, anonymous direct corporate funding of political campaigns. 

What's wrong with abortion? 

The murdering of babies part.

Why do you hate women's rights?

[PinkiePie]

abortion, anonymous direct corporate funding of political campaigns. 

What's wrong with abortion? 

The murdering of babies part.

Why do you hate women's rights?

I'm a libertarian, I believe in rights for every human being, and that includes a right to life.  Men and Women who make the immoral choice to have sex outside of marriage, or married couples who don't want any more children, have plenty of available birth control options that very nearly eliminate the risk of pregnancy.  If they are careless or unlucky enough to get pregnant anyway, that may be a shame, but it doesn't justify murder.

[Gerken]

abortion, anonymous direct corporate funding of political campaigns. 

What's wrong with abortion? 

The murdering of babies part.

Why do you hate women's rights?

I'm a libertarian, I believe in rights for every human being, and that includes a right to life.  Men and Women who make the immoral choice to have sex outside of marriage, or married couples who don't want any more children, have plenty of available birth control options that very nearly eliminate the risk of pregnancy.  If they are careless or unlucky enough to get pregnant anyway, that may be a shame, but it doesn't justify murder.

What makes it murder?  At what point does something deserve rights?  Life begins well before the embryo stage, each sperm and egg is a precursor to life as well.  Should we lock up every woman who has ever had a period, or any man who has ejaculated into a condom(thereby killing the sperm)?

[PinkiePie]

What makes it murder?  At what point does something deserve rights?  Life begins well before the embryo stage, each sperm and egg is a precursor to life as well.  Should we lock up every woman who has ever had a period, or any man who has ejaculated into a condom(thereby killing the sperm)?

Human life begins at conception.  I'm not sure why you are bringing masturbation or periods into this, you do know how babies are made, right?

[DiaperedDynamo]

So are miscarriages manslaughter due to gross negligence. I know it's not a joke and I have no intention of making fun of it, but we should at least answer this question before we move past.

[PinkiePie]

So are miscarriages manslaughter due to gross negligence. I know it's not a joke and I have no intention of making fun of it, but we should at least answer this question before we move past.

No, risk of accidental miscarriage is an unavoidable part of pregnancy and it can be near impossible for a doctor to determine the ultimate cause.

[The_Duke]

In before the " So Bruce Wagner kills babies?" comment!

[DiaperedDynamo]

In before the " So Bruce Wagner kills babies?" comment!

The only way a woman would get his poison miscarriage sperm is if she agreed to carry Bruce and Ed's babies.

[Gerken]

What makes it murder?  At what point does something deserve rights?  Life begins well before the embryo stage, each sperm and egg is a precursor to life as well.  Should we lock up every woman who has ever had a period, or any man who has ejaculated into a condom(thereby killing the sperm)?

Human life begins at conception.  I'm not sure why you are bringing masturbation or periods into this, you do know how babies are made, right?

I'm bringing it up because I want to know who decides what has rights and at what point those rights are established.  Law has established that they don't have rights during the first trimester, nor is it truly "alive" at that point.  

And how would a Libertarian society deal with abortions?

[PinkiePie]

Law has established that they don't have rights during the first trimester, nor is it truly at that point. 

The Supreme Court has made an error in the determination of who deserves full rights and who is a full human being, like when they created the 3/5ths compromise during the Dred Scott case.

And how would a Libertarian society deal with abortions?

The same way they deal with any other murder.

[Rassah]

Law has established that they don't have rights during the first trimester, nor is it truly at that point. 

The Supreme Court has made an error in the determination of who deserves full rights and who is a full human being, like when they created the 3/5ths compromise during the Dred Scott case.

And how would a Libertarian society deal with abortions?

The same way they deal with any other murder.

They would allow the family of the murdered victim decide on the punishment sufficient enough to compensate them for their loss?

LOL this thread just got derailed into the toilet

[indio007]

The Supreme Court has made an error in the determination of who deserves full rights and who is a full human being, like when they created the 3/5ths compromise during the Dred Scott

I've been trying to not pay attention to the endless ignorant rubbish you espouse but I couldn't let this one go by.
The Supreme Court didn't create the 3/5ths compromise the Constitutional Convention did.

[PinkiePie]

^ I don't know about any of that legalese mumbo jumbo, the point is the Supreme Court did nothing to prevent people from being treated as subhumans through most of their history.  Look at what happened to Japanese Americans who were rounded up and tossed into camps during World War I while the courts did nothing.  That entire war was sparked by one assassination, just imagine what the mass killing of children we practice today might spark sometime in the future.

They would allow the family of the murdered victim decide on the punishment sufficient enough to compensate them for their loss?

I was thinking jail.

[greyhawk]

I wonder, what a libertarian jail looks like.  

[PinkiePie]

I wonder, what a libertarian jail looks like.  

Much better than our current system.  Once you release all the people jailed for victimless crimes you have far fewer prisoners to deal with and can treat them more humanely and spend far less in the process.  The privatization helps this too by cutting down on costs and putting an incentive on having a well run, safe facility.  

[Littleshop]

Now this is an off topic thread!  From Bruce to abortion!

[PinkiePie]

If you believe every human being has rights regardless of their age and thus parents must go through the process of birthing regardless of their feelings on the matter due to the responsibility involved in creating said life, then what happens when the baby is born?

I am talking specifically of a right to life.  The rights of children are restricted for obvious reasons, parents must first teach children how to handle them.  We restrict the rights of children far too much currently, but they have to be restricted as a necessary evil.  When I was younger I had some...problems...and my father had to send me to a church therapy camp for a few months to straighten me out.  I really didn't like it at the time and would never have gone on my own, but by the end I learned that what I had been doing was wrong.  That kind of help is what parents are for, and to avoid it is neglect.

Also, if each person has a rights, who gave them those rights and more to the point, if no one gave them, then how do we know what rights we have? If we all agree on the rights, then isn't that what abortion laws are? Agreeing on the rights?

The moral source of our rights is, in my opinion, the Constitution.  It says:  

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights

[Gerken]

So basically you think everyone should  abide by the US's law?  Do you feel they should enforce their law in any country where it isn't now?